The Demiurge Players Should Uncloak
Comments
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Completely agree, and hopefully devs do have separate test and personal accounts.Warbringa said:"I don't think the developers should have to identify themselves through their accounts/rosters unless they choose to do so."
"That being said, I would hope that the devs would have separate accounts for play testing vs. their own personal account which they have to build just like anyone else."
I'm fine with devs' personal accounts getting the odd perk a la mods - they're creating the game after all. But on the whole they shouldn't be able to cruise to a top tier roster without putting effort in.
Assuming test accounts can spin up max champed toons from nothing, there would be no incentive for these accounts to trash the opposition. If the occasional win against a real player is needed to test a mechanic is working properly, so be it.
(Let's not get into "how much playtesting is done before/after a new release" argument here0 -
Ok, serious question Mods: did someone deliberately remove my little conspiracy theory at the end of my previous? It was completely tongue-in-cheek...
More importantly you dropped my last parenthesis, you scallywags.0 -
I really don't have any qualms or ethical concerns about developers.
But when every response ends with.
"hopefully they have separate test and personal blah blah blah..."
LOL
if everyone hopes they follow a specific practice, then the devs should just either acknowledge the fact or clearly state that they don't.
Everyone has one expectation of dev behavior, and I'm pretty sure you would all be disappointed if we ever proved the contrary case.0 -
Fair point. LOL indeed.Phumade said:I really don't have any qualms or ethical concerns about developers.
But when every response ends with.
"hopefully they have separate test and personal blah blah blah..."
LOL
if everyone hopes they follow a specific practice, then the devs should just either acknowledge the fact or clearly state that they don't.
Everyone has one expectation of dev behavior, and I'm pretty sure you would all be disappointed if we ever proved the contrary case.
@Brigby
Will the devs confirm if they have separate accounts for testing and for personal use? And what perks if any are given to their personal accounts?0 -
***None of your posts have been edited. There is an indicator when such an action occurs. Also, don't name call. It's against the rules.***simoncklee said:Ok, serious question Mods: did someone deliberately remove my little conspiracy theory at the end of my previous? It was completely tongue-in-cheek...
More importantly you dropped my last parenthesis, you scallywags.1 -
If the devs have nothing to hide and have been above board all of the time, then what’s the big deal?
By not being transparent, you leave yourself open to criticism.0 -
Looking at the EULA that we are forced to abide by. Seems like Devs should not be allowed to play.
https://d3go.com/legals/
You may not copy (except as expressly permitted by this EULA and the terms and conditions for your mobile device), decompile, reverse-engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code of, modify, or create derivative works of the Game or any part thereof (except as and only to the extent that any forgoing restriction is prohibited by applicable law or to the extent as may be permitted by the licensing terms governing use of any open-source components included with the Game). Any attempt to do so is violation of the rights of D3PA and D3PA’s licensors. If you breach this restriction, you may be subject to prosecution and damages.
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How exactly would that exclude them from playing?Michaelcles said:Looking at the EULA that we are forced to abide by. Seems like Devs should not be allowed to play.
https://d3go.com/legals/
You may not copy (except as expressly permitted by this EULA and the terms and conditions for your mobile device), decompile, reverse-engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code of, modify, or create derivative works of the Game or any part thereof (except as and only to the extent that any forgoing restriction is prohibited by applicable law or to the extent as may be permitted by the licensing terms governing use of any open-source components included with the Game). Any attempt to do so is violation of the rights of D3PA and D3PA’s licensors. If you breach this restriction, you may be subject to prosecution and damages.0 -
Now, we have player(s) trying to role-play as lawyer/jury to get the developers into "legal" trouble.
*Sigh*3 -
Many of us can already see what's going to happen once the developers reveal their IGNs:
Some players are going to role-play as Sherlock Holmes. They are going to analyse every single word the Developers wrote and compare it with other developers' word (including old posts) to find any contradiction. Chances are, they would stalk their rosters as well and take screenshots of their rosters every few hours to detect "irregularities".
Then we would have Ace Attorney(s). They are going to throw the developers a lot of questions about their rosters. If developers stop replying to any question or missed certain questions, this gives them an opportunity to start a conspiracy on how by not answering their questions, they are untrustworthy. Actually, this has already happened. As soon as they find a small mistake, they would magnify the small mistake and turn it into the most heinous crime committed ever in history.
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1)But is it?tiomono said:
They help make a game many of us enjoy (while others just seem to want to complain and criticise nonstop). They do not need credibility on the forums.Daiches said:
Finding out a dev places well in PVE or knows how to climb in PVP would go a long way to credibility.tiomono said:
So much this. There is no reason for them to have to let us know who they are.JHawkInc said:These forums are so hostile that people will find a way to give the devs hell no matter what their rosters look like.
The only thing I see coming from this are players saying the devs don't know what they're doing and pointing out some perceived flaw on their rosters as proof.
The second they are seen doing something not "optimal" or "meta" some person will feel the need to point out they don't have a clue how to make or play their own game. There is enough negative blind hate on these forums already.
raw negativism just blindly directed at everything? Were there no valid points made when people were upset about vaulting? Nobody's concerns with win based was anything but just sourness? nobody who points out bugs is anything but a deconstuctivist? don't like gambit-then your just being mean to the devs? Is there nothing helpful on the subs? No suggestions of merit or character discussions with substance?
This framing the other as less than rational or coherent when you disagree with them, even when you understand them, is in itself not a good thing. hatin' on the haters, and pointing out the mote, etc. Y iz U hoggin all da high roads!
I think the forum is: positive, funny, insightful and educating. I don't find it to be this scummy place where the trolls lie in ambush to pick on the poor developers and publishers and licencors of the game. Nobody gets shouted down by anybody else but the mods
Got a problem with the game; the forum will help. People share their joys and praise of the game here too. I mean, expect it to get sassy, everything from spirited debate, questionable shade, nonsense, meanness, baiting, to acid and fyah! (those are just my posts) but the forum is not so toxic that the developers don't feel safe.
But do they? Can we get some dev and mod feedback on the state of the forums? How could we get better; so you feel better about sharing more? what's a player gotta do to get a sneak peak around here?
2)If I saw b-to-the-rigs in a pvp It would be like I saw a famous person! and I would feel so much better that I knew they were like me. wow this dev has to put up with this time slice and he's climbing same time as me, his roster isn't blow em out 550, they do get it! It makes it a personal connection and I am more likely to give higher rating and trend towards more likely to recommend in those surveys they push out. Cred does matter, marketing.
Can they really be "hunted"? would that be wise?
3)Most companies do not let employees or affiliates enter contest/sweepstakes, etc. I know some casinos don't let employees place bets, bars that don't let you drink. I wouldn't want to race in the NASCAR cup against the Official race team of NASCAR. The conflicts of interest are pretty clear. I don't think that any employees that do play are using company resources to help them play competitively though. Imagine THAT outrage, it would be like 5 thousamabillitimes worse than Tapping, because it would be a really, really, really tinykitty thing to do. The devs would have to be the worst type of human beings, this side of a super skrull with amnesia to throttle rewards and use insider cheats to then gain said prizes.I doubt that they are. It would be really bad if they did and they should stop if they are and again I hope that they aren't.
4) apples are comparable and contrast-able to oranges. Examine the ways things are similar or dissimilar.
"-apples and oranges are both fruits that I pack in my lunch but I like apples better because I don't have to peel them,
--That is like me, I pack granola bars or string cheese in my lunch, but granola bars make more mess...
>You are wrong! I am right! granola bars arn't the same as a ham sandwich!
Likewise; Casinos and MPQ are both companies that make money off of games of chance based on the houses algorithms of RNG. they use complex psychological pressures to keep you in their platform "playing" and spending. It's not a stretch to compare them.
5) I do not think they need to release their names though. Privacy &"this is recreation they don't need that noise" type of concerns. Just tell us that employees don't steal placement prizes, they earn them- there is no special employee token they get for xmas or employee discounts on Starks, let us know that they are among us and back to answering more questions!
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I did not say blind hate was directed at "everything". I said there is enough blind hate on the forums. Yes there are valid concerns and bugs. Oftentimes though they even get buried behind absurd rage at either the game in general or the devs, which is ridiculous.purplemur said:
1)But is it?tiomono said:
They help make a game many of us enjoy (while others just seem to want to complain and criticise nonstop). They do not need credibility on the forums.Daiches said:
Finding out a dev places well in PVE or knows how to climb in PVP would go a long way to credibility.tiomono said:
So much this. There is no reason for them to have to let us know who they are.JHawkInc said:These forums are so hostile that people will find a way to give the devs hell no matter what their rosters look like.
The only thing I see coming from this are players saying the devs don't know what they're doing and pointing out some perceived flaw on their rosters as proof.
The second they are seen doing something not "optimal" or "meta" some person will feel the need to point out they don't have a clue how to make or play their own game. There is enough negative blind hate on these forums already.
raw negativism just blindly directed at everything? Were there no valid points made when people were upset about vaulting? Nobody's concerns with win based was anything but just sourness? nobody who points out bugs is anything but a deconstuctivist? don't like gambit-then your just being mean to the devs? Is there nothing helpful on the subs? No suggestions of merit or character discussions with substance?
This framing the other as less than rational or coherent when you disagree with them, even when you understand them, is in itself not a good thing. hatin' on the haters, and pointing out the mote, etc. Y iz U hoggin all da high roads!
I think the forum is: positive, funny, insightful and educating. I don't find it to be this scummy place where the trolls lie in ambush to pick on the poor developers and publishers and licencors of the game. Nobody gets shouted down by anybody else but the mods Got a problem with the game; the forum will help. People share their joys and praise of the game here too. I mean, expect it to get sassy, everything from spirited debate, questionable shade, nonsense, meanness, baiting, to acid and fyah! (those are just my posts) but the forum is not so toxic that the developers don't feel safe.
But do they? Can we get some dev and mod feedback on the state of the forums? How could we get better; so you feel better about sharing more? what's a player gotta do to get a sneak peak around here?
2)If I saw b-to-the-rigs in a pvp It would be like I saw a famous person! and I would feel so much better that I knew they were like me. wow this dev has to put up with this time slice and he's climbing same time as me, his roster isn't blow em out 550, they do get it! It makes it a personal connection and I am more likely to give higher rating and trend towards more likely to recommend in those surveys they push out. Cred does matter, marketing.
Can they really be "hunted"? would that be wise?
3)Most companies do not let employees or affiliates enter contest/sweepstakes, etc. I know some casinos don't let employees place bets, bars that don't let you drink. I wouldn't want to race in the NASCAR cup against the Official race team of NASCAR. The conflicts of interest are pretty clear. I don't think that any employees that do play are using company resources to help them play competitively though. Imagine THAT outrage, it would be like 5 thousamabillitimes worse than Tapping, because it would be a really, really, really tinykitty thing to do. The devs would have to be the worst type of human beings, this side of a super skrull with amnesia to throttle rewards and use insider cheats to then gain said prizes.I doubt that they are. It would be really bad if they did and they should stop if they are and again I hope that they aren't.
4) apples are comparable and contrast-able to oranges. Examine the ways things are similar or dissimilar.
"-apples and oranges are both fruits that I pack in my lunch but I like apples better because I don't have to peel them,
--That is like me, I pack granola bars or string cheese in my lunch, but granola bars make more mess...
>You are wrong! I am right! granola bars arn't the same as a ham sandwich!
Likewise; Casinos and MPQ are both companies that make money off of games of chance based on the houses algorithms of RNG. they use complex psychological pressures to keep you in their platform "playing" and spending. It's not a stretch to compare them.
5) I do not think they need to release their names though. Privacy &"this is recreation they don't need that noise" type of concerns. Just tell us that employees don't steal placement prizes, they earn them- there is no special employee token they get for xmas or employee discounts on Starks, let us know that they are among us and back to answering more questions!
There are constructive ways to express a need or desire for change without being a jerk but that is often shoved to the side so someone can "vent".
Even in your post you say they could be cheating, but you doubt they are, but if they are they should stop. It's this kind of statement with no proof of any kind behind it that lead people to blind rage.
It's a whole process of thinking that the players know better or could do better than the devs. If that's true get out there and make your own flawless perfect amazing game that will change the whole world and everyone will love and laud as the most amazing achievement ever grasped by a human.
That last paragraph isn't really directed at you but just tossed out there as my personal rant defending a product I enjoy even though it has some flaws.3 -
Can't they just use boxed accounts? They can hit everyone they want in PVP and play all they want in PVE and no one is affected, and no one knows who they are, which is how it should be...
Strongly against them "revealing" themselves to the general playing public. Seems silly.3 -
How do boxed accounts work? Do they see everyone in the game or only other boxed accounts? Do they gain points in versus matches?Sm0keyJ0e said:Can't they just use boxed accounts? They can hit everyone they want in PVP and play all they want in PVE and no one is affected, and no one knows who they are, which is how it should be...
Strongly against them "revealing" themselves to the general playing public. Seems silly.
Personally I would hate If I worked hard on a product I enjoy but could never experience it as I know it's used by pretty much everyone else.
This is an interesting discussion with a lot of things I had never considered before.1 -
tiomono said:
How do boxed accounts work? Do they see everyone in the game or only other boxed accounts? Do they gain points in versus matches?Sm0keyJ0e said:Can't they just use boxed accounts? They can hit everyone they want in PVP and play all they want in PVE and no one is affected, and no one knows who they are, which is how it should be...
Strongly against them "revealing" themselves to the general playing public. Seems silly.
Personally I would hate If I worked hard on a product I enjoy but could never experience it as I know it's used by pretty much everyone else.
This is an interesting discussion with a lot of things I had never considered before.
Boxed accounts are invisible to the player-base but otherwise operate as normal. I would think this is what they're doing already.0 -
So if they win a match the player they beat doesn't lose points? And if they lose do they lose points? If we can't see them we shouldn't be able to retaliate right?Sm0keyJ0e said:tiomono said:
How do boxed accounts work? Do they see everyone in the game or only other boxed accounts? Do they gain points in versus matches?Sm0keyJ0e said:Can't they just use boxed accounts? They can hit everyone they want in PVP and play all they want in PVE and no one is affected, and no one knows who they are, which is how it should be...
Strongly against them "revealing" themselves to the general playing public. Seems silly.
Personally I would hate If I worked hard on a product I enjoy but could never experience it as I know it's used by pretty much everyone else.
This is an interesting discussion with a lot of things I had never considered before.
Boxed accounts are invisible to the player-base but otherwise operate as normal. I would think this is what they're doing already.
This would be a lousy way to test what versus is like for an average player because it would be a vastly different experience.0 -
tiomono said:
So if they win a match the player they beat doesn't lose points? And if they lose do they lose points? If we can't see them we shouldn't be able to retaliate right?Sm0keyJ0e said:tiomono said:
How do boxed accounts work? Do they see everyone in the game or only other boxed accounts? Do they gain points in versus matches?Sm0keyJ0e said:Can't they just use boxed accounts? They can hit everyone they want in PVP and play all they want in PVE and no one is affected, and no one knows who they are, which is how it should be...
Strongly against them "revealing" themselves to the general playing public. Seems silly.
Personally I would hate If I worked hard on a product I enjoy but could never experience it as I know it's used by pretty much everyone else.
This is an interesting discussion with a lot of things I had never considered before.
Boxed accounts are invisible to the player-base but otherwise operate as normal. I would think this is what they're doing already.
This would be a lousy way to test what versus is like for an average player because it would be a vastly different experience.
Correct. No one loses points, no retals are given, and no "Fight back!" notifications will show up, but they gain points for the victory and can climb unchallenged in any clearance level or bracket. They will not appear on leaderboards.
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grunth13 said:Honestly, I doubt any devs play this game in a non work related situation. I know I wouldn't want to do the same thing I do for work on my free time.
Hmm, some contrasting takes here. Do they like the game or not? My guess, they all have personal accounts, some people play more than others. Sandbox accounts are there to test for reported issuestiomono said:How do boxed accounts work? Do they see everyone in the game or only other boxed accounts? Do they gain points in versus matches?
Personally I would hate If I worked hard on a product I enjoy but could never experience it as I know it's used by pretty much everyone else.
This is an interesting discussion with a lot of things I had never considered before.
This seems to have all stemmed from Will's answer that they consider "How expert players at the company feel about the character" in regards to a characters perception when considering rebalances.
I think we're taking the "expert players" thing out of proportion. He doesn't say they are high level, or that they have the science down of how to place top 1 of pve and pvp. He just says they have knowledge of the characters. Its a little arrogant to need them to prove their credentials by showing their rosters.
And besides, it is 1 of 4 listed criteria, the others being the forums, surveys, and rankings. So basically he's saying that they look for all user feedback, and also ask around the office.
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Whilst I don't agree that any employees etc should 'decloak', and come into the open, to 'justify' to the masses (or the few) that they play at all levels of the game, I would say - how is this different to knowing the name of say Mods on the forum, or frequent posters? I mean, I can find many specific players, simply by knowing a) they play a lot and b) their names from the forum. It wouldn't make a massive difference to them either way. As mentioned previously, one such employee was in a well known, 'top' alliance, and a lot of people knew it was him, and I don't think he was particularly hindered.
That said, I don't think they should have to at all, and it's cool if they do or don't. But to assume that their playing experiences would drastically change if we knew? If they have a level 500+ Gambit, I know I won't be hitting them in PvP anytime soon! PvE wouldn't be affected at all. Not like I will grind more or anything to beat them.
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