OSCORP HEROIC - MAY 8-14

nyark

I've said this from the beginning, let us unlucky folks join a new bracket at least. I just want a fair shot at earning the Daken covers instead of being dumped in a 5k point hole on the first day due to no fault of my own.

Just keep playing and maybe it will work itself out? I have not seen any evidence that that will happen.
The developers screwed up so now I have to play 3 times as much as usual to probably not even get in the top 100?
The developers screwed up so even if I do try and grind it out the scaling mechanics will screw me over even worse by the end of the event? These do not sound like solutions to me. I guess I'm joining the "no reason to play" camp

Unknown

Bowgentle wrote:

Sumilea wrote:

The base node values are currently as follows:-

Secure Perimeter: 40
S.H.I.E.L.D. Research: 60
Rope-a-Dope: 200
Iso-8 underground: 100
Freedom of the Press: 160
Father's Day: 220
The Brute Squad: 240
Rampage: 220
Smash and Grab: 180

I would not say they totally out of line of what we normally see.

If Brute Squad is base value 240 then rubberbanding sure as hell isn't based on anything sensible.
I've done exactly ONE mission in the sub 12 hours ago (Rampage) and my Brute Squad is worth a ginormous 888 points.
That'll do me wonders trying to catch up to the 9000 points my main leader has.

Ever since The Hunt they've been trying to reduce the effect of rubberbanding so that you don't get the Simulator Basic scenario where playing the 3 essential missions twice puts you at #10 in your sub bracket.

I joined well after all the huge lead guys are gone from brackets, and I see a guy with 7000 point in my sub bracket. Yesterday the huge lead guys have about a 4000 point lead on my sub bracket leader, now it's down to about half. By the time evening hits it'll be down to 1000. Unfortunately, 1000 is still not enough for fairness, as that is a decisive margin of victory at this point. After 3 more cycles we'd expect the lead to shrink down to 125, and that might be possible, but I don't see the city going for 4 refreshes.

Bowgentle

Phantron, the point is: I don't want to have to play three full refreshes to try to catch up to someone because I've started in a 5000 point hole due to reasons outside of my control.
You are obviously fine with your enemies constantly being at 400, but most of us are not, so doing full clears for three refreshes is out of the question.

Demiurge_Will

* The change that was made at 7 PM last night was to reduce the speed of rubber-banding, which was set too high, and to increase the global score target, which was set too low.
** People that played through everything immediately at 3 PM are at a disadvantage to those who started after the change (as per usual, the way rubber-banding works).
** People that started playing after the change have advantages and disadvantages relative to those who played through everything to completion before, but close to, the change. They're capable of earning more points in total. But before the change, you would earn points faster when you were farther behind. So starting after the change was worse for people that play a few missions, but starting after the change was still better for those who are competing for the very top spots.
** There are cases that shift the advantage around in complex ways for people who played during the change. If you played through everything a couple times before the change and a couple times after, you're at a disadvantage to someone who started at the same time as you and played everything to completion before the change. It depends on exactly what you played when whether the change was good or bad for you.
** Rubber-banding compensates for that advantage as the event goes on. At 10 PM last night, it was easy to tell who'd benefited from the extra rubber-banding and who hadn't. As the morning has gone on, the lead that the folks who got extra rubber-banding have over other players has greatly diminished. It looks like it'll be gone in another few resets.

My expectation is that over the next day or so, we'll all start to see what Sumilea saw, and that persistent and well-timed play will determine who ultimately ends up on top. We're also still investigating if there's something safe that can be done to even out the advantage the change gave some folks, in case it doesn't continue to evaporate, or in case there's something very safe (that we haven't thought of yet) that we can do right now.

Unknown

Bowgentle wrote:

Phantron, the point is: I don't want to have to play three full refreshes to try to catch up to someone because I've started in a 5000 point hole due to reasons outside of my control.
You are obviously fine with your enemies constantly being at 400, but most of us are not, so doing full clears for three refreshes is out of the question.

Even without that 5000 point hole whoever is on top is still going to play 3 full refreshes anyway to try to build a lead. The top of my main bracket is 8085 and there were nobody that had access to the extra value missions in my main bracket. Looking at the top alliance scores the highest individual score I see is 11K (one). So if 5000 is the lead of the top person overall, then whoever is in my main bracket still has a lead of 2000, and that's a lot when you consider how little the missions are worth in general.

Unknown

Demiurge_Will wrote:

* The change that was made at 7 PM last night was to reduce the speed of rubber-banding, which was set too high, and to increase the global score target, which was set too low.
** People that played through everything immediately at 3 PM are at a disadvantage to those who started after the change (as per usual, the way rubber-banding works).
** People that started playing after the change have advantages and disadvantages relative to those who played through everything to completion before, but close to, the change. They're capable of earning more points in total. But before the change, you would earn points faster when you were farther behind. So starting after the change was worse for people that play a few missions, but starting after the change was still better for those who are competing for the very top spots.
** There are cases that shift the advantage around in complex ways for people who played during the change. If you played through everything a couple times before the change and a couple times after, you're at a disadvantage to someone who started at the same time as you and played everything to completion before the change. It depends on exactly what you played when whether the change was good or bad for you.
** Rubber-banding compensates for that advantage as the event goes on. At 10 PM last night, it was easy to tell who'd benefited from the extra rubber-banding and who hadn't. As the morning has gone on, the lead that the folks who got extra rubber-banding have over other players has greatly diminished. It looks like it'll be gone in another few resets.

My expectation is that over the next day or so, we'll all start to see what Sumilea saw, and that persistent and well-timed play will determine who ultimately ends up on top. We're also still investigating if there's something safe that can be done to even out the advantage the change gave some folks, in case it doesn't continue to evaporate, or in case there's something very safe (that we haven't thought of yet) that we can do right now.

The gain from the early advantage shrinks each refresh but it looks like the city sub bracket is going to end in 1 or 2 more refreshes at the most. Historically new sub brackets use the new overall sub bracket leader, and if the city sub bracket ends in 2 more refreshes, the early advantage is still decisive. I estimate the early advantage will be in the 500-1000 range and based on the current main bracket mission values, I don't see how you can make up that amount unless the main bracket mission turns out to be much higher points.

Unknown

Demiurge_Will wrote:

* The change that was made at 7 PM last night was to reduce the speed of rubber-banding, which was set too high, and to increase the global score target, which was set too low.
** People that played through everything immediately at 3 PM are at a disadvantage to those who started after the change (as per usual, the way rubber-banding works).
** People that started playing after the change have advantages and disadvantages relative to those who played through everything to completion before, but close to, the change. They're capable of earning more points in total. But before the change, you would earn points faster when you were farther behind. So starting after the change was worse for people that play a few missions, but starting after the change was still better for those who are competing for the very top spots.
** There are cases that shift the advantage around in complex ways for people who played during the change. If you played through everything a couple times before the change and a couple times after, you're at a disadvantage to someone who started at the same time as you and played everything to completion before the change. It depends on exactly what you played when whether the change was good or bad for you.
** Rubber-banding compensates for that advantage as the event goes on. At 10 PM last night, it was easy to tell who'd benefited from the extra rubber-banding and who hadn't. As the morning has gone on, the lead that the folks who got extra rubber-banding have over other players has greatly diminished. It looks like it'll be gone in another few resets.

My expectation is that over the next day or so, we'll all start to see what Sumilea saw, and that persistent and well-timed play will determine who ultimately ends up on top. We're also still investigating if there's something safe that can be done to even out the advantage the change gave some folks, in case it doesn't continue to evaporate, or in case there's something very safe (that we haven't thought of yet) that we can do right now.

This does nothing to address the fact that to have any hope of catching the humongous lead people who played before the change built up, those who were put in an UNFAIR hole will have to grind something like 4X more nodes and face massive scaling, not only for this event, but for the next several events.

Simply saying, "well, it'll work itself out if you just play perfectly" is not an acceptable solution.

How on earth did you think that making massive changes to point totals and point goals a few hours into an event would not blow up in your face? It's mind-boggling.

Unknown

Demiurge_Will wrote:

** People that started playing after the change have advantages and disadvantages relative to those who played through everything to completion before, but close to, the change. They're capable of earning more points in total.

Howzat?

Unknown

gamar wrote:

Oh god Oscorp Heroic for Daken AND THEY WONT SHOW US HIS ABILITIES

Well, if a character is properly tested before he is released there is no reason for nerfs/buffs.

Personally, I find it lame. I am called to fight for a hero I know almost nothing about. At least we know his health level.

Unknown

Realistically, if you joined midchange and started off down 5000 points, and you and the leader both play ideally, you can't possibly catch him. Also, alliances who had many members play pre-change are likely uncatchable.

Unknown

Just as I said, quit your whining and wait for the entire event to play out before you come to some conclusions.

elusive

wathombe wrote:

How on earth did you think that making massive changes to point totals and point goals a few hours into an event would not blow up in your face? It's mind-boggling.

I think that, by this point, it's obvious that the developers aren't exactly the best in the world. I'd be more shocked if an event went off without a hitch.

Still playing, though. Just not spending.

Unknown

nyark wrote:

I've said this from the beginning, let us unlucky folks join a new bracket at least. I just want a fair shot at earning the Daken covers instead of being dumped in a 5k point hole on the first day due to no fault of my own.

I'm sorry but how would D3 begin to sort out the "unlucky"? I'm pretty sure D3 would have to build a unique one-off algorithm just to weed out who deserves a second chance or not. This would be a tremendous amount of work and seems just unreasonable.

The only real way to equalize everyone is to restart the entire event and give everyone a new fair shot at winning. Sure, there'll be complaints from those on the top of the leaderboards now, but they've already earn some spoils and I'm sure they'll live to grind again.

Demiurge_Will wrote:

We're also still investigating if there's something safe that can be done to even out the advantage the change gave some folks, in case it doesn't continue to evaporate, or in case there's something very safe (that we haven't thought of yet) that we can do right now.

Demiurge_Will, I sincerely appreciate the in-depth response but can you please give us a simple reason why the event can't just be restarted?

Unknown

Knock3r wrote:

Demiurge_Will, I sincerely appreciate the in-depth response but can you please give us a simple reason why the event can't just be restarted?

A million times, this.

Unknown

Demiurge_Will wrote:

My expectation is that over the next day or so, we'll all start to see what Sumilea saw, and that persistent and well-timed play will determine who ultimately ends up on top. We're also still investigating if there's something safe that can be done to even out the advantage the change gave some folks, in case it doesn't continue to evaporate, or in case there's something very safe (that we haven't thought of yet) that we can do right now.

The solution you guys are pointing to still looks to be grind as many nodes as you can. can you comment on how this will effect our scaling? do you plan on nerfing scaling or disabling scaling for the event altogether?

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

Just as I said, quit your whining and wait for the entire event to play out before you come to some conclusions.

I am guessing you are one of the folks with 10K points already. you just dont want to lose your advantage

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Bowgentle wrote:

Sumilea wrote:

The base node values are currently as follows:-

Secure Perimeter: 40
S.H.I.E.L.D. Research: 60
Rope-a-Dope: 200
Iso-8 underground: 100
Freedom of the Press: 160
Father's Day: 220
The Brute Squad: 240
Rampage: 220
Smash and Grab: 180

I would not say they totally out of line of what we normally see.

If Brute Squad is base value 240 then rubberbanding sure as hell isn't based on anything sensible.
I've done exactly ONE mission in the sub 12 hours ago (Rampage) and my Brute Squad is worth a ginormous 888 points.
That'll do me wonders trying to catch up to the 9000 points my main leader has.

Ever since The Hunt they've been trying to reduce the effect of rubberbanding so that you don't get the Simulator Basic scenario where playing the 3 essential missions twice puts you at #10 in your sub bracket.

I might have the node values wrong but did a couple of nodes and Secure Perimeter stayed at 40. However the length of the band is huge now and you probably have to be around 20K points down to see the full 10 times effect. Take the simulator, easy reach maximum rubber banding in under 3 refreshes the time before last but the one which was just run it did not even reach half that in that time.

This is why I think we gotten nowhere near the last few progression rewards the average scaling people are seeing now is about half what it was a month ago.

Unknown

Tsk, tsk. You must be new around here. We cannot restart the event. That would be too fair and too simple. No, this a mpq problem; and thus, it requires a mpq solution.

Eureka. Tiny kitties for everyone...well everyone who did not gain an enormous advantage over everyone else.

But seriously, despite the hiccup, this my favorite heroic mode yet with all the buffed heroes. This makes up for the limited roster and makes the pve playable. Too bad the progress bar is not for a Patch cover, like the Hulk in The Hunt.

Hmmmm....I know a way to ease the tension if this pve...can you say free Patch cover when progress bar is full?

Unknown

I wish someone who was lucky and grinded the nodes and has the advantage was around to share how much points their nodes are worth.. because thinking about it, there is a chance that even when their nodes reset, because they are so far ahead the nodes are worth like only 100 points which over the course of an event could give us a chance to catch up...

maybe....

Unknown

ender wrote:

Toxicadam wrote:

Just as I said, quit your whining and wait for the entire event to play out before you come to some conclusions.

I am guessing you are one of the folks with 10K points already. you just dont want to lose your advantage

Nope .. I work all day and didn't get to join until 8pm EST. I just get tired of how knee-jerk this forum can be sometimes. The entitled attitude of some people is ridiculous.