Roster Slot Discount *Updated (1/8/18)

The rockett

At 213 slots now and bumped up to 230. Might go to 240.  Need to think about it 

_RiO_

Punisher5784 said:

TheZeusBear said:

@Brigby

If I bought around 40 roster slots over the past 2-3 days, is it possible to get a reimbursement from CS? Assuming if you were in the office, a sneak peak would have been shown of an upcoming sale which would have let me wait until today to splurge. 
Big difference in spending 40,000 hp and spending 32,000.

Idk if CS will refund HP but in my experience if you purchased HP within 24hrs prior to a Sale, they gave you the difference. Unfortunately if you made the purchase more than 2 days ago than they denied you. 

Hopefully since this is the first time in the history of MPQ that they've ran a Roster Slot sale that they will accommodate players who recently made slot purchases. We'll see

There are certain other things of a more ethical and legal matter at play here as well.
Steam players got a massive sale on HP going over the course of the winter sale, which many consider a form of reparation for years of neglect. You can bet many players jumped on that opportunity, just as well as you can bet that many put that HP towards expanding their roster slots, which are after all the primary purchase target for HP.

And wouldn't you know it; ju---st on the cusp of that sale ending, when most of those players are expected to have burned that HP on purchasing their slots, the slots are reduced in price.

If HP were actual money, then this kind of thing would be thoroughly illegal in atleast the EU. As it is, this effectively devalues the special 'on sale' status of HP from before the price-cut and that kind of thing is a big no-no. You are normally not allowed to advertise an even bigger sale hot on the heels of another sale, because it devalues the earlier sale and as such the earlier sale is then considered false advertising.

Someone should actually have the guts to put this to the test in court sometime. Because I'm willing to bet any judge worth his salt would immediately conclude that these type of virtual currencies are not stand-alone products; services; or digital content, but actually just a simple intermediary step in the purchase process.


I had a hunch D3Go would pull this tiniest of microscopic kitties at the last brink -- These jokers have done similar unethical things that operate on the fringe of what's legally allowed before. --  which is why I held off on purchasing the 30.000 HP bulk package. Good thing I did!

//Removed Inappropriate Content -Brigby

DarthDeVo

_RiO_ said:

Punisher5784 said:

TheZeusBear said:

@Brigby

If I bought around 40 roster slots over the past 2-3 days, is it possible to get a reimbursement from CS? Assuming if you were in the office, a sneak peak would have been shown of an upcoming sale which would have let me wait until today to splurge. 
Big difference in spending 40,000 hp and spending 32,000.

Idk if CS will refund HP but in my experience if you purchased HP within 24hrs prior to a Sale, they gave you the difference. Unfortunately if you made the purchase more than 2 days ago than they denied you. 

Hopefully since this is the first time in the history of MPQ that they've ran a Roster Slot sale that they will accommodate players who recently made slot purchases. We'll see

There are certain other things of a more ethical and legal matter at play here as well.
Steam players got a massive sale on HP going over the course of the winter sale. And wouldn't you know it; ju---st on the cusp of that sale ending, roster slots, i.e. , the primary purchase target for HP, are reduced in price.

If HP were actual money, then this kind of thing would be thoroughly illegal in atleast the EU. As it is, this effectively devalues the special 'on sale' status of HP from before the price-cut and that kind of thing is a big no-no. You are normally not allowed to advertise an even bigger sale hot on the heels of another sale, because it devalues the earlier sale and as such the earlier sale is then considered false advertising.

Someone should actually have the guts to put this to the test in court sometime. Because I'm willing to bet any judge worth his salt would immediately conclude that these type of virtual currencies are not stand-alone products; services; or digital content, but actually just a simple intermediary step in the purchase process.


I had a hunch D3Go would pull this tiniest of microscopic kitties at the last brink -- These jokers have done similar unethical things that operate on the fringe of what's legally allowed before. --  which is why I held off on purchasing the 30.000 HP bulk package. Good thing I did!

//Removed Inappropriate Content -Brigby

I'm no lawyer, but I still think it would be hard proving the activity to be outright illegal. Maybe if the only thing you could do with HP was buy roster slots (and I do grant you that for most players, it probably is where they likely use their HP the most), you would have an easier case.

But you can use it for shields in PvP, to buy healthpacks or boosts when you run out of them, to clear out vaults, and buy token packs or special deals like the Heroes for Hire store.

BoyWonder1914

Things like this are always hard decisions for me, because I don't need roster slots at this particular moment. Guess I'm gonna start some serious XP farming with 1s and 2s until I can use the slot for something more worthy. 

_RiO_

DarthDeVo said:

I'm no lawyer, but I still think it would be hard proving the activity to be outright illegal. Maybe if the only thing you could do with HP was buy roster slots (and I do grant you that for most players, it probably is where they likely use their HP the most), you would have an easier case. 

But you can use it for shields in PvP, to buy healthpacks or boosts when you run out of them, to clear out vaults, and buy token packs or special deals like the Heroes for Hire store.

Iirc, there was actually precedent for this type of virtual currency being considered as part of a single chain of transaction leading to an end-purchase -- i.e. , being considered as intermediary -- if the bulk of said virtual currency was immediately put to use for the purchase of the actually desired digital content.

I think it was somehow related to Runescape, but don't pin me on that.

DarthDeVo

_RiO_ said:

DarthDeVo said:

I'm no lawyer, but I still think it would be hard proving the activity to be outright illegal. Maybe if the only thing you could do with HP was buy roster slots (and I do grant you that for most players, it probably is where they likely use their HP the most), you would have an easier case. 

But you can use it for shields in PvP, to buy healthpacks or boosts when you run out of them, to clear out vaults, and buy token packs or special deals like the Heroes for Hire store.

Iirc, there was actually precedent for this type of virtual currency being considered as part of a single chain of transaction leading to an end-purchase -- i.e. , being considered as intermediary -- if the bulk of said virtual currency was immediately put to use for the purchase of the actually desired digital content.

I think it was somehow related to Runescape, but don't pin me on that.

That could be, I have no idea. I don't follow these sorts of cases. 

I guess the way I see it is, pretend you have a Player A and Player B. Suppose they both bought a Stark for $50 on Digital Day. On New Year's Day, Player A decides to buy several 40 packs from various vaults and go shield crazy in PvP. Player B just buys a whole bunch of roster slots. 

Then two days later, the discount for roster slots is announced. Player B asks for a refund for the difference spent in roster slots, and gets it. What sort of recourse, if any, does Player A receive? Maybe he had rotten luck and only pulled 2*s and 3*s from his 40 packs. That could be considered a waste of HP. Should he get some sort of refund? Maybe he was trying for 1200 in PvP and no matter how many times he tried to hop, he was always hit and never ended up getting there. That could also be considered a waste. Is he due a refund? 

I honestly have no real answers for these questions, and am not sure what the "correct, legal" answer would be. I'm simply just asking, and trying to determine that if some players feel like they unfairly wasted HP and feel due a refund, then where would the line be drawn? 

I recently bought a Switch with Christmas money. If Best Buy would have put it on sale two days later and I could have saved 50 bucks, I doubt they'd open the cash drawer and hand me $50 if I went to their store and showed them my receipt. Is it annoying to be on the wrong end of bad timing? Sure. But sometimes thems the breaks. 

bluewolf

DarthDeVo said:

_RiO_ said:

DarthDeVo said:

I'm no lawyer, but I still think it would be hard proving the activity to be outright illegal. Maybe if the only thing you could do with HP was buy roster slots (and I do grant you that for most players, it probably is where they likely use their HP the most), you would have an easier case. 

But you can use it for shields in PvP, to buy healthpacks or boosts when you run out of them, to clear out vaults, and buy token packs or special deals like the Heroes for Hire store.

Iirc, there was actually precedent for this type of virtual currency being considered as part of a single chain of transaction leading to an end-purchase -- i.e. , being considered as intermediary -- if the bulk of said virtual currency was immediately put to use for the purchase of the actually desired digital content.

I think it was somehow related to Runescape, but don't pin me on that.

I recently bought a Switch with Christmas money. If Best Buy would have put it on sale two days later and I could have saved 50 bucks, I doubt they'd open the cash drawer and hand me $50 if I went to their store and showed them my receipt. Is it annoying to be on the wrong end of bad timing? Sure. But sometimes thems the breaks. 

Actually, if you go to a physical store that puts an item on sale shortly after you buy it, standard policy is to give you the sale price / a refund on your card. Otherwise you could return the item and just buy it again at the sale price. 

I am not suggesting that anyone should or will get reimbursed the difference in HP spent on roster slots now vs 2 days ago.  But Best Buy would give you a refund for the difference if you asked.

DarthDeVo

bluewolf said:

DarthDeVo said:

_RiO_ said:

DarthDeVo said:

I'm no lawyer, but I still think it would be hard proving the activity to be outright illegal. Maybe if the only thing you could do with HP was buy roster slots (and I do grant you that for most players, it probably is where they likely use their HP the most), you would have an easier case. 

But you can use it for shields in PvP, to buy healthpacks or boosts when you run out of them, to clear out vaults, and buy token packs or special deals like the Heroes for Hire store.

Iirc, there was actually precedent for this type of virtual currency being considered as part of a single chain of transaction leading to an end-purchase -- i.e. , being considered as intermediary -- if the bulk of said virtual currency was immediately put to use for the purchase of the actually desired digital content.

I think it was somehow related to Runescape, but don't pin me on that.

I recently bought a Switch with Christmas money. If Best Buy would have put it on sale two days later and I could have saved 50 bucks, I doubt they'd open the cash drawer and hand me $50 if I went to their store and showed them my receipt. Is it annoying to be on the wrong end of bad timing? Sure. But sometimes thems the breaks. 

Actually, if you go to a physical store that puts an item on sale shortly after you buy it, standard policy is to give you the sale price / a refund on your card. Otherwise you could return the item and just buy it again at the sale price. 

I am not suggesting that anyone should or will get reimbursed the difference in HP spent on roster slots now vs 2 days ago.  But Best Buy would give you a refund for the difference if you asked.

 Huh. Shows how much I know. I mean, I'm not sure if I've ever had something similar actually happen in real life. If it did, I probably chalked it up to bad luck. 

They have to have some sort of qualifier on it though, like the item in question must have been bought only a certain number of hours/days prior to when it went on sale. Like, less than a week,  I would think. Otherwise, I could buy, say a TV, then open their ad three months later, see it's on sale, and get a refund for the difference? That seems highly unlikely. 

And as far as returning it then buying it at the sale price goes, I might have to pay a restocking fee and if it was already opened, I may only get a portion of a refund, provided the item was in no way defective. 

_RiO_

I put in a ticket with CS. Lets see what they have to say on the matter.

Atleast I was honest with them and only asked for 1600 HP reimbursed. That is the 200 HP difference on 8 out of the 10 slots I opened with the HP from the purchased Avengers battlekit DLC. 2 out of those 10 slots I would realistically have had to open before the discounted roster slot prices anyway, as I used them to hold two 4* covers that were already queued and close to expiration.

Hope that counts for something, atleast.

Yepyep

LifeofAgony said:

...

Yet another uncommunicated change;  just a surprise.

Uncertainty is a sure-fire way to get people to spend/invest money in hopes of a little security.

There is absolutely no incentive anywhere in this game (or other FTP products that I have encountered) for D3 to communicate upcoming changes. Consider the guy upthread who just bought 25 slots a day or two ago (allow me to call him John, for this analysis). If John had been informed of this sale he would have waited and D3 would have been $x.xx poorer (or whatever applicable currency). By keeping it secret until release, they get both John's money and whatever splurge-spending and goodwill the sale engenders. It is unlikely that John will abstain from purchasing more once the sale is announced, too. Opacity is a win-win for them with relatively little marginal ill-will risked.

LifeofAgony

Yepyep said:

LifeofAgony said:

...

Yet another uncommunicated change;  just a surprise.

Uncertainty is a sure-fire way to get people to spend/invest money in hopes of a little security.

There is absolutely no incentive anywhere in this game (or other FTP products that I have encountered) for D3 to communicate upcoming changes. Consider the guy upthread who just bought 25 slots a day or two ago (allow me to call him John, for this analysis). If John had been informed of this sale he would have waited and D3 would have been $x.xx poorer (or whatever applicable currency). By keeping it secret until release, they get both John's money and whatever splurge-spending and goodwill the sale engenders. It is unlikely that John will abstain from purchasing more once the sale is announced, too. Opacity is a win-win for them with relatively little marginal ill-will risked.

So what’s the rationale for not publishing an app update?  Those have to be submitted to the respective app stores in advance and those updates don’t include sales.

And that money thought cuts both ways;  for John who may have spent 2 days earlier, he will probably be much more hesitant to spend in the future, and in the same decision you’ve pissed off Tom Jane and Harry who won’t spend now because they didn’t get a heads up.

Its not a long-term sustainable model;  there’s a reason every major retailer releases their Black Friday deals WEEKS ahead of time.  It’s better to have an informed consumer base then to spring things on them.

_RiO_

bluewolf said:

Actually, if you go to a physical store that puts an item on sale shortly after you buy it, standard policy is to give you the sale price / a refund on your card. Otherwise you could return the item and just buy it again at the sale price. 

I am not suggesting that anyone should or will get reimbursed the difference in HP spent on roster slots now vs 2 days ago.  But Best Buy would give you a refund for the difference if you asked.

Furthermore, if you consider the HP as intermediary for the actual purchase target; roster slots, then the actual thing that was on sale on Steam were those roster slots. In that case, the subsequent new year's discount on roster prices, combined with the time remaining on the Steam sale, makes for a window of time where the previous Steam sale is de-valued by an even greater price reduction a few days later.

And that particular case; i.e. a limited-time sale being matched or outdone by another sale directly following or shortly after by the same seller, who has prior knowledge of the upcoming second sale, is iirc residing on a list of unfair business-to-consumer commercial practices banned by the EU.

So at best, what's going on here is ethically shady. But at worst, it's actually full-on illegal.


(Oops; double-post. That should've been an edit.)
[...]
(There's no actual user-surfaced remove/delete option for a posted comment, is there? )

Yepyep

LifeofAgony said:

Yepyep said:

LifeofAgony said:

...

Yet another uncommunicated change;  just a surprise.

Uncertainty is a sure-fire way to get people to spend/invest money in hopes of a little security.

There is absolutely no incentive anywhere in this game (or other FTP products that I have encountered) for D3 to communicate upcoming changes. Consider the guy upthread who just bought 25 slots a day or two ago (allow me to call him John, for this analysis). If John had been informed of this sale he would have waited and D3 would have been $x.xx poorer (or whatever applicable currency). By keeping it secret until release, they get both John's money and whatever splurge-spending and goodwill the sale engenders. It is unlikely that John will abstain from purchasing more once the sale is announced, too. Opacity is a win-win for them with relatively little marginal ill-will risked.

So what’s the rationale for not publishing an app update?  Those have to be submitted to the respective app stores in advance and those updates don’t include sales.

And that money thought cuts both ways;  for John who may have spent 2 days earlier, he will probably be much more hesitant to spend in the future, and in the same decision you’ve pissed off Tom Jane and Harry who won’t spend now because they didn’t get a heads up.

Its not a long-term sustainable model;  there’s a reason every major retailer releases their Black Friday deals WEEKS ahead of time.  It’s better to have an informed consumer base then to spring things on them.

I have no rationale for opacity about the update. And to be clear: I COMPLETELY share in your disgust about these matters...

And I agree with both your latter two paragraphs. I think it is evidence that they know this is no long-term model -- that they need to strike while the iron is hot because this enterprise is more like a gig than a job, or polluting the environment in anticipation of future regulation. Or breaking the law if you have priced the risk and know that you'll come out ahead. Look at the big banks -- much of the wrong things they do they know are wrong but they also know that when the law comes knocking nobody will go to jail and a token fine and public reprimand is the worst they'll suffer... Meanwhile, they count their money while waiting to see if the law ever does show up.

Nick441234

LifeofAgony said:

Yepyep said:

LifeofAgony said:

...

Yet another uncommunicated change;  just a surprise.

Uncertainty is a sure-fire way to get people to spend/invest money in hopes of a little security.

There is absolutely no incentive anywhere in this game (or other FTP products that I have encountered) for D3 to communicate upcoming changes. Consider the guy upthread who just bought 25 slots a day or two ago (allow me to call him John, for this analysis). If John had been informed of this sale he would have waited and D3 would have been $x.xx poorer (or whatever applicable currency). By keeping it secret until release, they get both John's money and whatever splurge-spending and goodwill the sale engenders. It is unlikely that John will abstain from purchasing more once the sale is announced, too. Opacity is a win-win for them with relatively little marginal ill-will risked.

So what’s the rationale for not publishing an app update?  Those have to be submitted to the respective app stores in advance and those updates don’t include sales.

And that money thought cuts both ways;  for John who may have spent 2 days earlier, he will probably be much more hesitant to spend in the future, and in the same decision you’ve pissed off Tom Jane and Harry who won’t spend now because they didn’t get a heads up.

Its not a long-term sustainable model;  there’s a reason every major retailer releases their Black Friday deals WEEKS ahead of time.  It’s better to have an informed consumer base then to spring things on them.

Whether you are John, Tom, Jane, or Harry, you are always going to need roster slots or the game ends as soon as you fill your last one. The only way John wont buy more rosters slots, even if he is annoyed, is if he quits the game entirely. 

Pongie

DarthDeVo said:

bluewolf said:

DarthDeVo said:

_RiO_ said:

DarthDeVo said:

I'm no lawyer, but I still think it would be hard proving the activity to be outright illegal. Maybe if the only thing you could do with HP was buy roster slots (and I do grant you that for most players, it probably is where they likely use their HP the most), you would have an easier case. 

But you can use it for shields in PvP, to buy healthpacks or boosts when you run out of them, to clear out vaults, and buy token packs or special deals like the Heroes for Hire store.

Iirc, there was actually precedent for this type of virtual currency being considered as part of a single chain of transaction leading to an end-purchase -- i.e. , being considered as intermediary -- if the bulk of said virtual currency was immediately put to use for the purchase of the actually desired digital content.

I think it was somehow related to Runescape, but don't pin me on that.

I recently bought a Switch with Christmas money. If Best Buy would have put it on sale two days later and I could have saved 50 bucks, I doubt they'd open the cash drawer and hand me $50 if I went to their store and showed them my receipt. Is it annoying to be on the wrong end of bad timing? Sure. But sometimes thems the breaks. 

Actually, if you go to a physical store that puts an item on sale shortly after you buy it, standard policy is to give you the sale price / a refund on your card. Otherwise you could return the item and just buy it again at the sale price. 

I am not suggesting that anyone should or will get reimbursed the difference in HP spent on roster slots now vs 2 days ago.  But Best Buy would give you a refund for the difference if you asked.

 Huh. Shows how much I know. I mean, I'm not sure if I've ever had something similar actually happen in real life. If it did, I probably chalked it up to bad luck. 

They have to have some sort of qualifier on it though, like the item in question must have been bought only a certain number of hours/days prior to when it went on sale. Like, less than a week,  I would think. Otherwise, I could buy, say a TV, then open their ad three months later, see it's on sale, and get a refund for the difference? That seems highly unlikely. 

And as far as returning it then buying it at the sale price goes, I might have to pay a restocking fee and if it was already opened, I may only get a portion of a refund, provided the item was in no way defective. 

To void the restocking fee, you could always buy the item again at the sale price, and then return the unopened item with the original receipt. Doesn’t work if there are unique item codes/serial on the receipt though. 

Some credit card now offer price protection. If an item you purchased dropped in price at the same store (difference sometimes need to be st least a certain amount, some also put a cap on maximum amount) over a certain period (typically 6 months), you could claim back the difference. 

DarthDeVo

Pongie said:

DarthDeVo said:

bluewolf said:

DarthDeVo said:

_RiO_ said:

DarthDeVo said:

I'm no lawyer, but I still think it would be hard proving the activity to be outright illegal. Maybe if the only thing you could do with HP was buy roster slots (and I do grant you that for most players, it probably is where they likely use their HP the most), you would have an easier case. 

But you can use it for shields in PvP, to buy healthpacks or boosts when you run out of them, to clear out vaults, and buy token packs or special deals like the Heroes for Hire store.

Iirc, there was actually precedent for this type of virtual currency being considered as part of a single chain of transaction leading to an end-purchase -- i.e. , being considered as intermediary -- if the bulk of said virtual currency was immediately put to use for the purchase of the actually desired digital content.

I think it was somehow related to Runescape, but don't pin me on that.

I recently bought a Switch with Christmas money. If Best Buy would have put it on sale two days later and I could have saved 50 bucks, I doubt they'd open the cash drawer and hand me $50 if I went to their store and showed them my receipt. Is it annoying to be on the wrong end of bad timing? Sure. But sometimes thems the breaks. 

Actually, if you go to a physical store that puts an item on sale shortly after you buy it, standard policy is to give you the sale price / a refund on your card. Otherwise you could return the item and just buy it again at the sale price. 

I am not suggesting that anyone should or will get reimbursed the difference in HP spent on roster slots now vs 2 days ago.  But Best Buy would give you a refund for the difference if you asked.

 Huh. Shows how much I know. I mean, I'm not sure if I've ever had something similar actually happen in real life. If it did, I probably chalked it up to bad luck. 

They have to have some sort of qualifier on it though, like the item in question must have been bought only a certain number of hours/days prior to when it went on sale. Like, less than a week,  I would think. Otherwise, I could buy, say a TV, then open their ad three months later, see it's on sale, and get a refund for the difference? That seems highly unlikely. 

And as far as returning it then buying it at the sale price goes, I might have to pay a restocking fee and if it was already opened, I may only get a portion of a refund, provided the item was in no way defective. 

To void the restocking fee, you could always buy the item again at the sale price, and then return the unopened item with the original receipt. Doesn’t work if there are unique item codes/serial on the receipt though. 

Some credit card now offer price protection. If an item you purchased dropped in price at the same store (difference sometimes need to be st least a certain amount, some also put a cap on maximum amount) over a certain period (typically 6 months), you could claim back the difference. 

Wow, y'all are much more informed consumers than I am.

MCUinmyPants

I need slots but I missed the HP sale. I need to scramble to gather some HP!

ThaRoadWarrior

yeah i opened up three slots right before the slot discount, but luckily managed to scrape together another 800 due to my PVE bracket being kind of inexplicably on coast-mode so I can t50 just by completing 7 clears whenever.

TheZeusBear

_RiO_ said:

I put in a ticket with CS. Lets see what they have to say on the matter.

Atleast I was honest with them and only asked for 1600 HP reimbursed. That is the 200 HP difference on 8 out of the 10 slots I opened with the HP from the purchased Avengers battlekit DLC. 2 out of those 10 slots I would realistically have had to open before the discounted roster slot prices anyway, as I used them to hold two 4* covers that were already queued and close to expiration.

Hope that counts for something, atleast.

Let us know how your ticket turns out? I put one in too for 37 roster slots I bought before the sale was announced. 

_RiO_

TheZeusBear said:

_RiO_ said:

I put in a ticket with CS. Lets see what they have to say on the matter.

Atleast I was honest with them and only asked for 1600 HP reimbursed. That is the 200 HP difference on 8 out of the 10 slots I opened with the HP from the purchased Avengers battlekit DLC. 2 out of those 10 slots I would realistically have had to open before the discounted roster slot prices anyway, as I used them to hold two 4* covers that were already queued and close to expiration.

Hope that counts for something, atleast.

Let us know how your ticket turns out? I put one in too for 37 roster slots I bought before the sale was announced. 

The reply I got was the stock "within 24hrs" reply:

If you purchased the Roster Slots within 24 hours of the sale, we would be more than happy to provide you with the currency refund to match the discounted price of the sales bonus. In order for us to proceed with our investigation in regards to this issue, could you please provide us with the approximate time and date which this error occurred?

I.e. the "tough luck, your problem" answer. (So much for the whole "people helping people" nonsense they're so proudly announcing.)

I'm going to push for an exception being made, considering the nature of back-to-back sales on Steam DLC and roster slots, without any advance notice to Steam users to hold onto their discount-purchased HP. Even something as simple as "Hold onto that HP, because we've got something special planned" would've sufficed.

If they're not going to agree to that, then that's the last time I'm spending money on this game for a long time to come.