Booster Crafting Details *Updated (12/8/17)

madwren

Ohboy said:

madwren said:

Much better than expected. Most importantly, not exchanging dupes for dupes is fantastic, and what I feel people most desired.

I do wish you were able to choose the color, however, as the price seems extreme considering the slow rate of reward accrual for many individuals.  For example, I'm missing 13 Origins mythics. A booster costs 5000 orbs, which is equivalent to 10 duplicate mythics (as you receive 500 orbs for them at conversion).

This means if I want, say, Hixus, I'll have to spend between 10-130 duplicates mythics to get it. That's a huge range of outcomes from "generous" to "exorbitant".

Being able to limit by color would not only help mitigate the disparity of those outcomes (while still assuring a degree of randomness), but assist people--particularly those who haven't been on the gravy train--in targeting specific cards that match their favorite planeswalkers and play styles.

Your mythics currently have almost zero value. Anything more is generous.

That's one perspective, sure, but you're pretending that it's binary when it's not.  In creating a new rate of exchange, there's a discernible difference between spending 10 mythics and spending 150 mythics, and one is definitely more generous than the other. They're not all simply "generous".

I'm one of the lucky ones. I have enough dupes to complete my collection. Not everyone is so fortunate.

madwren

Forgot to mention that the fact you'll receive mana runes from duplicates is also a strong positive. A tertiary route to accruing runes is very welcome.

Machine

Wow, this is a great implementation proposal for booster crafting. I like the differentation between legacy, standard and the newest set. I also like that dupes are worth both mana orbs and mana runes. I don't like that elite pack boosters can't be rerolled anymore, meaning any dupe you got for 400 (!) Jewels is only worth a fraction of a new crafted mythic. This is very pale in comparison with the reroll policy.

@Brigby: is it possible to discuss this with the developers? Jewels will get devaluated by a ton. I see that several people already mentioned that elite packs should provide a non dupe card. I agree with this as Jewels are already hard to come by. Because of their rarity it should be a great experience to actually cash them in, not resulting in frustration of getting a "worthless" dupe.

For the rest, keep up the good work Oktagon! I'm very excited about this feature and the future of this game.

Ohboy

madwren said:

Ohboy said:

madwren said:

Much better than expected. Most importantly, not exchanging dupes for dupes is fantastic, and what I feel people most desired.

I do wish you were able to choose the color, however, as the price seems extreme considering the slow rate of reward accrual for many individuals.  For example, I'm missing 13 Origins mythics. A booster costs 5000 orbs, which is equivalent to 10 duplicate mythics (as you receive 500 orbs for them at conversion).

This means if I want, say, Hixus, I'll have to spend between 10-130 duplicates mythics to get it. That's a huge range of outcomes from "generous" to "exorbitant".

Being able to limit by color would not only help mitigate the disparity of those outcomes (while still assuring a degree of randomness), but assist people--particularly those who haven't been on the gravy train--in targeting specific cards that match their favorite planeswalkers and play styles.

Your mythics currently have almost zero value. Anything more is generous.

That's one perspective, sure, but you're pretending that it's binary when it's not.  In creating a new rate of exchange, there's a discernible difference between spending 10 mythics and spending 150 mythics, and one is definitely more generous than the other. They're not all simply "generous".

I'm one of the lucky ones. I have enough dupes to complete my collection. Not everyone is so fortunate.

You're not talking about degrees of generosity though. You used the term "exorbitant". 

__Adam

This is the kind of fairness that will get me to start spending money on this game again. 

Definitely. Another. Dime.

__Adam

Ohboy said:

madwren said:

Ohboy said:

madwren said:

Much better than expected. Most importantly, not exchanging dupes for dupes is fantastic, and what I feel people most desired.

I do wish you were able to choose the color, however, as the price seems extreme considering the slow rate of reward accrual for many individuals.  For example, I'm missing 13 Origins mythics. A booster costs 5000 orbs, which is equivalent to 10 duplicate mythics (as you receive 500 orbs for them at conversion).

This means if I want, say, Hixus, I'll have to spend between 10-130 duplicates mythics to get it. That's a huge range of outcomes from "generous" to "exorbitant".

Being able to limit by color would not only help mitigate the disparity of those outcomes (while still assuring a degree of randomness), but assist people--particularly those who haven't been on the gravy train--in targeting specific cards that match their favorite planeswalkers and play styles.

Your mythics currently have almost zero value. Anything more is generous.

That's one perspective, sure, but you're pretending that it's binary when it's not.  In creating a new rate of exchange, there's a discernible difference between spending 10 mythics and spending 150 mythics, and one is definitely more generous than the other. They're not all simply "generous".

I'm one of the lucky ones. I have enough dupes to complete my collection. Not everyone is so fortunate.

You're not talking about degrees of generosity though. You used the term "exorbitant". 

The true range is "Never get a dupe, ever" to "You can do nothing about dupes".  Generous and exorbitant would fall somewhere between these 2 bounds. 

Calling infinity -1 'generous' because its less than infinity is dishonest at best.

madwren

Ohboy said:

madwren said:

Ohboy said:

madwren said:

Much better than expected. Most importantly, not exchanging dupes for dupes is fantastic, and what I feel people most desired.

I do wish you were able to choose the color, however, as the price seems extreme considering the slow rate of reward accrual for many individuals.  For example, I'm missing 13 Origins mythics. A booster costs 5000 orbs, which is equivalent to 10 duplicate mythics (as you receive 500 orbs for them at conversion).

This means if I want, say, Hixus, I'll have to spend between 10-130 duplicates mythics to get it. That's a huge range of outcomes from "generous" to "exorbitant".

Being able to limit by color would not only help mitigate the disparity of those outcomes (while still assuring a degree of randomness), but assist people--particularly those who haven't been on the gravy train--in targeting specific cards that match their favorite planeswalkers and play styles.

Your mythics currently have almost zero value. Anything more is generous.

That's one perspective, sure, but you're pretending that it's binary when it's not.  In creating a new rate of exchange, there's a discernible difference between spending 10 mythics and spending 150 mythics, and one is definitely more generous than the other. They're not all simply "generous".

I'm one of the lucky ones. I have enough dupes to complete my collection. Not everyone is so fortunate.

You're not talking about degrees of generosity though. You used the term "exorbitant". 

My text literally says "That's a huge range of outcomes from 'generous' to 'exorbitant'." 

madwren

--Adam said:

The true range is "Never get a dupe, ever" to "You can do nothing about dupes".  Generous and exorbitant would fall somewhere between these 2 bounds. 

Calling infinity -1 'generous' because its less than infinity is dishonest at best.

I agree, but since they've stated that there will be no dupes, the range is as stated---on one end is "Never get a dupe, but expend minimal currency", and on the far end is "never get a dupe, but expend high amounts of currency". 

The closer it is to the "minimal" end, the greater accessibility the duplicate crafting system has to the masses. The closer it is to the "high" end, the lower the potential accessibility. 

A balance obviously has to be struck to ensure future sales and motivate people to play events. I simply think an extra layer of focused crafting would be that balance, and would allow those players that don't have a warehouse of duplicates to have more control over the direction they're trying to steer their collection.  I want Johnny Kaladesh to be as excited about the potential for crafting as someone who's been around since BFZ.

Ohboy

We went from getting zilch to getting a Christmas bonus, and you're complaining the bonus is too small.

It's not even implemented yet and you've forgotten that we're moving upwards on that scale you're describing. Any movement from the "nothing from duplicates" limit of that scale is a generous move. You're getting something for nothing.

When people give you a gift, it's not really good form to ask why they wouldn't give you a more expensive one. 

__Adam

It's not a gift, it's a business proposition.  

Obviously never getting a dupe doesn't make sense. However, the current situation deters me from spending more cash on this game because I don't like the idea of getting almost nothing of value from a purchase. Giving dupes some value makes me feel much better about 'gambling' with my money because it helps mitigate my loses. If there's enough value, even in the worse case scenario, then I'll make regular purchases.

It's a balance.  If the conversion is too high then I'm still not enticed to buy.  Too far in the other direction and they aren't being fairly compensated for their work. The real question is "What's fair for both parties".

I can tell you the current situation is unacceptably 1 sided and not a reasonable 'anchor' for negotiations.

Outersider

I am a bit confused by the mana rumes/mana orbs  descriiption.  Do our current runes convert to orbs? If not are they used the same as orbs with a 1 to 1 ratio? Do you need both to get a new pack. It seems confusing to me.

Dutchrudder

Wow this sounds awesome! I wish you had announced it a few weeks ago, I would have bought Bolas instead of quitting the game...

tfg76

Given this system, what would people say if they allowed you to buy an elite pack (still no rerolls) for, say, 2500 orbs? And then they can just discontinue the jewels.

Krishna

Outersider said:

I am a bit confused by the mana rumes/mana orbs  descriiption.  Do our current runes convert to orbs? If not are they used the same as orbs with a 1 to 1 ratio? Do you need both to get a new pack. It seems confusing to me.

it is confusing. Runes do not convert to orbs. Each duplicate converts to runes and orbs

Outersider

Krishna said:

it is confusing. Runes do not convert to orbs. Each duplicate converts to runes and orbs

So what do we need both to make a booster pack/ is the cost in both runes and orbs.... still don't quite understand it.  

Krishna

Outersider said:

Krishna said:

it is confusing. Runes do not convert to orbs. Each duplicate converts to runes and orbs

So what do we need both to make a booster pack/ is the cost in both runes and orbs.... still don't quite understand it.  

When you get a duplicate card, it will be converted into mana runes and mana orbs. The runes only purpose is to level up Planeswalkers (and to buy an extra deck slot). The orbs will be used for Booster Crafting.

DBJones

Tfg76's idea for buying elite packs with mana orbs sounds cool. Personally, I'd prefer that jewels become less scarce, but that's because I'm silver tier and still working on getting a good chunk of mythics.

bk1234

The one thing I don't like is the orb conversion for a dupe masterpiece with rerolls going away. If you use your hard earned unobtainium and get a dupe masterpiece, the least you should get in return is a non-dupe mythic. I think the orb conversion should be higher. Though I haven't seen the value in using my pink stuff in awhile. 

blacklotus

bken1234 said:

The one thing I don't like is the orb conversion for a dupe masterpiece with rerolls going away. If you use your hard earned unobtainium and get a dupe masterpiece, the least you should get in return is a non-dupe mythic. I think the orb conversion should be higher. Though I haven't seen the value in using my pink stuff in awhile. 

i do like the idea of an all MP (masterpiece) only elite pack. price to purchase a card from said pack could be adjusted upwards in the number of jewels to account for it being all MPs. If one gets a dupe, there is still no re-roll. A duped MP is worth 1/2 a standard format mythic in mana orbs for crafting purpose. i think that's about fair to d3 biz model and the players.

MPs are designed as the end-game chase cards for top players. It should remain so. They are not needed to win as most mythic cards are better anyway. The are more like foil versions of the paper ccg, chased to complete a collection. 

blacklotus

d3go should add cash purchase options for standalone jewels. so far, there isn't one yet. it's always combined with cards, crystals or pw. Players so inclined can then use cash to purchase jewels which can only be used to buy elite packs, in place of grinding out events for them. mtgpq is a Freemium game model after all