Shield Training - the disconnect continues.

Michaelcles

Given what Disney did to Marvel Heroes, it makes me wonder if MPQ is about to loose thier license too and this is part of a last ditch cash grab.

D3 is free to chime in and let us know when their license expires.

Borstock

They should make the final node a boss node vs Pickaxe Hiker. He has 1 HP, but you need a Max Champed version of the new character to unlock it. The reward for winning is one HP so you never have a round number HP count again. 

You don't have to be able to complete everything for an event to be worthwhile. It's not an insult. It's a game. 

Taganov

smkspy said:

I kinda get your logic, but it seems skewed towards a very very small faction of the customer base at the expense of alienating the vast majority of it. 

Well, we don't have the raw data, but I fully expect that the amount this small faction spends dwarfs the larger casual base. Probably significantly. 

I think we can all cynically recognized that devs gotta eat too, but it's telling that all the recent changes were designed around "long time supporters." PvE with required 5s, ability to slum lower SCLs, Shield Training with characters not even in tokens required, EXP moved to tokens, and the spectacular about-face on win-based PvP.

Michaelcles

Borstock said:

You don't have to be able to complete everything for an event to be worthwhile. It's not an insult. It's a game. 

It’s an insult when you’ve shelled out significant $$$ and the developer puts new content behind a paywall, and continues to do so despite customer dis-satisfaction.

Dragon_Nexus

smkspy said:

Whales aren't even a factor cause they will spend that money any way. So what, they actually hope that a potential customer, which this is designed for, is gonna blow a ton of cash for some generally 2 star tokens, measly iso pay out, and one 4 star cover (that they know will quickly cover anyways if they've been playing the game for more than a month).

I think that touches on a very interesting point there.

Even if I had my most cynical hat on and believed this event was purely to push people to spend lots of money on getting enough ISO and covers for the newest 4* release so they could get a free 4* cover...does that even make sense in a broader scale?

I am not in any way a whale so I don't understand the mentality fully, but would you really go through that much cash to get a single cover for a 4* early when you're just going to whale the character up anyway as soon as they're in covers?

Phumade

Dragon_Nexus said:

I am not in any way a whale so I don't understand the mentality fully, but would you really go through that much cash to get a single cover for a 4* early when you're just going to whale the character up anyway as soon as they're in covers?

Yes.  Before the only penalty to encourage championing 4* was to get the task done before their next PVE/pvp appearance (It could be months before NC or Meh hulk is featured in an event.)  Now you get a clear benefit to championing a new release inside of 7 days.

Lets acknowledge the fact that Demi has perfect information on your buying, roster, and rate of advancement on ALL PLAYERS.  They have a far better understanding of what "progress" can be bought for $100 than any player group can make via educated guesses.

While its not unreasonable for players to think and call it out as a cash grab, but The devs probably have far better metrics to give them the confidence to make a business bet that they have identified a definable segment of players that CAN be incentivized to once again spend money.  

If financial P.O.V. doesn't convice you consider it from this gameplay experience.

Early in the dawn of seasons (back when a 270 4* was GOD tier),  a fully leveled, 10 cover new char 4* had a near insurmountable advantage during the new char buff period.  You got a massive advantage over other 4* players and it was self reinfocing feedback loop.  People who had the new char, got big advantages in subsequent events etc...

In the age of 450 5*,  Who cares if your new character got a 100 level boost?  The 5* meta crushes a new 4* champ who isn't over 320.  In fact if you buffed a meh hulk to 370,  it might not even make the 3rd screen of an advanced free to play roster.

in the age of power creep,  The value of new character buffs was discounted to point of being irrelvant.  5* players could control the top of pvp with or without a well developed new release.

This event clearly rewards rosters who champ a new release inside of 7 days.

vinsensual

Michaelcles said:

Given what Disney did to Marvel Heroes, it makes me wonder if MPQ is about to loose thier license too and this is part of a last ditch cash grab.

D3 is free to chime in and let us know when their license expires.

While possible, it was also speculated that the relationship between marvel and gazillion had soured. 

Phaserhawk

These are the true face of the game. They don’t care about the average player, just milking the whale. I have never seen a game so dedicated to this strategy. It’s also no surprise that they are always dropping in sales on this game. Wish they would figure out a free access to content but a pay amount to bonus is more profitable and better longevity than this strategy. Look at League of Legends and see how a freemium game is supposed to work 

bluewolf

@Michaelcles You should not at all expect them to tell you when their "license expires".  I would assume that it extends until the game is shut down, but maybe it's renewed on some periodic basis.  But they won't tell you any of that. The last thing a FTP game would do it give spenders a heads up that "on this date, all your purchases will be worthless" or even "might be worthless depending on negotiations".

As pointed out before, a 4* character is pretty much worthless to a moderate-to-big spender in terms of roster use.  Heck, once you've gotten most of them champed through play, it's hard to make them stand out.  Maybe a couple of 4's (Nico being one?) have a place on a 3 person team once you're in the 5* realm.  So how do you as a developer convince people to keep spending money on your 60th 4*?  61st?  75th?  Like, it's hard enough finding a way to make them unique at a certain point.  How do you make people think their money is worth spending this time?  Is this new character going to really affect your roster or the meta?

So you have this new SHIELD Training.  It gives bragging rights to those who can finish it.  You can be one of the first people to use the new character and maybe lead the meta for a short time.  It is true that the rewards are pretty minimal, but there aren't too many rewards in this game that they can use.  And if they over reward spending here, maybe you spend less later.  $100 in a buy club already gets you 5 1/2 Legendary pulls.

It is possible with a high level of play to get your character veeerrry close to 209, maybe all the way there, from cover rewards.  And I actually managed to get all the new covers (Rogue, NC, and MEH) with a large amount of draw luck (saved pulls and bonus heroes) without spending.  I am in a casual alliance and didn't even get placement covers for PVP.  I think I T20'd the release events.  So maybe the training motivates some people to spend a smaller amount and chase a last cover too.

If it makes people feel any better, we are probably 6 weeks from the next 4, if the rumors of a 3/5 release are true (the pattern has been skip a release, then in 4 weeks, have a boss event. Then 2 more weeks for a 4*).

All that said, even the devs have kind of said "Oops, we should have had MEH in some purchasable token at event launch" over on Discord.  Which, you know, basic business concept.  

Calnexin

Phumade said:

I don't think its a stretch reading at all to infer.

"Players who are long-time supporters of the game"
    --- There are two interpretations that are commonly accepted.  "supporter" means: 1.  people who play alot,  2. People who pay alot.  To me, it seems that both of these interpretations would be obvious to the majority of players.  I.e.  you can be the most passionate marvel match 3 fan in world who gives lots of likes and upvotes on whatever social sites,  but this event is not meant to reward that type of support.

"We wanted to create an extra event that allowed these players to show case their roster strength"
   ---  I.e.  We made an event that caters to those "play" alot or "pay" alot players.

You're leaving out the adjective to that noun.  "Supporter" certainly implies "paying customer".  "Long-time" implies people who have years of history with the game.  The gating mechanic here is specifically for recent heavy support.  Saying they're rewarding "long-time supporters" is kind of a half-truth, because yes, you DO have to be a long-time player (though not necessarily a supporter) to have the other two 4* essentials covered and leveled.  But that's not sufficient to earn all of the rewards.  The biggest beneficiary is "long-time players who have recently thrown heavy support to the game."

Thus, I consider the company line somewhere between disingenuous and completely meaningless.  The "reward" being referenced is technically achievable by everybody in little bits.  Even someone who just installed the game can complete the loaner node, which would make "long-time" inaccurate.  If they mean the "reward" is the new character cover, then that term is disingenuous, because it is necessary but not sufficient.  If they mean something inbetween, then what's the cutoff between reward and not-reward?  At that point why bother pitching anything like that at all to the community?  "Here's how we decided to introduce new characters from now on."  That's simple, accurate, and doesn't make us all feel like we're being sold a bill of goods.

Phumade

Calnexin said:

Phumade said:

I don't think its a stretch reading at all to infer.

"Players who are long-time supporters of the game"
    --- There are two interpretations that are commonly accepted.  "supporter" means: 1.  people who play alot,  2. People who pay alot.  To me, it seems that both of these interpretations would be obvious to the majority of players.  I.e.  you can be the most passionate marvel match 3 fan in world who gives lots of likes and upvotes on whatever social sites,  but this event is not meant to reward that type of support.

"We wanted to create an extra event that allowed these players to show case their roster strength"
   ---  I.e.  We made an event that caters to those "play" alot or "pay" alot players.

You're leaving out the adjective to that noun.  "Supporter" certainly implies "paying customer".  "Long-time" implies people who have years of history with the game.  The gating mechanic here is specifically for recent heavy support.  Saying they're rewarding "long-time supporters" is kind of a half-truth, because yes, you DO have to be a long-time player (though not necessarily a supporter) to have the other two 4* essentials covered and leveled.  But that's not sufficient to earn all of the rewards.  The biggest beneficiary is "long-time players who have recently thrown heavy support to the game."

Thus, I consider the company line somewhere between disingenuous and completely meaningless.  The "reward" being referenced is technically achievable by everybody in little bits.  Even someone who just installed the game can complete the loaner node, which would make "long-time" inaccurate.  If they mean the "reward" is the new character cover, then that term is disingenuous, because it is necessary but not sufficient.  If they mean something inbetween, then what's the cutoff between reward and not-reward?  At that point why bother pitching anything like that at all to the community?  "Here's how we decided to introduce new characters from now on."  That's simple, accurate, and doesn't make us all feel like we're being sold a bill of goods.

You have identified the exact same target audience as I have.  You may want to read and infer that the target audience is someone different.  But you came to the exact same conclusion I have.

This event rewards long-time players who have recently thrown heavy support to the game.

You may want to infer a different intent.  You may even find alternative definitions to support a reading of differing intent.  But we all agree who this event was designed for.

In other words, 
Are you seriously implying that reading the press release, looking at the last 3 interations of this event, looking at the prize structure of pve/pvp.  You came to the conclusion that the 4* bonus release was going to require anything but a 13 cover MEH hulk to unlock the LT?

Use your common sense, logic and education.  The wording of the press release clearly encompassed the idea of spender, big powerful rosters.

Its perfectly reasonable to think that a VIP/ 4* rosters meets those criteria.  but that viewpoint isn't valid when you look at the previous 3 iteration of the event,  nor is it valid when it is impossible to win 13 covers via prog/placement in 7 days.

You read the same press release that I did and came to the same conclusion on who the event is designed to benefit.

The only real critque your making is that they could have done a better job with marketing copy.  But I'm pretty sure the overwhelming majority of players understood exactly who this event benefits.

Wonko33

A lot of you guys are saying that 4s don't matter to the well established 5* roster owners but in the same breath say that Shield training makes them rush to champ a useless character in a week so that they can earn  1 cover of another useless character. Either this arguments makes no sense or there are a lot of dumb rich people.

Calnexin

Phumade said:

In other words, 
Are you seriously implying that reading the press release, looking at the last 3 interations of this event, looking at the prize structure of pve/pvp.  You came to the conclusion that the 4* bonus release was going to require anything but a 13 cover MEH hulk to unlock the LT?

Use your common sense, logic and education.  The wording of the press release clearly encompassed the idea of spender, big powerful rosters.

Not at all.  I realized who it was for with Rogue's release.  I was extremely miffed at that first one, because I'd happened to have bought a couple of Starks during the anniversary event and that apparently wasn't enough to sit at the big kids' table.  After that it's been obvious exactly who this is for.

Which is why I take issue with

It's no surprise that there are players in our community who are long-time supporters of the game, veterans that have been with us since the beginning, and many players in between/in both categories. Having dedicated so much time and effort, these are the players that have worked hard to grow a large and formidable roster. 

Brigby gave us that, which is the official company line as far as I know.  Nowhere in there is there a mea culpa about treating big spenders.  It says long-time vets who have worked hard.  While there is some overlap, those two are not the same thing.  It's a flat out lie, and it's insulting.  We all know what's going on, and trying to earn brownie points for customer-friendliness in the face of it makes them look really, really bad.  To me, at least.

Phumade

Calnexin said:

Not at all.  I realized who it was for with Rogue's release.  I was extremely miffed at that first one, because I'd happened to have bought a couple of Starks during the anniversary event and that apparently wasn't enough to sit at the big kids' table.  After that it's been obvious exactly who this is for.

Which is why I take issue with

It's no surprise that there are players in our community who are long-time supporters of the game, veterans that have been with us since the beginning, and many players in between/in both categories. Having dedicated so much time and effort, these are the players that have worked hard to grow a large and formidable roster. 

Brigby gave us that, which is the official company line as far as I know.  Nowhere in there is there a mea culpa about treating big spenders.  It says long-time vets who have worked hard.  While there is some overlap, those two are not the same thing.  It's a flat out lie, and it's insulting.  We all know what's going on, and trying to earn brownie points for customer-friendliness in the face of it makes them look really, really bad.  To me, at least.

Consider this perspective and point of view.

The Devs know who the target audience this event was designed for.  You know who this event is designed for. 

But you choose to critique them on the messaging and communication of the event and not the actual target?

It is wasted outrage if the whole point of this thread was to crtique Pay 2 win events.  They aren't even trying to disguise it or dress it up.  

If your real objection is a pay to 2 event.  Make your critique on why those events are bad for the base.  Don't argue that they were disingenuous with how they communicated to the players.  The only message your sending, is that brigby did a bad job on the press release.  

You got their intent spot on.  I read their intentions the same way.

Calnexin

Phumade said:

Consider this perspective and point of view.

The Devs know who the target audience this event was designed for.  You know who this event is designed for. 

But you choose to critique them on the messaging and communication of the event and not the actual target?

Words have meaning.  If someone tells me they're going to give me an apple, and they give me an apple core, I'm going into the next round of apple distribution with a healthy dose of cynicism.

Just because we're all smart enough (and/or the lie is so brazen) that we've all figured out what's going on doesn't make it OK to lie to your customers.  Apparently you're fine with it.  I'm not.  I'm not even offended it's a Pay2Play event.  If they just came out and called a spade a spade I wouldn't take any umbrage with that.

They made this thing with obvious intentions that a lot of people were really upset by.  But instead of owning up to what it is, they sent Brigby on here to spin some PR and tell us it's designed with the long-time player in mind.  It's a deflection because of the bad press.  I'm offended that they attempted to assuage the frustration by spinning it that way.  From my perspective, they're insulting our intelligence.

Orion

I understand that the company wants to have an event to reward the vets and whales, but what % of people are we talking about here?  In order to get the covers you need for ME Hulk, you have to be in the top 1% of PvE and 1% of PvP and still get lucky to pull a Hulk from one of the limited tokens.  So what are we talking about here?  0.5% of the players?  Less?  That's a very specific group you're catering to.  You're literally locking out 99.5% of your player base.  Yeah, that's not going to go well usually.

broll

Wonko33 said:

A lot of you guys are saying that 4s don't matter to the well established 5* roster owners but in the same breath say that Shield training makes them rush to champ a useless character in a week so that they can earn  1 cover of another useless character. Either this arguments makes no sense or there are a lot of dumb rich people.

All I have to say is look at the bolded statement then think about Donald Trump...

Phumade

Orion said:

I understand that the company wants to have an event to reward the vets and whales, but what % of people are we talking about here?  In order to get the covers you need for ME Hulk, you have to be in the top 1% of PvE and 1% of PvP and still get lucky to pull a Hulk from one of the limited tokens.  So what are we talking about here?  0.5% of the players?  Less?  That's a very specific group you're catering to.  You're literally locking out 99.5% of your player base.  Yeah, that's not going to go well usually.

Yes your are 100% correct in your analysis.

They have made a bet on driving extra revenue from that .5% of the players.

Simplified explanation:  They don't think they can incentivize the bottom 95% of players to participate in buy club (short of giving away the entire game for $10,  they don't feel they can make any money from the bottom 95%).  They are pretty confident that the top 4% of players will buy regardless.  This event is purely designed for that 1% window of players who:

1.  have bought before and are comfortable with spending $100 a month on discretionary entertainment.
2.  have outgrown the game and can play essentially FTP.

Events like these suck up resources from that small window of players can play at a high level but in a FTP manner.  Chasing the 10-13 cover will consume resources from hoards and force to either drop back or spend a little bit more to get tokens, hit higher targets etc...  Over time players will factor the need to place T1/5 get the necessary covers, push an extra hop etc...

Don't forget they have perfect information with respect to your buying, rate of roster development etc.  They know exactly how far 20,000 hp can be used to develop a roster.

Borstock

Michaelcles said:

Borstock said:

You don't have to be able to complete everything for an event to be worthwhile. It's not an insult. It's a game. 

It’s an insult when you’ve shelled out significant $$$ and the developer puts new content behind a paywall, and continues to do so despite customer dis-satisfaction.

No, it's not. That's like saying it's insulting when the grocery store makes you pay for apples when you bought apples the week before.

I don't know how many times it has to be said... this game is not a charity. Businesses that say "you know what, we already made money, we don't need to make anymore" don't last. They're not insulting you. They're not looking to make your life miserable. They are not plotting to gaslight you. They are making a game designed to generate income. If you don't want to spend any money, there's a very simple solution to that problem.

Don't.

Dormammu

I agree that SHIELD training makes absolutely no sense because meh-Hulk is completely unattainable - even by spending cash - unless you drop the CP into his covers (and that's just a stupid use of CP).

But I disagree that its anything to get riled up about. For the last four years I have been playing this game and I've been able to play in every single event and nearly every single node that I have the ambition to play - with little-to-no restrictions. Yeah, there was an event or two waaaaay back in the day that required HP or something to enter (I forget now) but the devs quickly abandoned that practice. And yes, there are nodes in DDQ and PvE that require us to have a certain character - but only 1 cover is needed and there is no level restriction.

One of the best things about MPQ is and always has been the ability to play the game without a paywall or annoying 'energy' requirements getting in the way. Want to play for 5 minutes? Cool. Want to play for 5 hours? Cool.

SHIELD training is such a tiny piece of the overall MPQ experience that I have no problem ignoring it, and I don't begrudge the devs for putting it in there.