Shield Training - the disconnect continues.

Dragon_Nexus

I understand the idea of Shield Training. Those with long established rosters can pit those characters against set enemies, beating through nodes to maybe get a free 4* cover. It's a good idea and I like it.

HOWEVER.

Nearly every one has required a high level *brand new character* in order to fully benefit.

I'm not advocating participation awards for everyone, but I am advocating that the character selection be more sensible. I worked to get a Gladiator Hulk and I have him at 0/2/2, he's level 106. I cannot get him higher.

It's safe to assume the underlying idea of Shield Training is to urge people to stop hoarding and cash those legendary tokens and CP in to get the new character, level them up and give them a try. It's something I imagine the developers want to tackle and this is a good way of doing that. But again I must point out the flaw with this.

Gladiator Hulk is not in the legendary tokens, nor is he available as a bonus hero.

So in the end of it all, how am I meant to progress in Shield Training? The event's are over, there's no other way to get covers for him within a week. Thus it's literally impossible for me to get him to the level 209 required to finish Shield Training without spending just so much CP to buy the covers individually. And I refuse to believe that's part of the plan. I do not want to believe they honestly want me to spend, what, 480? 600? 720CP? in order to get enough covers to get *one* Nico cover.

The level caps are okay for now, I feel. But the choice of characters required to make progress always feel too recent. The best choice would have been Nightcrawler. He's in the tokens, he's available as a bonus and he's still fairly new. That would push me to open more legendaries to get more covers and levels for him. And yes, Nightcrawler's already been done, but the same issue was true for his Shield Training as this one.

TL;DR - Demiurge, you're one character too far ahead. If you use Gladiator Hulk for the next Shield Sim again we can get a better handle on out progress. It would fix the issue of token hoarding since we'll be more inclined to open them to get covers for the latest addition to tokens. We'd be more likely to get the reward from Shield Training, though it would still require work on our part. It would be far more fair and balanced.

bluewolf

On 12/3 the Nico and Friends vault opens.  In the vault will be Nico and 2 other 4*s.  Those two slots will be RNG filled from Fury, HB, and MEH.  Approx $100 per vault clear.  Maybe you’ll get lucky though.

Shield training is spending motivation, not hoarding deterrent.

Blindman13

The thing that really points to the disconnect is that they started the new HfH offering with this one selling the two classic 4*s but not the latest. Sure, there have been a few complaints about people not having the required classics for these events, but if you are new enough to the game that you don't have a high level HB and/or NF, then you probably don;t have 7000 HP to drop on two covers either, unless you are going to drop some cash.
The overwhelming complaint I have seen is requiring the newest 4*, and at this time there is zero opportunity to add any more MEHulk covers than what we have right now.

Straycat

Not to mention the other huge disconnect, that you still need to have the newest character almost champed to do the bottom row of individual training. I've just accepted that I will only ever clear the first node.
I would love if the level restriction was taken off of the one on one fights to let us try and punch way above our class. But even when I got lucky and had 6 covers for Rogue's shield training, I didn't want to spend my iso right away for 1 command point.

dr tinykittylove

I have exactly enough covers to have MEH at 209. The breakdown for where the covers came from:

T10 pve - 3
Pve alliance t100 - 1
Featured pve progression - 1
T5 cl8 pvp - 2
Featured pvp progression - 1
Previous Shield Training requiring Nightcrawler @209 - 1
Lucky vault token for MEH vault - 1

Think about it. If you're crazy and lucky enough to get t10 in pve and t5 in cl8 pvp, then play to full progression in the following pve and pvp, you still won't be able to get the Nico cover. Unless you got lucky on a token during that brief period where MEH was available. 

This is Extremely Not Cool. 

After this shield training is done, I would like to see how many people got as far as the Nico cover. 

Colognoisseur

Except supposedly there was going to be a SHIELD Training token store which should have opened today. If that had MEHulk available at an enhanced rate that would be great but even there they can't get their act together.
There are times when they are presented with a problem well ahead of time on every channel they communicate on and they still manage to botch things.
I know its incompetence more than malice but it makes it no less irritating.

LambadaDave

I agree wholeheartedly with Dragon_Nexus on this.  While I appreciate the achievable nodes and the additional variety of game play, this event continues to feel like an unapologetic paywall. 

Mobile game companies have had a lot of bad press recently for their predatory purchase schemes.  I truly hope that D3 takes notice of what happens when your name becomes synonymous with "pay to win".

Dragon_Nexus

LambadaDave said:

I agree wholeheartedly with Dragon_Nexus on this.  While I appreciate the achievable nodes and the additional variety of game play, this event continues to feel like an unapologetic paywall. 

Mobile game companies have had a lot of bad press recently for their predatory purchase schemes.  I truly hope that D3 takes notice of what happens when your name becomes synonymous with "pay to win".

Yeah, honestly I've usually championed this game as one of the lighter pay to win experiences. It's not an insurmountable grind if you put some time and effort into the game, but the casual experience of matching three and finding covers is still rewarding enough on its own.

Plus the game feels kinda generous with its premium currency. Doesn't take me long to get HP for roster slots, for example. ISO is still difficult to get in abundance but it's so much better than it used to be.

I love the concept of Shield Training, but there's a balance to be struck between "You could spend a little money if you want" and "This area is off limits until you pony up the dough."

Meander

I get the complaints,  but this a new cover of a new release.  New releases are an attempt to sell packs to people who chase.  I realize just one cover isn't a huge loss for them/ gain for the players,  but they're still being pretty generous by offering a free cover of their newest product, even if that only benefits a select few.  

Think of it this way - previously this didn't exist. You didn't get squat outside of placement rewards and packs.  Even if you still get nothing but a bit of iso and some tokens, that's still a gain from the nothing you used to get.  

0zfest

Here is a thought ... how about you put the newest characters in this event towards the end of it so lower level characters may build some iso/tokens etc. instead of being shut down one node into a 7 day event ? Or does that just make too much sense ? Dev/mpq defenders get ready ! Use your heads people and don't just cater to the high level players ... remember the little people !

Sm0keyJ0e

Meander said:

I get the complaints,  but this a new cover of a new release.  New releases are an attempt to sell packs to people who chase.  I realize just one cover isn't a huge loss for them/ gain for the players,  but they're still being pretty generous by offering a free cover of their newest product, even if that only benefits a select few.  

Think of it this way - previously this didn't exist. You didn't get squat outside of placement rewards and packs.  Even if you still get nothing but a bit of iso and some tokens, that's still a gain from the nothing you used to get.  

This isn't entirely accurate. Before this event existed, there was a regular token store for the new release with enhanced odds. With this change, there is now a vault that is not worth the price of admission. So yeah, <1% can probably achieve this free cover, but other changes have made getting the new shiny covered and champed in a reasonable time frame (like before their featured PVP) next to impossible.

Blindman13

Meander said:

I get the complaints,  but this a new cover of a new release.  New releases are an attempt to sell packs to people who chase.  I realize just one cover isn't a huge loss for them/ gain for the players,  but they're still being pretty generous by offering a free cover of their newest product, even if that only benefits a select few.  

Think of it this way - previously this didn't exist. You didn't get squat outside of placement rewards and packs.  Even if you still get nothing but a bit of iso and some tokens, that's still a gain from the nothing you used to get.  

I agree that usually something is better than nothing. The problem here is that such a blatant cash grab feels like getting underwear for your birthday. Sure, it's a gift, but it's a **** gift that shows the giver does not care about you, or know you well enough to give you something meaningful.
So, yes, free ISO is something I can and will use. However, if they are going to take the time to build a new event like this, why not put a little more effort into making it accessible to more people, or at least try to hide the cash grab-iness a little?

aesthetocyst

Blindman13 said: ... I agree that usually something is better than nothing. The problem here is that such a blatant cash grab feels like getting underwear for your birthday. 

Everyone needs underwear (whether they think so or not). If the person gets your favorite kind, that's a thoughtful, practical gift.

My half-bday just past, so you've all got 6mos to stockpile and ship underroos my way.

Jaedenkaal

aesthetocyst said:

Blindman13 said: ... I agree that usually something is better than nothing. The problem here is that such a blatant cash grab feels like getting underwear for your birthday. 

Everyone needs underwear (whether they think so or not). If the person gets your favorite kind, that's a thoughtful, practical gift.

My half-bday just past, so you've all got 6mos to stockpile and ship underroos my way.

300 sets of assorted womens' underwear, incoming. 

animaniactoo

aesthetocyst said:

Blindman13 said: ... I agree that usually something is better than nothing. The problem here is that such a blatant cash grab feels like getting underwear for your birthday. 

Everyone needs underwear (whether they think so or not). If the person gets your favorite kind, that's a thoughtful, practical gift.

My half-bday just past, so you've all got 6mos to stockpile and ship underroos my way.

Spidey, WW, or R2D2?

mpqr7

I guess it's cool to get some extra ISO and stuff, but really it actually does make me feel worse to have a new cover there but basically impossible to get unless you grind and pull like crazy on the previous new release. I'm a vet, deep into the 5* game now... it's not worth all that effort required to get to the new 4* cover node.

Give us old-timers a chance! I have championed all other 4*s besides the last few brand new ones... maybe some time I can learn there was a reason why I did that!

SkyElf

I don't mind being required to buy classic legendary tokens until I get 10 covers for the latest 4* character.  For me, it encourages hoarding rather than discourages it.  Since I still have 8 4* characters with less than 13 covers, I would be spending command points on classic legendary tokens trying to finish those characters if I didn't feel a need to get the newest 4* character up to 10 covers the instant it is added to tokens. 

But requiring a character who isn't in the tokens yet isn't fair.  I don't have enough command points to bring the new character up to 10 covers.  Even if I did, I wouldn't want to spend them doing so,  I want the chance to get covers for the other 8 characters I need to finish as well as the chance to get covers for my 5* characters.  Also, I am still missing a power, which means buying the covers would make him 0/5/5 and practically guarentee that I would have sell covers I couldn't use later.

Phumade

Meh,  Its a blatant cash grab/paywall  but they are being completely upfront about it.  Nothing much to really **** about.  If thats how they want to spend their labor dollars, then that is their perogative.

If you can champion a new release inside of their release cycle you get a LT pure and simple.  There are only 10 accessible progression/placement covers,  the rest have to be whaled plain and simple.

Feel free to show your engagement with this strategy by either playing or not playing the event.  Demi has made a clear decision to say that they will reward players who are willing to whale 3-4 covers to finish them inside a week.  (Whaling the previous release is really no different than paying an extra DLC fee to play shield training)

Nothing more to complain about when the Community manger states upfront,  "This event is a bonus reward for players who have previously whaled the last release.  As a sweetner bonus if you can champ this release in 5 days you get an extra LT perk"

If this was Call of duty.  shield training would basically be bonus DLC content.

Orion

Phumade said:

Meh,  Its a blatant cash grab/paywall  but they are being completely upfront about it.

But the problem is this time you can't spend your way to a ME Hulk.  There are no tokens to buy that have him right now.  So my 2/2/3 ME Hulk is not going to get any bigger unless I spend 360 CP to add 3 covers to him.  And unless I join a buy club or 3, 360 CP is going to cost me $5100.

That's not a cash grab.  That's plain incompetence and a fundamental misunderstanding of how their own game works.

Phumade

Orion said:

Phumade said:

Meh,  Its a blatant cash grab/paywall  but they are being completely upfront about it.

But the problem is this time you can't spend your way to a ME Hulk.  There are no tokens to buy that have him right now.  So my 2/2/3 ME Hulk is not going to get any bigger unless I spend 360 CP to add 3 covers to him.  And unless I join a buy club or 3, 360 CP is going to cost me $5100.

That's not a cash grab.  That's plain incompetence and a fundamental misunderstanding of how their own game works.

LOL clearly they should have had Meh Hulk tokens for sale.  Big mistake on their part.  But if they get that fixed with 3 days left in the event, it will still be whale / playable.  just because the store opens in advance of the debut event, doesn't mean the store is inherently unfair or unjust.  Most people will finish the various pve/ pvp events that give the required covers with at least a day left in shield training.  Thats more than enough time to play the event from 0 covers.

360 cp is actually very cheap from this perspective.  They will do this every new release.  Once people realize the costs and expectations are fixed.  i.e. shield training will always have this format.  people will shift and save resources so its not an impulse buy, but part of a sustainable farm

broll

Orion said:

Phumade said:

Meh,  Its a blatant cash grab/paywall  but they are being completely upfront about it.

But the problem is this time you can't spend your way to a ME Hulk.  There are no tokens to buy that have him right now.  So my 2/2/3 ME Hulk is not going to get any bigger unless I spend 360 CP to add 3 covers to him.  And unless I join a buy club or 3, 360 CP is going to cost me $5100.

That's not a cash grab.  That's plain incompetence and a fundamental misunderstanding of how their own game works.

They've admitted on Discord that was an oopsie doodle and they'll try not to have it happen again.  They shouldn't be in training before their available from packs.