Alsmir said: The rockett said: Alsmir said: The rockett said: D4Ni13 said: (...) Thank You for answering and Yes it does. I see a lot of people commenting on what needs to be done to the PVP system to find out they have 2 champed 4* an play causally. My point is if you play causally why should your causal play dictated the change in PVP when it effects the hard core top 10/25 ally's. That is the point I have been trying to make time and time again. The people complaining and wanting the change are hurting the high end 4*/5* players more than you know. I will post some TRUE data here very soon to show my point. I am fine trying to expand the game to get more to play PVP, but this is not the way. in fact, they wanted to increase the usage of Shields and HP and this will have the direct opposite of it. True data? Numbers pulled from the forum and Line? Perhaps do you have a data about all player base? https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/68392/category-5-pvp-information-from-s4#latest It's a start, but right now you have some info about just S4 and you ignore everyone who didn't make 1200. That's quite bad.
The rockett said: Alsmir said: The rockett said: D4Ni13 said: (...) Thank You for answering and Yes it does. I see a lot of people commenting on what needs to be done to the PVP system to find out they have 2 champed 4* an play causally. My point is if you play causally why should your causal play dictated the change in PVP when it effects the hard core top 10/25 ally's. That is the point I have been trying to make time and time again. The people complaining and wanting the change are hurting the high end 4*/5* players more than you know. I will post some TRUE data here very soon to show my point. I am fine trying to expand the game to get more to play PVP, but this is not the way. in fact, they wanted to increase the usage of Shields and HP and this will have the direct opposite of it. True data? Numbers pulled from the forum and Line? Perhaps do you have a data about all player base? https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/68392/category-5-pvp-information-from-s4#latest
Alsmir said: The rockett said: D4Ni13 said: (...) Thank You for answering and Yes it does. I see a lot of people commenting on what needs to be done to the PVP system to find out they have 2 champed 4* an play causally. My point is if you play causally why should your causal play dictated the change in PVP when it effects the hard core top 10/25 ally's. That is the point I have been trying to make time and time again. The people complaining and wanting the change are hurting the high end 4*/5* players more than you know. I will post some TRUE data here very soon to show my point. I am fine trying to expand the game to get more to play PVP, but this is not the way. in fact, they wanted to increase the usage of Shields and HP and this will have the direct opposite of it. True data? Numbers pulled from the forum and Line? Perhaps do you have a data about all player base?
The rockett said: D4Ni13 said: (...) Thank You for answering and Yes it does. I see a lot of people commenting on what needs to be done to the PVP system to find out they have 2 champed 4* an play causally. My point is if you play causally why should your causal play dictated the change in PVP when it effects the hard core top 10/25 ally's. That is the point I have been trying to make time and time again. The people complaining and wanting the change are hurting the high end 4*/5* players more than you know. I will post some TRUE data here very soon to show my point. I am fine trying to expand the game to get more to play PVP, but this is not the way. in fact, they wanted to increase the usage of Shields and HP and this will have the direct opposite of it.
D4Ni13 said: (...)
Vhailorx said: broll said: xKOBALTx said: broll said: Vhailorx said: The top tier players used all the vintage 4* covers they got from finishing top 10 regularly, PLUS they got all the super powerful current 12 4*s up to 350+. I completely disagree with your post. I was pretty early in my 4* transition when vaulting came out and I feel it skyrocketed me to the point where I’m already knocking on the 5* door. I didn’t have to sell anything, no clue where that notion comes from. It gave me months of time where I got 0 4* cover / CP cover waste. Yes my vintage rates slowed but through other means (BH, 3* champ rewards, H4H, event rewards, etc) they continued to move forward at a much more predictable rate that was easily manageable. The theory is interesting. I personally don’t give the devs that much credit that vaulting was always temporary. In your complete disagreement, I think you're overlooking the most important piece to the counterargument. So, you made good progress on champing the latest It's great that lots of 4* transitioners got their carol or Medusa up to 275. Those characters have about 33k when boosted, and carol does maybe 25k with her black. The top tier players got their carol and medusa up to 370, when boosted to 450+ Carol has something closer to 60k health and does 50k with her black (those of you that have her that high please correct my numbers since I am sure that I am off a bit). Do you really think you made progress by adding some 270 champs?
broll said: xKOBALTx said: broll said: Vhailorx said: The top tier players used all the vintage 4* covers they got from finishing top 10 regularly, PLUS they got all the super powerful current 12 4*s up to 350+. I completely disagree with your post. I was pretty early in my 4* transition when vaulting came out and I feel it skyrocketed me to the point where I’m already knocking on the 5* door. I didn’t have to sell anything, no clue where that notion comes from. It gave me months of time where I got 0 4* cover / CP cover waste. Yes my vintage rates slowed but through other means (BH, 3* champ rewards, H4H, event rewards, etc) they continued to move forward at a much more predictable rate that was easily manageable. The theory is interesting. I personally don’t give the devs that much credit that vaulting was always temporary. In your complete disagreement, I think you're overlooking the most important piece to the counterargument. So, you made good progress on champing the latest
xKOBALTx said: broll said: Vhailorx said: The top tier players used all the vintage 4* covers they got from finishing top 10 regularly, PLUS they got all the super powerful current 12 4*s up to 350+. I completely disagree with your post. I was pretty early in my 4* transition when vaulting came out and I feel it skyrocketed me to the point where I’m already knocking on the 5* door. I didn’t have to sell anything, no clue where that notion comes from. It gave me months of time where I got 0 4* cover / CP cover waste. Yes my vintage rates slowed but through other means (BH, 3* champ rewards, H4H, event rewards, etc) they continued to move forward at a much more predictable rate that was easily manageable. The theory is interesting. I personally don’t give the devs that much credit that vaulting was always temporary. In your complete disagreement, I think you're overlooking the most important piece to the counterargument. So, you made good progress on champing the latest
broll said: Vhailorx said: The top tier players used all the vintage 4* covers they got from finishing top 10 regularly, PLUS they got all the super powerful current 12 4*s up to 350+. I completely disagree with your post. I was pretty early in my 4* transition when vaulting came out and I feel it skyrocketed me to the point where I’m already knocking on the 5* door. I didn’t have to sell anything, no clue where that notion comes from. It gave me months of time where I got 0 4* cover / CP cover waste. Yes my vintage rates slowed but through other means (BH, 3* champ rewards, H4H, event rewards, etc) they continued to move forward at a much more predictable rate that was easily manageable. The theory is interesting. I personally don’t give the devs that much credit that vaulting was always temporary.
Vhailorx said: The top tier players used all the vintage 4* covers they got from finishing top 10 regularly, PLUS they got all the super powerful current 12 4*s up to 350+.
BearVenger said: I dislike these "what the devs were going for" quasi-philosophical threads where we take a hoped-for premise and torture the facts to fit them, because understanding devs' motives shouldn't be this difficult. We're not excavating ancient scrolls here. If the devs wanted to be straightforward about what changes they wanted from the playerbase, they could have had @Brigby post a release.
The rockett said: how can I get more data? I am not in S1-2-3-5. I can only see this slice and its not easy to get this together. I only play S4 pvp and if another big ally wants to try and get this for S1/2/3/5, then I can add it to
D4Ni13 said: BearVenger said: I dislike these "what the devs were going for" quasi-philosophical threads where we take a hoped-for premise and torture the facts to fit them, because understanding devs' motives... Fair enough. I would have liked an official explanation too, but unfortunately we didn't get any. (Don't worry though, I will refrain from posting this kind of things in the future) D4ni: Much respect for your response. I can't address the larger post now, but I just wanted to add that my experience wasn't lacking 5*-champed teams.
D4Ni13 said: BearVenger said: I dislike these "what the devs were going for" quasi-philosophical threads where we take a hoped-for premise and torture the facts to fit them, because understanding devs' motives... Fair enough. I would have liked an official explanation too, but unfortunately we didn't get any. (Don't worry though, I will refrain from posting this kind of things in the future)
BearVenger said: I dislike these "what the devs were going for" quasi-philosophical threads where we take a hoped-for premise and torture the facts to fit them, because understanding devs' motives...
Ruinate said: Title of the thread is a "...a better future". Most of the folk here, and certainly most of the folk happy with this change are the 4* players. Their future is 5* level play where CP has been placed out of reach for many. So when vets say something like - "you won't like this change in the future because CP has been removed from prog", the rebuttal is something along the lines of "well I have no interest in t10 or 5* level play so it doesn't affect me."Can somebody walk me through OP's terrible logic?
aesthetocyst said: Spudgutter said: The rockett said: how can I get more data? I am not in S1-2-3-5. I can only see this slice and its not easy to get this together. I only play S4 pvp and if another big ally wants to try and get this for S1/2/3/5, then I can add it to Can you update the format? On mobile and it is juat a mess of numbers, so i can't make heads or tails of it. Can you ise a spreadsheet or something? And no offense, i know you aren't trying to cherry pick because it is the slice you normally play, but isn't choosing the slice that has always had abnormally high points, for a new xman release for t5, going to give you skewed data? More data sets can be produced 3x a week.I randomly jumped in a bracket in the slice i am most familiar with for this event. Scores were 10-20% higher, there were several unfamiliar names and some of that was the new toon horse race.What was very different was how deep the higher scores went.This will continue, as placement is more contested under this system. Under the old system, many strong players were satisfied via progression alone. So long as CP is The Only Resource That Matters, and The Only Resource That Matters is found in placements, competition will be up, burnout will be up.The candle that burns twice as bright and at both ends ... Short term gain for loss of longterm players. Avg acct age and lifetime value of accts are key metrics in this model.
Spudgutter said: The rockett said: how can I get more data? I am not in S1-2-3-5. I can only see this slice and its not easy to get this together. I only play S4 pvp and if another big ally wants to try and get this for S1/2/3/5, then I can add it to Can you update the format? On mobile and it is juat a mess of numbers, so i can't make heads or tails of it. Can you ise a spreadsheet or something? And no offense, i know you aren't trying to cherry pick because it is the slice you normally play, but isn't choosing the slice that has always had abnormally high points, for a new xman release for t5, going to give you skewed data?
Alsmir said: Vaulting introduced- vets with fully champed classic 4* "The change is great, stop whining."CL based level scaling in PvE - vets with champed 5* who now make clears in 50% time in CL7 "Great change, stop whining". 5* essentials in CL7 - vets "Great change"PvP change that benefits 3*-4* players, but is bad for vets "Horrible!/Will quit!/Will not spend!/The game will die!" paired with "You like it? What's your roster? How much do you play? How often did you reach full prog in PvP? Never? Then your opinion is irrelevant, hush!"MPQ sure has a special kind of community. Honestly, despite so many changes that we had, that benefited vets/5* players, I felt sorry for them when win-based got introduced. I was well aware that top players in PvP earned 1200 points with less effort than 40 wins. Now they have to grind way more.My sympathy was gone about 5 minutes after reading the forums. There is very little real discussion. Plenty of screams and threats, but most importantly: levels of egoism that I've never seen before.
BoyWonder1914 said: Ruinate said: Title of the thread is a "...a better future". Most of the folk here, and certainly most of the folk happy with this change are the 4* players. Their future is 5* level play where CP has been placed out of reach for many. So when vets say something like - "you won't like this change in the future because CP has been removed from prog", the rebuttal is something along the lines of "well I have no interest in t10 or 5* level play so it doesn't affect me."Can somebody walk me through OP's terrible logic? I've argued this point to death, and it's exhausting. My personal irritation with people who aren't on the high end of the 4* roster scale or in 5* land thinking they have a place to speak on the issues that affect those tiers aside, people somehow fail to realize that the end game here is improving your roster. This by default means that your roster will eventually breakthrough to a higher tier, and all these concerns that you consider far and away right now, will eventually affect you. Therefore, you're actually getting a better "now", for a worse "future". But people are so happy to mindlessly slog to their 40 wins, for the simple fact that 900 points felt "out of reach". Now you finally get your 900 points, or hell, even your 1200 points, and what does it mean? NOTHING. No CP, and you better hope that you hit your 40 wins already on the way there (most vet players will have not), or you've got some more grinding to do. And if you've got that many points, good luck finding something "easy". If all these people had even ONE taste of what it's like to get those same rewards for half the effort, I can guarantee they wouldn't be raving about how great this is. Or better yet, if they even realized how insignificant that one cover is in the grand scheme of their 4-star development. Say it does actually end up being that one cover they need to champ a 4-star character.......ok? You champ that 4-star character, and now you're one step closer to sharing in the collective misery of boosted 4-star MMR. The lack of foresight is frustrating to say the least.
morgh said: I came back into the game at day ~330 after what I think was a 2.5 year break if not longer - I left at a point when XF got nerfed hard but was still viable to be paired up with 4-Thor. When I left I was able to easily get t5 whenever I wanted - all it required was a few shield hops. But now my best team (with ONLY two 4* at 270) became the rock bottom of the feeding pile I was (and still am) THE cupcake for everyone whenever I went over 700. In the last 2 months or so I got to 900 maybe 3 times... usually I got shot down hard around 860, when it was just a win away. I wasn't mad - I understood that my best team is a really easy and fast target for people with all the new, flashy teams (being either high champed 4*rocket+guardians or 2 from Medusa/Carnage/Carol + featured). Although I am able to defeat such teams with my 4or + Im40, it comes at healthpack cost, sometimes causes me a wipe and in best case scenario - is just too long - even for shield hopping. So I didn't shield hop... I couldn't even see "grills" at 800 so the Line rooms were not of any help... Now - this change is like a breath of fresh air to me - I can at a leisure pace get to 40 wins by playing those ~13 games every day, and I am guaranteed progression better then my 2* farm progression Sure - I am definitely locked out of t10 and CP, but I sure as hell was not able to get to 1200 previously.I do understand that people with high champed 4*'s or maybe some 5*'s are not being able to get their 10 CP from 1200 every time now, but would dare saying that there are many more people who are now able to get that 4* and progress steadily... needs of majority vs minority? something like that... What you are saying is "yeah, but you guys will hate this change in a year or two when you get your all 4*'s champed and get to champing 5's and stuff"... but really? 1 or 2 years? This game might not exist then anymore or might be totally and completely revamped... shouldn't we worry about that when we get there and rather enjoy what we have now?And the highest tier just got their growth slowed A BIT - not halted completely... I see people with hoards consisting of a hundred or more LTs and >2000 CP... oh come on - I don't think you should be crying so loudly about a small decrease in speed of power gain... if anything - you do have the option to go into shield hopping wars so maybe try it - I know many people still get t10 and their CP...
morgh said: So this speeds up a bit people from 3->4 and maybe those developing their 4*, but slows down progress to 5* and development of 5*... well that would mean that they have no intention of going to 6* which is a good thing.I understand that in the long run I might come to look at this change with sorrow and miss that 45 CP a week, but to be honest - even without that reward the CP intake ain't that terrible... and it seems a good reward for those who are willing to spend a lot on shield hopping (which I bet was the reason it was not put into simple progression at for example 55 wins or more) - when we aint sure what the deal is about, we can be sure it is about money