Category-5 PVP information from S4

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The rockett
The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
edited October 2017 in MPQ General Discussion

I have been very vocal about the changes in PVP and how removing the CPs from progression and into placement rewards was a bad idea.  If you know me, I play S4 PVP at a higher level, even if you don't play the same way I do you know I am here all the time.  This information is about trying to show why this was a bad idea.  Everybody says, "Show the data" when making an argument against or for this change, well I got the data.  Here is a breakdown of what S4 looked like last event.  This isn't about the scores, it is about who missed out on the CP's at 1200, which was a bad move. 

4.8.14.8.24.8.34.8.44.8.54.8.64.7.14.7.24.7.34.6.14.6.24.5.1
Top 5 score492730104370422544072231352234983912214118302542
Top 10 score129312211913275323791597141822082322187312491422
Lowest we can see with 12001293122112801254132015051328126812451378made 1200 ended with 11891250
Rank of lowest above 120010th10th14th24th15th12th11th22nd22nd13th10th11th


As you can see, we had 42 people hit 1200 (CP's in the old system) and not get top 10 for the CPs for placement.  Also, none got top 10 without 1200.  We had only 6 brackets for SL8, 3 for SL7, 2 for SL6 and 1 for SL5.  in SL 5 there were duel champed 5* players in this bracket.  In SL5 since it never had a 4* cover before (same as SL6), D3/Demi decided to push these CPs down this far so they can say "Hey we are giving more out.  Well, some players will make sacrifice for less rewards to get the CPs which in turn will not let lower rosters in SL5/6 get the CP's.  This is not the players fault, this was forced onto us by D3/Demi with this change.  I think I might track this data from S4 for the season if I really feel like it.  So, here is the data on why this was such a bad idea and why this will hurt the players long term growth in the game. 


P.S.-Yes @gmp72 is did this while grinding PVE. LOL

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Comments

  • madoctor
    madoctor Posts: 292 Mover and Shaker
    edited October 2017
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    Not to mention a lot of players who didn't go for 1200 because there "is no 1200 reward".

    I was in a 4.7, and I did my one hop to 1187. Didn't bother for 1200 (which I go for) because I got my 40 wins and I would have stayed T25 no matter what (Ended 24th). No shot at T10 (at 2.3k).

    I fear your numbers in fact don't even show the full extent of the issue. Which is scary considering if you look at the stats

    EDIT : As pointed out in another thread, maybe some players from other slices can chip in to help gather the info?
  • Sandmaker
    Sandmaker Posts: 208 Tile Toppler
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    Another way to look at is that it is 42 people out of 6000 people, which is less than 1% of players... 
  • AlexxKats
    AlexxKats Posts: 99 Match Maker
    edited October 2017
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    Sandmaker said:
    Another way to look at is that it is 42 people out of 6000 people, which is less than 1% of players... 
    Yes. 1% of the 5% of the end game content players. Oh, those that play this game 3+ years. You know, after all those veterans that had enough and quit paying this game (at all or too much). Great job rewarding the loyal ones. You know? The ones that supported this game all this time both directly and indirectly?
  • Pants1000
    Pants1000 Posts: 484 Mover and Shaker
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    I'd be interested to see this data for all slices.  Slice 4 has a lot of high scores and cooperation.

    In my 5.7 slice, the top 5 had 1200+, but 6-10 had scores between 1028 and 1176.  That's 5 people who got the CP that wouldn't have under the old system.

    I'm sure the devs are looking at all slices.  I'm still hoping they open CL9 next season with CP going to t25 or t50.
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
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    Not sure the bracket,  but in my SCL 8, slice 5 bracket there were 3 people over 1,200 that did not make the top 10. And at least 7 more within striking distance of that number. My guess, like others have stated, is that they secured their position and didn't need to push for 1,200 since its no longer rewarding.
  • mohio
    mohio Posts: 1,690 Chairperson of the Boards
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    My BC in s5 tracks brackets so we may be able to do something similar for s5 (at least cl7 and 8). I know top scores were way up, where they used to be in the 1400 range, they were now going up to 1600+. In any event, I had a busy weekend (as usual) and had to join late. I played in 5.7 and joined with about 4.5 hours left. My initial climb took 21 matches to hit 1184. Then in the last hour I wanted to keep t5 for a single nightcrawler cover so I did a 2 match hop to 1312. 23 matches and 1312 points...what a ridiculous system. 

    As for the rest of the bracket - it's obviously just one of many, but my t5 cutoff was 1237 (6th was 1185), t10 cutoff was 1000. So, I guess more players in this bracket are getting the cp than would have under the old system, but as another poster mentions above, the numbers are deceiving since some of the guys/gals that stopped at 1k+ would have hopped once or twice more for that 1200 prize if it actually existed.
  • AlexxKats
    AlexxKats Posts: 99 Match Maker
    edited October 2017
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    Pants1000 said:
    I'd be interested to see this data for all slices.  Slice 4 has a lot of high scores and cooperation.

    In my 5.7 slice, the top 5 had 1200+, but 6-10 had scores between 1028 and 1176.  That's 5 people who got the CP that wouldn't have under the old system.

    I'm sure the devs are looking at all slices.  I'm still hoping they open CL9 next season with CP going to t25 or t50.
    There is one of the problems. If you put the same value on cl1 that new day 1 players play (day 2 they are already cl2) with cl8, then you have a bad "weightless" data set.

    Another is practically robbing people of the guaranteed 15 cp we got at 1200.

    Another is requiring more effort (over double) to get that 4* in progression. Which probably derived from weightless data as well
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
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    3.8, came in 11th with 1165 and 28 wins.  Top 10 went from 1334 to 3200.  Had i played the event to 40, i may have gotten top 10, who knows.  Had stuff to do and was concentrating on pve.  

    Tinfoil hat time, do you think they are attempting to spread out the top end players and points?  Everyone knows that slice 4 has a bunch of points, even the devs.  Either that, or it will be an unintended consequence. 
  • ThePunishers
    ThePunishers Posts: 50 Match Maker
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    S2 mmr breaks a lot faster and it isn’t as crowded, super easy to get 40 wins there for all those rosters interested.  Placement is easier there as well.  
  • AlexxKats
    AlexxKats Posts: 99 Match Maker
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    ThePunishers said:
    S2 mmr breaks a lot faster and it isn’t as crowded, super easy to get 40 wins there for all those rosters interested.  Placement is easier there as well.  
    You forgot the "Masochists Welcomed!" sign, but as it's true that mmr breaks easier there ;)
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I played 1.8, ended with 1147 points with 40 wins. I floated the whole event until about 8 hrs left then used an 8 hr shield to preserve some type of placement. I ended up 26th. 23rd place was where the 1200 scores started. I normally would have hopped at the end to get 1200 for the cp but there was no point, obviously. To get top 5 in my bracket you needed 2.5k points, top 10- 2k. 1200 has been easy enough for me, but I don't have the time to compete for top 10. I'm solidly in the group that is losing out on 15 cp every event.....
  • mohio
    mohio Posts: 1,690 Chairperson of the Boards
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    AlexxKats said:
    Pants1000 said:
    I'd be interested to see this data for all slices.  Slice 4 has a lot of high scores and cooperation.

    In my 5.7 slice, the top 5 had 1200+, but 6-10 had scores between 1028 and 1176.  That's 5 people who got the CP that wouldn't have under the old system.

    I'm sure the devs are looking at all slices.  I'm still hoping they open CL9 next season with CP going to t25 or t50.
    There is one of the problems. If you put the same value on cl1 that new day 1 players play (day 2 they are already cl2) with cl8, then you have a bad "weightless" data set.

    Another is practically robbing people of the guaranteed 15 cp we got at 1200.

    Another is requiring more effort (over double) to get that 4* in progression. Which probably derived from weightless data as well
    I don't think he so much means CL1-4 as much as slice 1, 2, 5 (since we all know 3 and 4 are generally the highest scoring). As y'all probably figured out from my earlier post I nearly always play s5. I have slummed it in CL6 before and I was the only player to break 1200. I have seen many CL7 and CL8 brackets that only had 6 or 7 players break 1200 since we try to fill brackets evenly and get as many people t5 as possible. So from my s5 perspective, it's at least somewhat easy to see the devs claim that CP will go out to more people, since s5 is generally a lower scoring slice. 

    That said, I would still agree with your statement, and even just looking at CL5 and 6 compared to CL 7 and 8 in the past is a silly thing to do and will give you terrible data if you want to take it all together as one block. The fact that this is driving people to CL5 and CL6 that should never be there is evidence enough that the system has huge flaws.
  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
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    We had several on our team over 2.5k who failed to get cp. 
  • RemoDestroyer
    RemoDestroyer Posts: 277 Mover and Shaker
    edited October 2017
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    In my 4.8 bracket i finished #24 was the lowest placement over 1200 points with 1254. #5 had 4225 points and #10 had 2753 points. So 14 missed out on cp they would have received in the previous event and who knows how many that were close to 1200 didn't bother trying to get more points.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Since I did this on my computer and posted in here, i
    saw that on mobile it looked terrible. Let me see if this looks better. 

    all the numbers will go as follows 
    top 5 score
    top 10 score
    lowest score with 1200
    rank of lowest 1200

    4.8.1
    4927
    1293
    1293
    10th

    4.8.2
    3010
    1221
    1221
    10th

    4.8.3
    4370
    1913
    1280
    14th

    4.8.4
    4225
    2753
    1254
    24th

    4.8.5
    4407
    2379
    1320
    15th

    4.8.6
    2231
    1597
    1505
    12th

    4.7.1
    3522
    1418
    1328
    11th

    4.7.2
    3498
    2208
    1268
    22nd

    4.7.3
    3912
    2322
    1245
    22nd

    4.6.1
    2141
    1873
    1378
    13th

    4.6.2
    1830
    1249
    1189(got hit at end)
    10th

    4.5.1
    2542
    1422
    1250
    11th
  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
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    So basically if you want cp in a competitive bracket go for 3k
  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
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    What a slog

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