Category-5 PVP information from S4

The rockett

I have been very vocal about the changes in PVP and how removing the CPs from progression and into placement rewards was a bad idea.  If you know me, I play S4 PVP at a higher level, even if you don't play the same way I do you know I am here all the time.  This information is about trying to show why this was a bad idea.  Everybody says, "Show the data" when making an argument against or for this change, well I got the data.  Here is a breakdown of what S4 looked like last event.  This isn't about the scores, it is about who missed out on the CP's at 1200, which was a bad move. 

	4.8.1	4.8.2	4.8.3	4.8.4	4.8.5	4.8.6	4.7.1	4.7.2	4.7.3	4.6.1	4.6.2	4.5.1
Top 5 score	4927	3010	4370	4225	4407	2231	3522	3498	3912	2141	1830	2542
Top 10 score	1293	1221	1913	2753	2379	1597	1418	2208	2322	1873	1249	1422
Lowest we can see with 1200	1293	1221	1280	1254	1320	1505	1328	1268	1245	1378	made 1200 ended with 1189	1250
Rank of lowest above 1200	10th	10th	14th	24th	15th	12th	11th	22nd	22nd	13th	10th	11th

As you can see, we had 42 people hit 1200 (CP's in the old system) and not get top 10 for the CPs for placement.  Also, none got top 10 without 1200.  We had only 6 brackets for SL8, 3 for SL7, 2 for SL6 and 1 for SL5.  in SL 5 there were duel champed 5* players in this bracket.  In SL5 since it never had a 4* cover before (same as SL6), D3/Demi decided to push these CPs down this far so they can say "Hey we are giving more out.  Well, some players will make sacrifice for less rewards to get the CPs which in turn will not let lower rosters in SL5/6 get the CP's.  This is not the players fault, this was forced onto us by D3/Demi with this change.  I think I might track this data from S4 for the season if I really feel like it.  So, here is the data on why this was such a bad idea and why this will hurt the players long term growth in the game. 

P.S.-Yes @gmp72 is did this while grinding PVE. LOL

gmp72

Couldn't agree more.
Moving CP to placement ranks as one of the worst ideas in the game, EVER.
You need to realise you have a massive player base unhappy with this change at the moment.
Maybe one of the devs or relevant people should stop by the LINE mpq community and speak to some of the players who have only been playing this game for 4+ years now.
It would be wise to listen to their cries.

madoctor

Not to mention a lot of players who didn't go for 1200 because there "is no 1200 reward".

I was in a 4.7, and I did my one hop to 1187. Didn't bother for 1200 (which I go for) because I got my 40 wins and I would have stayed T25 no matter what (Ended 24th). No shot at T10 (at 2.3k).

I fear your numbers in fact don't even show the full extent of the issue. Which is scary considering if you look at the stats

EDIT : As pointed out in another thread, maybe some players from other slices can chip in to help gather the info?

RemoDestroyer

I was in slice 4. Out of health packs I shielded out with just under 8 hours remaining. I finished with 22 wins and 1098 points. No chance at the 4* cover at that point and at the time 1300 points behind #10 I had no chance at placement cp either. I would have absolutely shield hopped past 1200 points if the cp was still there but instead I decided I was done and watched Sunday night football.

Edit: I was also in cl8. When I got to 16 wins for the 10 cp I was also at 890 points. Stinks adjusting for this change. It's like getting the old 575 point progression reward when I would have been 1 match away from a 4* cover.

AlexxKats

What would also be nice would be if anyone can post a screenshot of where 1200 line was (t50ish or so for s4 cl8 more often than not) prior to this idiotic change, so more will be able to see how many are missing those 15 cp per pvp. other Shards data old and current are welcomed as well (s3 is always high scoring too, s1 has had it's days too, and 1.2k+ in s2 and s5 isn't fantasy but numbers i've seen half the time)

I kept a screenshot of when i hit 40 wins to get that 4* cover this pvp. North of 2300 points (900 points old system), and that due to hitting many 30 pointers until 600 points.

best solution directed at devs: add the *or* in your stupid grindy system. Allow us that play pvp and can generate shard points to climb to 1.2k and get our rewards, allow people that want to grind 2*/3*/4* fights (cause some of us only fight max champed 4*s or dual 5*s and it ain't pretty) to grind to X fights to get their rewards to build up roster. And make X less than 30.

And a little something about those that tend to judge based only on their personal playstyle: Most of the people that support this change without regard to those that were getting those rewards easier seem to forget that we've been in this game for 3+ years, and have been through hell to build up roster, and often help newer guys to build up their roster more efficiently and faster. Know that when we talk about something being bad for the game, we do so considering all the steps of roster progression, because we've already been there - and trust me, it was way worse than you have it now.

Sandmaker

Another way to look at is that it is 42 people out of 6000 people, which is less than 1% of players... 

AlexxKats

Sandmaker said:

Another way to look at is that it is 42 people out of 6000 people, which is less than 1% of players... 

Yes. 1% of the 5% of the end game content players. Oh, those that play this game 3+ years. You know, after all those veterans that had enough and quit paying this game (at all or too much). Great job rewarding the loyal ones. You know? The ones that supported this game all this time both directly and indirectly?

Pants1000

I'd be interested to see this data for all slices.  Slice 4 has a lot of high scores and cooperation.

In my 5.7 slice, the top 5 had 1200+, but 6-10 had scores between 1028 and 1176.  That's 5 people who got the CP that wouldn't have under the old system.

I'm sure the devs are looking at all slices.  I'm still hoping they open CL9 next season with CP going to t25 or t50.

Beer40

Not sure the bracket,  but in my SCL 8, slice 5 bracket there were 3 people over 1,200 that did not make the top 10. And at least 7 more within striking distance of that number. My guess, like others have stated, is that they secured their position and didn't need to push for 1,200 since its no longer rewarding.

mohio

My BC in s5 tracks brackets so we may be able to do something similar for s5 (at least cl7 and 8). I know top scores were way up, where they used to be in the 1400 range, they were now going up to 1600+. In any event, I had a busy weekend (as usual) and had to join late. I played in 5.7 and joined with about 4.5 hours left. My initial climb took 21 matches to hit 1184. Then in the last hour I wanted to keep t5 for a single nightcrawler cover so I did a 2 match hop to 1312. 23 matches and 1312 points...what a ridiculous system. 

As for the rest of the bracket - it's obviously just one of many, but my t5 cutoff was 1237 (6th was 1185), t10 cutoff was 1000. So, I guess more players in this bracket are getting the cp than would have under the old system, but as another poster mentions above, the numbers are deceiving since some of the guys/gals that stopped at 1k+ would have hopped once or twice more for that 1200 prize if it actually existed.

AlexxKats

Pants1000 said:

I'd be interested to see this data for all slices.  Slice 4 has a lot of high scores and cooperation.

In my 5.7 slice, the top 5 had 1200+, but 6-10 had scores between 1028 and 1176.  That's 5 people who got the CP that wouldn't have under the old system.

I'm sure the devs are looking at all slices.  I'm still hoping they open CL9 next season with CP going to t25 or t50.

There is one of the problems. If you put the same value on cl1 that new day 1 players play (day 2 they are already cl2) with cl8, then you have a bad "weightless" data set.

Another is practically robbing people of the guaranteed 15 cp we got at 1200.

Another is requiring more effort (over double) to get that 4* in progression. Which probably derived from weightless data as well

Spudgutter

3.8, came in 11th with 1165 and 28 wins.  Top 10 went from 1334 to 3200.  Had i played the event to 40, i may have gotten top 10, who knows.  Had stuff to do and was concentrating on pve.  

Tinfoil hat time, do you think they are attempting to spread out the top end players and points?  Everyone knows that slice 4 has a bunch of points, even the devs.  Either that, or it will be an unintended consequence. 

ThePunishers

S2 mmr breaks a lot faster and it isn’t as crowded, super easy to get 40 wins there for all those rosters interested.  Placement is easier there as well.  

AlexxKats

ThePunishers said:

S2 mmr breaks a lot faster and it isn’t as crowded, super easy to get 40 wins there for all those rosters interested.  Placement is easier there as well.  

You forgot the "Masochists Welcomed!" sign, but as it's true that mmr breaks easier there

Milk Jugz

I played 1.8, ended with 1147 points with 40 wins. I floated the whole event until about 8 hrs left then used an 8 hr shield to preserve some type of placement. I ended up 26th. 23rd place was where the 1200 scores started. I normally would have hopped at the end to get 1200 for the cp but there was no point, obviously. To get top 5 in my bracket you needed 2.5k points, top 10- 2k. 1200 has been easy enough for me, but I don't have the time to compete for top 10. I'm solidly in the group that is losing out on 15 cp every event.....

mohio

AlexxKats said:

Pants1000 said:

I'd be interested to see this data for all slices.  Slice 4 has a lot of high scores and cooperation.

In my 5.7 slice, the top 5 had 1200+, but 6-10 had scores between 1028 and 1176.  That's 5 people who got the CP that wouldn't have under the old system.

I'm sure the devs are looking at all slices.  I'm still hoping they open CL9 next season with CP going to t25 or t50.

There is one of the problems. If you put the same value on cl1 that new day 1 players play (day 2 they are already cl2) with cl8, then you have a bad "weightless" data set.

Another is practically robbing people of the guaranteed 15 cp we got at 1200.

Another is requiring more effort (over double) to get that 4* in progression. Which probably derived from weightless data as well

I don't think he so much means CL1-4 as much as slice 1, 2, 5 (since we all know 3 and 4 are generally the highest scoring). As y'all probably figured out from my earlier post I nearly always play s5. I have slummed it in CL6 before and I was the only player to break 1200. I have seen many CL7 and CL8 brackets that only had 6 or 7 players break 1200 since we try to fill brackets evenly and get as many people t5 as possible. So from my s5 perspective, it's at least somewhat easy to see the devs claim that CP will go out to more people, since s5 is generally a lower scoring slice. 

That said, I would still agree with your statement, and even just looking at CL5 and 6 compared to CL 7 and 8 in the past is a silly thing to do and will give you terrible data if you want to take it all together as one block. The fact that this is driving people to CL5 and CL6 that should never be there is evidence enough that the system has huge flaws.

corytutor

We had several on our team over 2.5k who failed to get cp. 

RemoDestroyer

In my 4.8 bracket i finished #24 was the lowest placement over 1200 points with 1254. #5 had 4225 points and #10 had 2753 points. So 14 missed out on cp they would have received in the previous event and who knows how many that were close to 1200 didn't bother trying to get more points.

The rockett

Since I did this on my computer and posted in here, i
saw that on mobile it looked terrible. Let me see if this looks better. 

all the numbers will go as follows 
top 5 score
top 10 score
lowest score with 1200
rank of lowest 1200

4.8.1
4927
1293
1293
10th

4.8.2
3010
1221
1221
10th

4.8.3
4370
1913
1280
14th

4.8.4
4225
2753
1254
24th

4.8.5
4407
2379
1320
15th

4.8.6
2231
1597
1505
12th

4.7.1
3522
1418
1328
11th

4.7.2
3498
2208
1268
22nd

4.7.3
3912
2322
1245
22nd

4.6.1
2141
1873
1378
13th

4.6.2
1830
1249
1189(got hit at end)
10th

4.5.1
2542
1422
1250
11th

corytutor

So basically if you want cp in a competitive bracket go for 3k

corytutor

What a slog