Category-5 PVP information from S4

13

Comments

  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Welcome Death said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    Welcome Death said:
    Justice Jacks said:
    Welcome Death said:
    Overall more players are getting cp, which is a good thing.
    I think we've largely established that that isn't the case.  So if you still believe it after seeing the above data, I'm going to have to ask you to show your work.
    So one set of samples from 2 clearance levels in one event constitutes fully establishing a fact now?  In s2 only 2 or 3 used to make cp in each bracket.  Last pvp that was all t10, so that's a 70% increase.  In s5 only 4 or 5 make it, last event all 10 got cp, so that's at least a 50% increase.  Never mind lower cl in those shards where 1 or 2 would get it.  Not to mention the fact that s5 by itself experiences 12 bracket flips on average.  Also, people in cl1 are getting cp now, too.  How many in t10 in cl1 made cp before, do you suppose?  More players definitely are getting cp now. Just not necessarily your friends driving scores up to 5,000 points.
    Less people in my 1.8 bracket got CP than they would have in the old system. There are quite a few people posting similar results. So, including the OP breakdown it's more than one set from 2 CLs
    That's your personal experience.  Everyone in my bracket got cp in cl8.  6 wouldn't have in the old system.  Also, I'm talking in terms of the playerbase as a whole, which is how the devs are looking at it.  How many players in cl1-5 used to get cp?  They're all getting it for t10 now, even if its small amounts.
    Ok, so take from the top end, give it to the bottom end, then say more people are getting it. Yes, communism has worked in every form it's ever been tried in.......
  • Zappa
    Zappa Posts: 102 Tile Toppler
    D3 sees your raw data, your logic, your pleas for improvements.....and D3 does not care.
  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
    Zappa said:
    D3 sees your raw data, your logic, your pleas for improvements.....and D3 does not care.
    Maybe because they can see all the data, and not just a sample selected to prove a point?
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    This isn't about the scores, this is about the people that missed the CPs at the old bench mark compared to the new one.  Yes this is only 1 event cause......wait for it......it's only been one event.  How the heck can i have data for more than one event when this is the only one.  Also, when you say more people got the CPs in your bracket, that's great. What about the slice?  1 bracket doesn't make the slice. I will be tracking this more to show. If anybody wants to add to the next post, please do from the other slices.  I really don't care about the wins at 40 or heck make the CP at 50, but put the CPs back in progression and not placement. 

    If you use SL5/6 as an example, I will point out again that SL1-6 never had a chance for the 4* cover in progression. Only way was in 6 in 1st place.  How many 3/4* players got these?  I would imagine 0 since we know some 5* players would drop down to 6 for this. 
  • WelcomeDeath
    WelcomeDeath Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker
    edited October 2017
    The rockett said:
    This isn't about the scores, this is about the people that missed the CPs at the old bench mark compared to the new one.  Yes this is only 1 event cause......wait for it......it's only been one event.  How the heck can i have data for more than one event when this is the only one.  Also, when you say more people got the CPs in your bracket, that's great. What about the slice?  1 bracket doesn't make the slice. I will be tracking this more to show. If anybody wants to add to the next post, please do from the other slices.  I really don't care about the wins at 40 or heck make the CP at 50, but put the CPs back in progression and not placement. 

    If you use SL5/6 as an example, I will point out again that SL1-6 never had a chance for the 4* cover in progression. Only way was in 6 in 1st place.  How many 3/4* players got these?  I would imagine 0 since we know some 5* players would drop down to 6 for this. 
    I'm sorry, let me qualify.  Every single bracket in s5 cl8 saw a 50% increase in people that got cp.  A 70% increase in cl7.  Probably 100% increase in cl6 and cl5.  Manage your brackets better or have less friends.
    Furthermore, ever think that they intentionally created a bottleneck?  Before, if you had 500 people in a bracket and all 500 ate cupcakes to 1.2k, all 500 would get cp.  Part of their job is to gate resources.  None of the pvp changes in the last year and a half would have taken place if people weren't scoring 6,000 points every event.  So maybe stop doing that, too.  You don't get to cause the problem and also whine about the repercussions.
  • Hadronic
    Hadronic Posts: 338 Mover and Shaker
    Justice Jacks said:
    Welcome Death said:
    Overall more players are getting cp, which is a good thing.
    I think we've largely established that that isn't the case.  So if you still believe it after seeing the above data, I'm going to have to ask you to show your work.
    The data above is pulled from events taking place after the change. The changes alone have shifted the way people play PvP. Using the above data doesn't allow you to conclude anything about how the CP was being distributed before the change. Apples and Oranges.

    So you will need to get this same sort of data, but from events that were run before the changes to make any valid conclusions on whether the total CP is in fact more or less than before. Will be tricky, maybe someone has some old data like this for previous events. D3 has this data and they claim that the number of people actually hitting 1200 in the old system was less than the number of folks hitting top10.

    It is very likely that is no longer true in the new system, but that is because people are playing more since its win based.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 6,738 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
    I am going to try to be nice here, but your attempt to gather data, while commendable, won't change anything.

    D3 has sooooo much data about this game.  Everything you and everyone else does can be analyzed, much more easily than gathering data in a thread.  They can look at your username and tell you how many matches you played, for how long, etc etc.  Within about 2 minutes.

    Even if we prove that this is screwing top players out of CP, they will say "So?".

    This change was made to make more rosters feel like they could engage with PVP and achieve something.  End of story.  Do you think all rosters deserve it?  Doesn't matter.  Engagement needs to be up.

    They took CP out of progression to make placement matter to top rosters, and give the top players a reason to fight each other.

    As many say, 5* rosters don't care about the 4* covers in placement.  If they left the old system (CP in progression) and just basically 4* covers at the top, no top roster would shield.  (OK, a couple).  They needed a reason make you chase placement beside bragging rights.

    Shields are money.  Money makes the game continue.

    This change sucks for top rosters, but money. Yeah, money.
  • zahria
    zahria Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    zahria said:
    It's sad that those that want to play PvP but don't have the time to play can no longer just go for progression to get the CP & then # out & be done.  Now everyone is fighting for placement to get the all-important CP.  I've seen some of my alliance teammates be frustrated by this due to their time constraints. While I personally had no issues making the progression & T5, I very clearly remember how important that CP was to growing your roster. THis means that those the can afford to work hard & play the full event will get the progression & placement.  Those with weaker rosters or those in transition to 5* will probably miss out on the CP.  This means that newer players will fall behind unless they spend money to get CP & those with the stronger rosters will pull ahead.  It will likely eventually create a two-tiered system that further separates the haves & have-nots.I think that D3/Demi really needs to reevaluate their progression & how easy it is to get CP.  If not, this will likely slow down the number of new players that play PvP & MPQ in general. And that's the point for D3 - to get new players to help build the base to increase their revenue. 
    I wanted to add to this after my initial post.  Yes, I did say that there will be separating because of needing to buy CP since it's no longer a top progression item.  But there's also the time factor for PvP that I didn't touch on.

    One of my alliance mates Alaorath pointed out to me time constraint & how long we actually spend playing PvP.  You now have to push longer to get those higher scores to ensure you get T10 for the CP in placement because everyone is pushing harder to get placement.  I personally put in about 12 hours of PvP play time for this event.  For an event that lasts just over 2 days, that's a huge time commitment.  This means that you need to grind your wins during your work day & also in the evening since there are only so many hours in the day.  This means that family & friends will likely suffer as we play the game.  For some, this might be a good thing.  For others, real life will take priority. 

    For new players, this will also likely seem daunting. Even veteran players are going to get burnt out from having to push so hard just to keep T10 for that all-important CP. 

    I think there will be more players who go back to PvE instead of PvP since the time constraint is less for PvE. It's no longer a matter of being able to get a decent score & good placement from just playing a few hours as you can afford the time. Or they may move to another slice.  But I think this will ultimately see PvP go downhill. But maybe that was D3/Demi's purpose all along. Make us spend more money on shields & health packs as we try to get those 40 wins.  
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    Hi @the rockett This is some interesting information, info that I plan on passing along to the development team in my weekly report.

    I think the players over in the Events, Tournaments, and Missions section would also appreciate this info, so would you mind if I moved it over there? I'll be sure to leave a redirect link in General Discussion, so players still have that accessibility.
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    This whole discussion could be moot
     All we need is D3 to post up truthful data on CP distribution from both PvP styles. Im sure they have the data. See if they do it.
  • Stax the Foyer
    Stax the Foyer Posts: 941 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2017
    Welcome Death said:
    The rockett said:
    This isn't about the scores, this is about the people that missed the CPs at the old bench mark compared to the new one.  Yes this is only 1 event cause......wait for it......it's only been one event.  How the heck can i have data for more than one event when this is the only one.  Also, when you say more people got the CPs in your bracket, that's great. What about the slice?  1 bracket doesn't make the slice. I will be tracking this more to show. If anybody wants to add to the next post, please do from the other slices.  I really don't care about the wins at 40 or heck make the CP at 50, but put the CPs back in progression and not placement. 

    If you use SL5/6 as an example, I will point out again that SL1-6 never had a chance for the 4* cover in progression. Only way was in 6 in 1st place.  How many 3/4* players got these?  I would imagine 0 since we know some 5* players would drop down to 6 for this. 
    I'm sorry, let me qualify.  Every single bracket in s5 cl8 saw a 50% increase in people that got cp.  A 70% increase in cl7.  Probably 100% increase in cl6 and cl5.  Manage your brackets better or have less friends.
    Furthermore, ever think that they intentionally created a bottleneck?  Before, if you had 500 people in a bracket and all 500 ate cupcakes to 1.2k, all 500 would get cp.  Part of their job is to gate resources.  None of the pvp changes in the last year and a half would have taken place if people weren't scoring 6,000 points every event.  So maybe stop doing that, too.  You don't get to cause the problem and also whine about the repercussions.

    For comparison purposes, the CL5 and CL6 slots that earned CP are, if not apples and oranges, maybe limes and oranges. Those players may get some CP, but won't have access to the 4* progression cover, and have significantly lower ranking rewards than the equivalent CL7 and CL8 slots.

     It's the CL7 and CL8 slots that are really equivalent to 1200 under the old system, because they give the CP and (at least a chance at) the 4* cover.

     Plus, you didn't need to finish at 1200 under the old system to get CP, so it may not be a direct comparison to compare 1200+ finishers under the old system and 1200+ finishers under the new system. There were times when I would finish under 600 and still get the CP and the 4* cover.
  • alphabeta
    alphabeta Posts: 469 Mover and Shaker
    Brigby said:

    I think the players over in the Events, Tournaments, and Missions section would also appreciate this info, so would you mind if I moved it over there? I'll be sure to leave a redirect link in General Discussion, so players still have that accessibility.
    There are players who go to the Events, Tournaments and Missions section.

    Biggest revelation of this thread right there but in honour of Rockett’s dillagence I must ask Mr @Brigby for the data he has to support this assertion :)
  • mkmagius
    mkmagius Posts: 37 Just Dropped In
    Cat5 I played s2.6 only top2 hit 1200. 10th had 901 pts

    For Devil you know I played s2.7. First was 1371. 10th was 1244. 11th and 12th had 1200+. 13th and 14th were close both over 1190. 
  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    Brigby said:
    Hi @the rockett This is some interesting information, info that I plan on passing along to the development team in my weekly report.

    I think the players over in the Events, Tournaments, and Missions section would also appreciate this info, so would you mind if I moved it over there? I'll be sure to leave a redirect link in General Discussion, so players still have that accessibility.
    @Brigby

    Forwarding Rockett's information implies they don't already have it.  If they don't have this kind of data already, how else are they making informed decisions on how to change PVP play?
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    @pheregas When it comes to the chart and data, I'm moreso just forwarding it to them for due diligence, as I'm sure they have already come up with same or similar information. The important aspect that I wanted to relay though was the specific comments and feedback from the players.
  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    Brigby said:
    @pheregas When it comes to the chart and data, I'm moreso just forwarding it to them for due diligence, as I'm sure they have already come up with same or similar information. The important aspect that I wanted to relay though was the specific comments and feedback from the players.
    I know you are fighting the good fight @Brigby. It just seems like the devs are missing the mark a lot lately.  I actually miss playing PVP, but I refuse to spend all my time grinding wins.  If they set the wins to 20 for the 4* and 25 for the CP (assuming that can be brought back), I think a lot of us would be back playing again, or at the very least happier about playing.
  • ZeiramMR
    ZeiramMR Posts: 1,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    pheregas said:
    Brigby said:
    @pheregas When it comes to the chart and data, I'm moreso just forwarding it to them for due diligence, as I'm sure they have already come up with same or similar information. The important aspect that I wanted to relay though was the specific comments and feedback from the players.
    I know you are fighting the good fight @Brigby. It just seems like the devs are missing the mark a lot lately.  I actually miss playing PVP, but I refuse to spend all my time grinding wins.  If they set the wins to 20 for the 4* and 25 for the CP (assuming that can be brought back), I think a lot of us would be back playing again, or at the very least happier about playing.
    When people have the capability of getting the better part of 10 wins from seed teams (I have averaged 8 for the season), there is no way they would make the win counts that low. And I am pretty sure that is a large part of why the 4* is at 40.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    ZeiramMR said:
    pheregas said:
    Brigby said:
    @pheregas When it comes to the chart and data, I'm moreso just forwarding it to them for due diligence, as I'm sure they have already come up with same or similar information. The important aspect that I wanted to relay though was the specific comments and feedback from the players.
    I know you are fighting the good fight @Brigby. It just seems like the devs are missing the mark a lot lately.  I actually miss playing PVP, but I refuse to spend all my time grinding wins.  If they set the wins to 20 for the 4* and 25 for the CP (assuming that can be brought back), I think a lot of us would be back playing again, or at the very least happier about playing.
    When people have the capability of getting the better part of 10 wins from seed teams (I have averaged 8 for the season), there is no way they would make the win counts that low. And I am pretty sure that is a large part of why the 4* is at 40.
    I've never seen more than 3 seeds, even starting at the beginning of the event, always S1.
  • ZeiramMR
    ZeiramMR Posts: 1,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    Milk Jugz said:
    ZeiramMR said:
    pheregas said:
    Brigby said:
    @pheregas When it comes to the chart and data, I'm moreso just forwarding it to them for due diligence, as I'm sure they have already come up with same or similar information. The important aspect that I wanted to relay though was the specific comments and feedback from the players.
    I know you are fighting the good fight @Brigby. It just seems like the devs are missing the mark a lot lately.  I actually miss playing PVP, but I refuse to spend all my time grinding wins.  If they set the wins to 20 for the 4* and 25 for the CP (assuming that can be brought back), I think a lot of us would be back playing again, or at the very least happier about playing.
    When people have the capability of getting the better part of 10 wins from seed teams (I have averaged 8 for the season), there is no way they would make the win counts that low. And I am pretty sure that is a large part of why the 4* is at 40.
    I've never seen more than 3 seeds, even starting at the beginning of the event, always S1.
    Are you pre-loading in the session by clicking on the Event Rewards before the start time?

    Others might have suggestions; I used to not join that early for PVP. But I have been getting more than 3 seed teams during the tests and this season (apart from one test PVP where I couldn't join for an hour).

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