Sacrifice the present for a better future

TheOncomingStorm

I’m not saying op got groups wrong, but they did leave one out that supersedes the others: casual vs hardcore.  I played (overplayed) mpq for about 2 years before the grind did me in.  I tried playing casual, but it was not fun.  I had uninstalled after previous 2 anniversaries iirc.  

Moreover, I’m in a pad group where a bunch of us former mpq players went when we left this game.  We have given mpq more than its share of grief over that time.  The overnerfs, the insane amount of time serious mpq took, the stingy rewards, slim to none compensation for errors, lack of communication, and the ridiculous mmr made any other problems in other games laughable bc at least it wasn’t mpq.  

Now, even as a casual player, I’m having a blast playing mpq.  I’ll never catch up to the end game ppl, I will never be a threat to them or their precious and hard earned rewards, and tbh, it does not bother me.  I just want to be able hop on when I’m bored or have free time and feel like I’m making tangible progress.  

I love the set ups for time slices, tiers, dpdq, special pves, shield pvp, seasons, etc.  I have no problem with the new win system.  I have 2.5 days to get 14 or 16 wins (too lazy to look what the cp progressive is).  That is just genius for the casual player.  That said, it’s fun as long as the mmr I had this event holds up.  I was able to fight other teams just like mine the whole way there.  I may not make the same progress as those that place well, but my progression is tangible.  I can see the progress and feel like my time invested was well spent.

If the new changes do not work out for the top tier vets who pretty much pay for most players to play free or minimal iap, I genuinely hope mpq addresses that for them, so they can receive as much enjoyment as I currently am.

i still do not trust the development team when it comes to nerfing, their track record is abysmal.  They overnerf than cannot be bothered to fix the situation in a timely fashion if at all.  That said, I’m willing to give mpq another shot, and I’m not going to uninstall this year.  So thanks for good work done.

Ign: HeroPsychoDrmr

animaniactoo

I believe that vaulting was much less about narrowing the tiers than it was about solving another issue, namely that matches with older characters were taking an insane amount of time. A lot of the recent development over the past year has been towards characters that can do a lot of damage early, and for less ap cost if it's an active power.

I think that vaulting was about getting those characters into players' hands as fast as possible to address that issue before more people decided this game was just taking up too much of their time/lives and gave it up.

I believe the Wins based system is an attempt to address a fundamentally flawed PVP system and I'm in, but I think they've got further to go with it. If there's a hurry-up goal as I believe there was with vaulting, I wish they'd come out and say it because they'd get much different feedback and cooperation from the playerbase.

From my standpoint as somebody who does PD, I think the WB PVP is more about getting casual or newer players engaged beyond "hit the 3 seed teams early/late in the slice and be done". Frankly, I think they'd get a lot further if they combined it with SCLs actually meaning something beyond which rewards you can earn, the same as they changed the PVE. Potentially I suspect they may be trying to move in that direction but first they need more people actively playing beyond the seed teams.

For reference I have to seriously update the roster in my link, I've got something like 18 4*s now, everybody rostered except 5* Gambit and Nightcrawler (later today). All 3s champed except Gambit and Electra but both of them are getting close to 13 covers. Regular PVE player, was starting to be regular PVP but I decided yesterday that I need to take a step back from that because my sister is making me nuts in another game we're newly playing together and I need to focus on that for a week or 2. I thought she'd dabble - she's gone insane. 

purplemur

Once you have 3*'s champed, getting 4* covers starts moving: you can hit PvP progression, Then it gets quicker so you can push for cp in PvP, farms and champ levels boost the rate,
Once you have your first few champed 4's you start building momentum: the next ten go fast, start knocking at placement, can get to 900 maybe push to 1200. Covers come much faster than ISO rates can keep up and hoarding to leap into 5*land becomes not only viable but sensible. And if some of those champed 4's are blade/carol/medusa/peggy/moonknight/riri then your really putting down the gas pedal.
Vaulting helped the acceleration of "2nd Tier" towards the current "Top Tier"(joined year one). Yes the Top Tier has all the same and more levels as the tier below them, but those second and middle tier players were able to get to a comparable plateau faster than the generation before them was. Yes yours are bigger(Greatest Generation) but the NKOTB at least have them. A human can play smart and beat an AI mirror match even with Ai being spotted 60 levels. I agree with OP, I  think vaulting helped push past the RNG barrier and allowed a whole new class into the hallowed halls of top tier play. I think maybe too fast even, so they had to roll it back because they don't know what they are doing with 5* game play.
From what I've read on the forum 5* Pvp used to have complaints about in most slices it was the same dozen players fighting each other, thus the collaborations and competition that inspired the Line rooms and baking and coordinated hops. Now this win based thread has people claiming that top 25 is all within the 1200+ spread, so did we approx. double the amount of big game? The # of 5* chars has jumped, so I would think that it would be harder to get coverage with that amount of dilution. The frequency of getting that purple foil cover has remained stagnant(except for some notable "bugs"), so the rate with which players were ripping packs must have gone up and/or there was a "Baby Boom" in players(joined in the 2nd/3rd yr) that naturally attained this zenith state. There is not enough cp awarded for the rosters that need them. Creating the sharpest delineation amongst the haves and have nots:T10
Win-based is to help middle tier player(GenX - joined last year and a half)s be able to glimpse the mountain top. It helps the lower tier get the new shiny that they can't get due to killrwhales poaching lower scl PvE placement prizes. A solid 3* roster can grind out 40 wins. It gives crumbs of the fun that this mode of game play can be, so players will get hooked and invest time and money without giving them any actual cake because there's no CP at the end of this grind, you need 5*s for that. They want that level out of reach of this next generation because, again: it doesn't seem like they understand where they are going with it: quantity and quality of prizes don't fit, design is hit or miss, and of course the question of: and then what? 6* to grind dark avengers? They want us in 4* play. That's where 75% of the new content is and where the power scaling vs goons is best matched.
This change was aimed at a large part of the player base. I think the average player segment of the bell curve. Overall I agree that it will be beneficial and helpful to MOST players, but it will hurt 5-10% of the players from earning cp. Nobody is saying "Yea good job! you made us do 5 clears and now 40 wins! makes the game SO much better" nobody likes taking CP out of progression. Remember that those of us who like this change don't like that it sucks for you.
TL;DR :Anecdotal math to agree with OP. Silver linings, potential, and mutants! Don't quit over this change.

Tiggida

I have been playing this game since the beginning and the real slog has always been the transition from one tier to the next. If you jump too fast, mmr kicks you in the teeth. If you go too slow, you get left behind. These changes will probably shrink the gaps between the 3-4* transitioners but they will widen the gap by a lot more for the 4-5* transitioners. That extra 15 CP every few days makes a bigger difference than most people that aren't there yet realize. 4-5* transitioners will be mostly locked out of that now and those of us who can get top 10 will pull even further ahead. If nothing changes, very few people will ever be able to catch up. The devs have pumped the brakes a few times on top players to slow them down, but this change over the long term won't do that. It may shrink the pool of people in the upper tier, but that tier will be uncatchable if you aren't there or really close to there already. 

I see why people like it. I was once banging my head into that brick wall too. This is great for that group and I think this or something similar should remain for them. A change needs to happen for the people at the 4-5* transition point though. They will be the ones hurt by this the most and I can see a lot of people just giving up at that point under the current system. That's kind of the new brick wall to bang your head on. Pve used to be a way to catch up, but that has been handed to the upper tier as well now. 

broll

Vhailorx said:

broll said:

xKOBALTx said:

broll said:

Vhailorx said:

The top tier players used all the vintage 4* covers they got from finishing top 10 regularly, PLUS they got all the super powerful current 12 4*s up to 350+.  

I completely disagree with your post.  I was pretty early in my 4* transition when vaulting came out and I feel it skyrocketed me to the point where I’m already knocking on the 5* door. I didn’t have to sell anything, no clue where that notion comes from. It gave me months of time where I got 0 4* cover / CP cover waste. Yes my vintage rates slowed but through other means (BH, 3* champ rewards, H4H, event rewards, etc) they continued to move forward at a much more predictable rate that was easily manageable. 

The theory is interesting. I personally don’t give the devs that much credit that vaulting was always temporary. 

In your complete disagreement, I think you're overlooking the most important piece to the counterargument. So, you made good progress on champing the latest 4*'s? Awesome. Vhail admitted as much. But tell me, if you compare your top half dozen 4*'s to a roster similar to mine which matches well to his argument (350+), did you really "close the gap" as the OP's premise states? Really?

The OPs idea of tiers was based on rarity and not levels.  It allowed me to champ or 13 cover my way through the 4* tier faster to move into 5* tier sooner which closes the gap based on my understanding of the OPs definitions. 

So we will just follow that definition blindly, without regard to the actual game?  Do you really think there is no difference between a 275 carol and a 355 carol? 

Maybe you haven't seen them yet in PVP, but high level 4* champs when boosted are terrifying.  Better than 5*s in all respects except match damage. 

It's great that lots of 4* transitioners got their carol or Medusa up to 275.  Those characters have about 33k when boosted, and carol does maybe 25k with her black.  The top tier players got their carol and medusa up to 370, when boosted to 450+ Carol has  something closer to 60k health and does 50k with her black (those of you that have her that high please correct my numbers since I am sure that I am off a bit).  Do you really think you made progress by adding some 270 champs?

Yes I do. I was never going to consider moving into 5* land until most of my 4*s were champed.  By getting through 4* land quicker it got me to 5* quicker. 

madoctor

The rockett said:

@D4Ni13 can you please tell us a little about yourself and your roster. How many days in?  How many champed 5*/4*?  What's your highest 5/4*?  Do you play pve and pvp competitively?  What is your Shiled Rank?  What does your ally rank for pve and pve typically?  

The reason I am asking is because I see you post a lot about some of these items and I am curious on your play style.  

You won't get an answer rockett.

Tells me everything I need to know.

D4Ni13

Doc L

Thing is, if you have champ 4* and hit my 5* Thanos/Hawkeye combo I’m using currently, you may win, given the AI is shocking at defence, but you’ll probably need health packs. If I retaliate, I won’t need any health packs. To me, that says the tiers are miles apart.

First of all, I won't see you if I'm a 4* player and you have a Thanos & Hawkeye champed. So we are not even competing, so it is normal to have a wider gap between us. 

Guys, this is not about the gap between player X and player Y. If player Y is ahead, player X will never catch up, unless player Y stops or slows down progression. But that is not the point. The point is about the gaps between tiers, not between separate individual players. And it is a key difference. Maybe I didn't evolve my theory enough in the OP, but that was only to understand my initial point, and to not have to read a book of a post. 

Of course, every tier can be separated in subtier and so on. Of course you cannot compare 5* beginners with 5* top tier. But that's not the point. The point is that people that previously were one or even 2 tiers below, now are advancing further. As a 5* player you may say, "yeah, well they're never gonna be my level". Well, yes, they are never going to catch up with you, and that is normal in this environment, but they will be able to advance to 5* world, and they would be able sometime in the future to compete with you. Will they threaten your position in certain events or matches, maybe or maybe not (most often not), but the fact is that instead of lets say 1000 5* players, now there will be 5000 5* players, which is a big deal for all of that tier's players. More people means more options, more brackets, more rewards, more variety, and so on. 

In order to help the 5* world, you need more people to have access to that tier. And by increasing the accesibility, you actually "close the gap" between those tiers. And Vaulting did helped with this advancement. Like @broll said, there where a lot of people (myself included) that advanced quicker than we otherwise would have advanced. That meant that had quicker advancement and got closer to the 5* tier. While you also benefited from the same move, the thing is that you have nowhere else to go but stay in the 5* world, whereas I have to advance to get there. And for a 4* player to even consider going in the 5* world, he needs to have a strong fundation underneath: champed 4*. If he doesn't have most of his 4* champed, he will never consider going in 5* world, and knowing what you guys face every day there. 

The rockett

can you please tell us a little about yourself and your roster. How many days in?  How many champed 5*/4*?  What's your highest 5/4*?  Do you play pve and pvp competitively?  What is your Shiled Rank?  What does your ally rank for pve and pve typically?  

Sure, but I want to ask something first. Does my current level invalidate my opinion in some regard ? I mean does it matter what level I am ? If I am lower than you or most of you debating here, does that mean I don't know what I'm talking about ? Just curious, because my opinion & theory is based on everything I saw here, not only my own experience. 

I am a 4* player, with 20+ champed 4* (don't know exactly the number, but lets say between 20 and 30), I have almost all 5* (except Daredevil & Gambit - but that could change soon as I plan to open some LTs), all of them undercovered and soft-capped at 300. My best 5* is Black Panther at 3/2/4. My best 4* is Carol Danvers (289), also one of my favorite hero in game and one I focused really hard, and my weakest champ is Grocket (271). I also have a lot of potential new champs on the vine (Iceman will be the next one). 

I am mostly a casual player, but I am not shy of competing when I want certain rewards. My last competing in PvE was Rogue's release, when I ended #29 in CL9, and could got even higher, but I was gone in the first sub, so I had to grind 12 hours earlier than the finish, so I lost some points there. I always enter CL9 (for more CP), regardless if I'm competing or not, and I might only fall back to CL7 if I'm not planing to compete and I don't have the required 5* (did it for not having Daredevil) - but again this might chance pretty soon. 

In PvP I rarely compete, don't remember the last time I did that, but it was before clearance levels. I managed to win a bracket in PvP in the past, but it is just not something I crave too much right now. I mostly play for the CP (CL8) and if I'm interested in the 4* cover I would make an effort to get it. 

And finally, I am in a casual alliance, and I believe our rank right now is somewhere at level 150, but there were times in the past when we managed to break top100. As a player I joined since the beginning, but I had 2 big breaks when I didn't play the game. I started on Steam, and now I'm on Android. So my player level is not that relevant. I could have been to day 1100+ if I played regular, but because of my breaks I'm at day ~900. 

Zappa

This all falls apart at the very base - you think the devs have the foresight or planning to implement these elaborate schemes to narrow the gaps in player strength. They do not. So while it might be nice to fantasize they have a beautiful overarching plan, take a gander at the bugs forum or the history of game updates and it should paint a pretty clear picture of greed and increasing playtime rather than fun.

I'm just curios, what do you do for a living. I'm asking because you don't seem to know too much about software development. Do you really believe that anybody can manage to create a game, sustain it for 4 years, and not only that, but evolving it, making it more popular & profitable, without any planning ahead ? This is not Flappy Bird. There is no one-man experiment that got increadible well. No, this was the kind of app that was planned even from the beginning. It was launched to start on Steam, Android & iOS. Only for that you need a lot of planning. 

I've seen a lot of guys here that really discredit the developer team and their capabilities, for various reasons. But you may not understand that a developer has no power in decisions that are made in regard with a game, an app, or any product whatsoever. If the manager comes and says: "John, I want you do to this", and John replies: "Yeah, but we have a lot of bugs, people will be unhappy", the manager would just say: "Let me deal with people, you deal with the code". The dev will do what he's asked, and the manager would do what he likes. He will not come to the public and say: "You know what, we know we have bugs, but we don't plan to address them right now because we have other priorities". And what you might not understand is that painfully more often the manager is a non-technical guy that doesn't know half of the product. That's why you see so many mistakes in articles. The guy barely knows what's going on from the techincal point of view. He is a publisher, manager or just a sales person. And the dev team could really tell their supperiors that they need to solve the bugs, if they are not listen to, it doesn't matter what they know and think. 

But coming out and say that devs do not plan ahead, is plain stupid. You cannot create a successful app without planning ahead. Now I'm not saying Vaulting was a plan 2 or 3 years ago. But once the problem arrises that Vaulting wanted to fix (regardless if it was what I think or something completely different), multiple solutions were likely created and analysed. Vaulting was the one chosen and implemented, but surely there was a lot of thinking behind the move, as it is now with this new system. 

Conclusions: 

This is my theory. You can believe it, or not. It's your choice and I respect that. 

What I see from my position is that a lot of you lost your patience, and I'm not in a place to judge that. And I know that a lot of you complain because you actually like the game and because you invested a lot of resources in it. But I think that things are not that bad how some of you make them appear. 

I am enjoying the game. I don't like every decision made. I don't find win-based to be perfect, not even great, but it does solve some problems. It is really hard to understand exactly what are they doing and why. We don't know the business model behind it, so all we can do is theorize. 

D4Ni13

madoctor said:

The rockett said:

@D4Ni13 can you please tell us a little about yourself and your roster. How many days in?  How many champed 5*/4*?  What's your highest 5/4*?  Do you play pve and pvp competitively?  What is your Shiled Rank?  What does your ally rank for pve and pve typically?  

The reason I am asking is because I see you post a lot about some of these items and I am curious on your play style.  

You won't get an answer rockett.

Tells me everything I need to know.

Some of us have a life and won't stay here 24/7

Alsmir

Vaulting introduced-  vets with fully champed classic 4* "The change is great, stop whining."
CL based level scaling in PvE - vets with champed 5* who now make clears in 50% time in CL7 "Great change, stop whining".
5* essentials in CL7 - vets "Great change"

PvP change that benefits 3*-4* players, but is bad for vets "Horrible!/Will quit!/Will not spend!/The game will die!" paired with "You like it? What's your roster? How much do you play? How often did you reach full prog in PvP? Never? Then your opinion is irrelevant, hush!"

MPQ sure has a special kind of community. Honestly, despite so many changes that we had, that benefited vets/5* players, I felt sorry for them when win-based got introduced. I was well aware that top players in PvP earned 1200 points with less effort than 40 wins. Now they have to grind way more.
My sympathy was gone about 5 minutes after reading the forums. There is very little real discussion. Plenty of screams and threats, but most importantly: levels of egoism that I've never seen before.

The rockett

D4Ni13 said:

Doc L

Thing is, if you have champ 4* and hit my 5* Thanos/Hawkeye combo I’m using currently, you may win, given the AI is shocking at defence, but you’ll probably need health packs. If I retaliate, I won’t need any health packs. To me, that says the tiers are miles apart.

First of all, I won't see you if I'm a 4* player and you have a Thanos & Hawkeye champed. So we are not even competing, so it is normal to have a wider gap between us. 

Guys, this is not about the gap between player X and player Y. If player Y is ahead, player X will never catch up, unless player Y stops or slows down progression. But that is not the point. The point is about the gaps between tiers, not between separate individual players. And it is a key difference. Maybe I didn't evolve my theory enough in the OP, but that was only to understand my initial point, and to not have to read a book of a post. 

Of course, every tier can be separated in subtier and so on. Of course you cannot compare 5* beginners with 5* top tier. But that's not the point. The point is that people that previously were one or even 2 tiers below, now are advancing further. As a 5* player you may say, "yeah, well they're never gonna be my level". Well, yes, they are never going to catch up with you, and that is normal in this environment, but they will be able to advance to 5* world, and they would be able sometime in the future to compete with you. Will they threaten your position in certain events or matches, maybe or maybe not (most often not), but the fact is that instead of lets say 1000 5* players, now there will be 5000 5* players, which is a big deal for all of that tier's players. More people means more options, more brackets, more rewards, more variety, and so on. 

In order to help the 5* world, you need more people to have access to that tier. And by increasing the accesibility, you actually "close the gap" between those tiers. And Vaulting did helped with this advancement. Like @broll said, there where a lot of people (myself included) that advanced quicker than we otherwise would have advanced. That meant that had quicker advancement and got closer to the 5* tier. While you also benefited from the same move, the thing is that you have nowhere else to go but stay in the 5* world, whereas I have to advance to get there. And for a 4* player to even consider going in the 5* world, he needs to have a strong fundation underneath: champed 4*. If he doesn't have most of his 4* champed, he will never consider going in 5* world, and knowing what you guys face every day there. 

The rockett

can you please tell us a little about yourself and your roster. How many days in?  How many champed 5*/4*?  What's your highest 5/4*?  Do you play pve and pvp competitively?  What is your Shiled Rank?  What does your ally rank for pve and pve typically?  

Sure, but I want to ask something first. Does my current level invalidate my opinion in some regard ? I mean does it matter what level I am ? If I am lower than you or most of you debating here, does that mean I don't know what I'm talking about ? Just curious, because my opinion & theory is based on everything I saw here, not only my own experience. 

I am a 4* player, with 20+ champed 4* (don't know exactly the number, but lets say between 20 and 30), I have almost all 5* (except Daredevil & Gambit - but that could change soon as I plan to open some LTs), all of them undercovered and soft-capped at 300. My best 5* is Black Panther at 3/2/4. My best 4* is Carol Danvers (289), also one of my favorite hero in game and one I focused really hard, and my weakest champ is Grocket (271). I also have a lot of potential new champs on the vine (Iceman will be the next one). 

I am mostly a casual player, but I am not shy of competing when I want certain rewards. My last competing in PvE was Rogue's release, when I ended #29 in CL9, and could got even higher, but I was gone in the first sub, so I had to grind 12 hours earlier than the finish, so I lost some points there. I always enter CL9 (for more CP), regardless if I'm competing or not, and I might only fall back to CL7 if I'm not planing to compete and I don't have the required 5* (did it for not having Daredevil) - but again this might chance pretty soon. 

In PvP I rarely compete, don't remember the last time I did that, but it was before clearance levels. I managed to win a bracket in PvP in the past, but it is just not something I crave too much right now. I mostly play for the CP (CL8) and if I'm interested in the 4* cover I would make an effort to get it. 

And finally, I am in a casual alliance, and I believe our rank right now is somewhere at level 150, but there were times in the past when we managed to break top100. As a player I joined since the beginning, but I had 2 big breaks when I didn't play the game. I started on Steam, and now I'm on Android. So my player level is not that relevant. I could have been to day 1100+ if I played regular, but because of my breaks I'm at day ~900. 

Zappa

This all falls apart at the very base - you think the devs have the foresight or planning to implement these elaborate schemes to narrow the gaps in player strength. They do not. So while it might be nice to fantasize they have a beautiful overarching plan, take a gander at the bugs forum or the history of game updates and it should paint a pretty clear picture of greed and increasing playtime rather than fun.

I'm just curios, what do you do for a living. I'm asking because you don't seem to know too much about software development. Do you really believe that anybody can manage to create a game, sustain it for 4 years, and not only that, but evolving it, making it more popular & profitable, without any planning ahead ? This is not Flappy Bird. There is no one-man experiment that got increadible well. No, this was the kind of app that was planned even from the beginning. It was launched to start on Steam, Android & iOS. Only for that you need a lot of planning. 

I've seen a lot of guys here that really discredit the developer team and their capabilities, for various reasons. But you may not understand that a developer has no power in decisions that are made in regard with a game, an app, or any product whatsoever. If the manager comes and says: "John, I want you do to this", and John replies: "Yeah, but we have a lot of bugs, people will be unhappy", the manager would just say: "Let me deal with people, you deal with the code". The dev will do what he's asked, and the manager would do what he likes. He will not come to the public and say: "You know what, we know we have bugs, but we don't plan to address them right now because we have other priorities". And what you might not understand is that painfully more often the manager is a non-technical guy that doesn't know half of the product. That's why you see so many mistakes in articles. The guy barely knows what's going on from the techincal point of view. He is a publisher, manager or just a sales person. And the dev team could really tell their supperiors that they need to solve the bugs, if they are not listen to, it doesn't matter what they know and think. 

But coming out and say that devs do not plan ahead, is plain stupid. You cannot create a successful app without planning ahead. Now I'm not saying Vaulting was a plan 2 or 3 years ago. But once the problem arrises that Vaulting wanted to fix (regardless if it was what I think or something completely different), multiple solutions were likely created and analysed. Vaulting was the one chosen and implemented, but surely there was a lot of thinking behind the move, as it is now with this new system. 

Conclusions: 

This is my theory. You can believe it, or not. It's your choice and I respect that. 

What I see from my position is that a lot of you lost your patience, and I'm not in a place to judge that. And I know that a lot of you complain because you actually like the game and because you invested a lot of resources in it. But I think that things are not that bad how some of you make them appear. 

I am enjoying the game. I don't like every decision made. I don't find win-based to be perfect, not even great, but it does solve some problems. It is really hard to understand exactly what are they doing and why. We don't know the business model behind it, so all we can do is theorize. 

Thank You for answering and Yes it does.  I see a lot of people commenting on what needs to be done to the PVP system to find out they have 2 champed 4* an play causally.  My point is if you play causally why should your causal play dictated the change in PVP when it effects the hard core top 10/25 ally's.  That is the point I have been trying to make time and time again.  The people complaining and wanting the change are hurting the high end 4*/5* players more than you know.  I will post some TRUE data here very soon to show my point.  I am fine trying to expand the game to get more to play PVP, but this is not the way.  in fact, they wanted to increase the usage of Shields and HP and this will have the direct opposite of it. 

Alsmir

The rockett said:

D4Ni13 said:

(...)

Thank You for answering and Yes it does.  I see a lot of people commenting on what needs to be done to the PVP system to find out they have 2 champed 4* an play causally.  My point is if you play causally why should your causal play dictated the change in PVP when it effects the hard core top 10/25 ally's.  That is the point I have been trying to make time and time again.  The people complaining and wanting the change are hurting the high end 4*/5* players more than you know.  I will post some TRUE data here very soon to show my point.  I am fine trying to expand the game to get more to play PVP, but this is not the way.  in fact, they wanted to increase the usage of Shields and HP and this will have the direct opposite of it. 

True data? Numbers pulled from the forum and Line? Perhaps do you have a data about all player base?

madoctor

D4Ni13 said:

madoctor said:

The rockett said:

@D4Ni13 can you please tell us a little about yourself and your roster. How many days in?  How many champed 5*/4*?  What's your highest 5/4*?  Do you play pve and pvp competitively?  What is your Shiled Rank?  What does your ally rank for pve and pve typically?  

The reason I am asking is because I see you post a lot about some of these items and I am curious on your play style.  

You won't get an answer rockett.

Tells me everything I need to know.

Some of us have a life and won't stay here 24/7

Exactly. One might think otherwise by the overzealous nature of responses on the forum.

Have fun. It's only a game

The rockett

Alsmir said:

The rockett said:

D4Ni13 said:

(...)

Thank You for answering and Yes it does.  I see a lot of people commenting on what needs to be done to the PVP system to find out they have 2 champed 4* an play causally.  My point is if you play causally why should your causal play dictated the change in PVP when it effects the hard core top 10/25 ally's.  That is the point I have been trying to make time and time again.  The people complaining and wanting the change are hurting the high end 4*/5* players more than you know.  I will post some TRUE data here very soon to show my point.  I am fine trying to expand the game to get more to play PVP, but this is not the way.  in fact, they wanted to increase the usage of Shields and HP and this will have the direct opposite of it. 

True data? Numbers pulled from the forum and Line? Perhaps do you have a data about all player base?

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/68392/category-5-pvp-information-from-s4#latest

Doc L

Okay, just because I think you overestimate the step forward this will be... 

There are 58 4* in the game currently (could be 48, may have miscounted, completely possible). Every week, you can earn 3 4* covers in PvP. 174 PvPs are currently required to go around each 4*’s 3 covers once. That is currently set at more than a year. At the same time, we’re at a rate of almost 2 4* a month, as well as a 5* every month or so. That means by the third rotation of PvP covers, it will be 1-2 months later, ignoring other variables.

This extra 4* cover for champ levels is a bit of a drop in the ocean, man, it’s a drop in space. I assume the counter argument is, ‘it’s better that we get  His, than not at all’. All I’m saying is, it won’t help the jump to 5* in the slightest - it’s a fallacy to think that, and is actually, I imagine, what they hope you will think.

I actually made the jump, paying VIP only, to 5* for several reasons, as you mention the gap a lot between the tiers:

- Vaulting. It’s the main reason I could get more CP and pulls.
- PvE CP increase. It’s a massive improvement on what it was 6 months ago.
- Time. I’m at day 145X. I just had more time than most others.
- Hoarding, not pulling Classic tokens ever, and luck. These three I put together, and if you don’t hoard, or you don’t pull only Latest Tokens, F2P or close to, you’ll not win.

Indeed, Vaulting disappearing was way worse for my CP/Legendary Tokens than anything else. 

And just to to let you know as you mentioned it, about 1/3 of my hits are from champ 4* rosters. I check after every hit, to see if they’ll retaliate and as such, what to use as my team. I don’t shield check/use Line rooms for that, I don’t care for that, never have done.

I actually don’t mind the wins as they are, in principle, but I still think they are papering over the real cracks here - really poor MMR and not enough rewards.

And sorry, I didn’t mean to write as much, nor sound like I am ranting (if I am). I think this change is a sidestep, not a forward step, in the evolution of the game, and to me, is neither here nor there for the long term game survival. We’re talking about a game that has made millions of dollars (they made a big deal about it financially a while ago, and the 10 million downloads of the game), and is viable already with or without changes to the game. Roster slots (prior to VIP accounts) were the biggest earner for the game ($10 a slot, many top players have 200+ slots...), though I’m sure that has changed now.

D4Ni13

madoctor said:

D4Ni13 said:

madoctor said:

The rockett said:

@D4Ni13 can you please tell us a little about yourself and your roster. How many days in?  How many champed 5*/4*?  What's your highest 5/4*?  Do you play pve and pvp competitively?  What is your Shiled Rank?  What does your ally rank for pve and pve typically?  

The reason I am asking is because I see you post a lot about some of these items and I am curious on your play style.  

You won't get an answer rockett.

Tells me everything I need to know.

Some of us have a life and won't stay here 24/7

Exactly. One might think otherwise by the overzealous nature of responses on the forum.

Have fun. It's only a game

I wished there was still a lol button, because this really deserved one. You were the one attacking me for not responing, and now when I did, you are bailing out like "It's only a game". 

I know it's only a game. For me it really is. I'm relaxed, positive, have energy... but I see a lot of grim faces everywhere... pardon my overzealously, but I never intended to do any harm around here. It seems though that my efforts are not worth. 

Have fun. 

madoctor

I never "attacked you". I called you out for not responding to that one request, while you did reply to plenty of other posts in other topics.

Look at it right now. You have already made 3 replies in this topic in less than an hour and a half.

Have fun and Peace V!

D4Ni13

The rockett said:

Thank You for answering and Yes it does.  I see a lot of people commenting on what needs to be done to the PVP system to find out they have 2 champed 4* an play causally.  My point is if you play causally why should your causal play dictated the change in PVP when it effects the hard core top 10/25 ally's.  That is the point I have been trying to make time and time again.  The people complaining and wanting the change are hurting the high end 4*/5* players more than you know.  I will post some TRUE data here very soon to show my point.  I am fine trying to expand the game to get more to play PVP, but this is not the way.  in fact, they wanted to increase the usage of Shields and HP and this will have the direct opposite of it. 

For what is worth, I was only trying to help. I don't know if negative threads have a good impact on the community in general, so I tried to be positive about the change. Frankly, I am not a fan of it, because now I have a pretty good roster and I could've gotten the rewards with less grind, but I also think there are enough players for which this change is very helpful. And personally, I don't try to dictate anything, just merely trying to explain my thoughts on the matter, and be as impartial as I could be. If I'm subjective, I partially agree with you, just think that you are a bit on the negative side. 

The truth is the change is good for the most majority of players, because unfortunately, top tier is in minority. Is it a good move or not, that's another matter, and I'll let you guys discuss on it. I'm done with interfering

The rockett

D4Ni13 said:

The rockett said:

Thank You for answering and Yes it does.  I see a lot of people commenting on what needs to be done to the PVP system to find out they have 2 champed 4* an play causally.  My point is if you play causally why should your causal play dictated the change in PVP when it effects the hard core top 10/25 ally's.  That is the point I have been trying to make time and time again.  The people complaining and wanting the change are hurting the high end 4*/5* players more than you know.  I will post some TRUE data here very soon to show my point.  I am fine trying to expand the game to get more to play PVP, but this is not the way.  in fact, they wanted to increase the usage of Shields and HP and this will have the direct opposite of it. 

For what is worth, I was only trying to help. I don't know if negative threads have a good impact on the community in general, so I tried to be positive about the change. Frankly, I am not a fan of it, because now I have a pretty good roster and I could've gotten the rewards with less grind, but I also think there are enough players for which this change is very helpful. And personally, I don't try to dictate anything, just merely trying to explain my thoughts on the matter, and be as impartial as I could be. If I'm subjective, I partially agree with you, just think that you are a bit on the negative side. 

The truth is the change is good for the most majority of players, because unfortunately, top tier is in minority. Is it a good move or not, that's another matter, and I'll let you guys discuss on it. I'm done with interfering

If you think this is a good move, please refer here. 

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/68392/category-5-pvp-information-from-s4#latest

Now this is only 1 slice out of 5.  S2/3/4 have the least amount of bracket flips.  It is too bad that we cannot see how many wins each of these people got so I can give even more data to prove that this is not a good thing removing the CPs from progression.

D4Ni13

madoctor said:

I never "attacked you". I called you out for not responding to that one request, while you did reply to plenty of other posts in other topics.

Look at it right now. You have already made 3 replies in this topic in less than an hour and a half.

Have fun and Peace V!

I didn't respond, because I was gone hiking, but I don't have to explain this here, and I didn't reply in other posts in this time. And that is the only reason I even replied to your comment, because you acuse me on something I never did. Please show me, where did I reply in the meantime since I was asked that question here and until the post I actually replied into. You cannot, because I didn't respond to anybody. 

As much as you want to point out that I was avoiding any response, I didn't and I won't have a reason to. I just didn't have time to respond. Kill me with fire... 

Update: yeah, thanks for the flag. Act like I'm the **** around here. 

Alsmir

The rockett said:

Alsmir said:

The rockett said:

D4Ni13 said:

(...)

Thank You for answering and Yes it does.  I see a lot of people commenting on what needs to be done to the PVP system to find out they have 2 champed 4* an play causally.  My point is if you play causally why should your causal play dictated the change in PVP when it effects the hard core top 10/25 ally's.  That is the point I have been trying to make time and time again.  The people complaining and wanting the change are hurting the high end 4*/5* players more than you know.  I will post some TRUE data here very soon to show my point.  I am fine trying to expand the game to get more to play PVP, but this is not the way.  in fact, they wanted to increase the usage of Shields and HP and this will have the direct opposite of it. 

True data? Numbers pulled from the forum and Line? Perhaps do you have a data about all player base?

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/68392/category-5-pvp-information-from-s4#latest

It's a start, but right now you have some info about just S4 and you ignore everyone who didn't make 1200. That's quite bad.