Sacrifice the present for a better future

124

Comments

  • madoctor
    madoctor Posts: 292 Mover and Shaker
    Ruinate said:
    Title of the thread is a "...a better future".  Most of the folk here, and certainly most of the folk happy with this change are the 4* players.  Their future is 5* level play where CP has been placed out of reach for many.  So when vets say something like - "you won't like this change in the future because CP has been removed from prog", the rebuttal is something along the lines of "well I have no interest in t10 or 5* level play so it doesn't affect me."

    Can somebody walk me through OP's terrible logic?

    4* player here. I am for sure not happy with the change.

    IMO the people happy with the change are the 3* star players who do not have 4* covers and cannot reach 900. Or the players who do not care about their own progress, but don't want other players to progress.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
    meekersX said:
    I disagree with the arguments put forward in the original post. The PvP changes only slow progression in the 5* tier. We should judge the changes based on the game as it is currently, not what we hope for the future.
    It's not slowing mine down any....

    What I'm seeing is:
    • Easier to get the 10 CP (not that it was hard)
    • Much easier to get the 4* (helping me finish out more of the 4* tier and be less afraid of opening CP packs due to 4* waste)
    • Looks like I'm finally gonna be able to complete season progression and get the 15 CP there.
    • I'm not wasting any HP on shields vs 300-450 per event before so I have more to use on stores/vaults/H4H to help round out 4* and chase LTs in vaults.
    The trade off:
    • The 15 CP per event seems more out of reach than ever (which it was pretty out of reach to me before so this is less of a loss and more of a doubling down on the status quo).
    • Lower placement will mean some loss of ISO, HP, and covers (the HP loss is negated by not shielding the ISO loss isn't much, and the covers I might miss out on some 3* covers which outside of their champ rewards aren't all that big of a loss)
    So how is this slowing down my 5* transition?  It looks like there are about 4 ways I can finish off my 4*s sooner which will make CP packs less of minefield and get CP & LTs from champ rewards.  I'm actually going to gain 15 more CP per season (Not counting in extra from 4* champ levels).  Sure I won't get the 15 CP per event but I've gotten that a grand total of once in 1.5 years and it was looking like unitil I champ some 5*s or get my 4*s 40ish levels higher that was gonna be out of reach anyway, so that seems like more of loss after the 5* transition has started in earnest.
  • bOmbast
    bOmbast Posts: 45 Just Dropped In
    While the change might make it easier to gain 4* covers for more players, I'm not even sure it speeds up progress that much:

    I champed my first 4* a year ago, and ever since that day I've never once stopped to think "hey, I got all this ISO lying around, but no covered 4*s to spend them on!" As soon as you enter 4 star land, you'll never have enough ISO to keep up with the cover flow. Sure, it's good when it's the one cover you really need, but you won't be able to champ your 4s any quicker.  

  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    bOmbast said:
    While the change might make it easier to gain 4* covers for more players, I'm not even sure it speeds up progress that much:

    I champed my first 4* a year ago, and ever since that day I've never once stopped to think "hey, I got all this ISO lying around, but no covered 4*s to spend them on!" As soon as you enter 4 star land, you'll never have enough ISO to keep up with the cover flow. Sure, it's good when it's the one cover you really need, but you won't be able to champ your 4s any quicker.  

    Exactly this, iso has always been the factor limiting my roster. Not covers, and I wasn't able to hit 900 consistently until about 5 or 6 seasons ago.
  • D4Ni13
    D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2017
    bOmbast said:
    While the change might make it easier to gain 4* covers for more players, I'm not even sure it speeds up progress that much:

    I champed my first 4* a year ago, and ever since that day I've never once stopped to think "hey, I got all this ISO lying around, but no covered 4*s to spend them on!" As soon as you enter 4 star land, you'll never have enough ISO to keep up with the cover flow. Sure, it's good when it's the one cover you really need, but you won't be able to champ your 4s any quicker.  

    While I agree with you, there is this misconception that one needs to cover all the 4* in the game, which is false. I personally won't cover all the 4*, as much as I don't have all the 3*, and never will and there are 2 big reasons for this: I don't have enough space for all of them, and I don't like all of them. 

    One may argue that you need them for requirement nodes, but please. The only rarity I have all the covers are the 2 stars, because cycling them is a good source of constant rewards. The next on the list are 5*, but this is possible because of them being still very few (and they are the most important in game so far). But once their number will grow, there is no way I will continue to cover all of them. Why should I ocupy a space for Banner if I never use him unless I'm forced to (just an example) ? 

    So while it's true that you are always short on ISO in 4* land, you can prioritize your targets, and you certainly can omit some of them, according to play style and preferences. 
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    D4Ni13 said:
    bOmbast said:
    While the change might make it easier to gain 4* covers for more players, I'm not even sure it speeds up progress that much:

    I champed my first 4* a year ago, and ever since that day I've never once stopped to think "hey, I got all this ISO lying around, but no covered 4*s to spend them on!" As soon as you enter 4 star land, you'll never have enough ISO to keep up with the cover flow. Sure, it's good when it's the one cover you really need, but you won't be able to champ your 4s any quicker.  

    While I agree with you, there is this misconception that one needs to cover all the 4* in the game, which is false. I personally won't cover all the 4*, as much as I don't have all the 3*, and never will and there are 2 big reasons for this: I don't have enough space for all of them, and I don't like all of them. 

    One may argue that you need them for requirement nodes, but please. The only rarity I have all the covers are the 2 stars, because cycling them is a good source of constant rewards. The next on the list are 5*, but this is possible because of them being still very few. But once their number will grow, there is no way I will continue to cover all of them. Why should I ocupy a space for Banner if I never use him unless I'm forced to (just an example) ? 

    So while it's true that you are always short on ISO in 4* land, you can prioritize your targets, and you certainly can omit some of them, according to play style and preferences. 
    That is true, but what if your play style is to have them all? I like having every character and want to have every character. Back when I had a 2* roster I kept throwing away Quicksilver covers because I didn't like him, then he was required in an event I didn't have the 4* for yet.... I missed progression on that one. I decided long ago that I wanted to roster them all, and I'm not unique in that. There are a large number of people that have all the characters, even if not to be constantly competitive. Some people are just completionists. Since my roster has expanded I even roster duplicate 3* characters for 3* farming. I have a lot more roster spots than characters in the game and I still have less than most in my alliance. So while it may be true for you to omit some characters based on your personal preference, that is not true for everyone else based on their own personal preference.
  • D4Ni13
    D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2017
    Milk Jugz said:
    D4Ni13 said:
    bOmbast said:
    While the change might make it easier to gain 4* covers for more players, I'm not even sure it speeds up progress that much:

    I champed my first 4* a year ago, and ever since that day I've never once stopped to think "hey, I got all this ISO lying around, but no covered 4*s to spend them on!" As soon as you enter 4 star land, you'll never have enough ISO to keep up with the cover flow. Sure, it's good when it's the one cover you really need, but you won't be able to champ your 4s any quicker.  

    While I agree with you, there is this misconception that one needs to cover all the 4* in the game, which is false. I personally won't cover all the 4*, as much as I don't have all the 3*, and never will and there are 2 big reasons for this: I don't have enough space for all of them, and I don't like all of them. 

    One may argue that you need them for requirement nodes, but please. The only rarity I have all the covers are the 2 stars, because cycling them is a good source of constant rewards. The next on the list are 5*, but this is possible because of them being still very few. But once their number will grow, there is no way I will continue to cover all of them. Why should I ocupy a space for Banner if I never use him unless I'm forced to (just an example) ? 

    So while it's true that you are always short on ISO in 4* land, you can prioritize your targets, and you certainly can omit some of them, according to play style and preferences. 
    That is true, but what if your play style is to have them all? I like having every character and want to have every character. Back when I had a 2* roster I kept throwing away Quicksilver covers because I didn't like him, then he was required in an event I didn't have the 4* for yet.... I missed progression on that one. I decided long ago that I wanted to roster them all, and I'm not unique in that. There are a large number of people that have all the characters, even if not to be constantly competitive. Some people are just completionists. Since my roster has expanded I even roster duplicate 3* characters for 3* farming. I have a lot more roster spots than characters in the game and I still have less than most in my alliance. So while it may be true for you to omit some characters based on your personal preference, that is not true for everyone else based on their own personal preference.
    What I meant is having all covers in the game is a choice, not a requirement. Everybody chooses what is best for them. 
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
    bOmbast said:
    While the change might make it easier to gain 4* covers for more players, I'm not even sure it speeds up progress that much:

    I champed my first 4* a year ago, and ever since that day I've never once stopped to think "hey, I got all this ISO lying around, but no covered 4*s to spend them on!" As soon as you enter 4 star land, you'll never have enough ISO to keep up with the cover flow. Sure, it's good when it's the one cover you really need, but you won't be able to champ your 4s any quicker.  

    You and I had very different experiences then...

    I also champed my first 4*s about a year ago (5 at once after pulling a hoard).  At first I did have ISO sitting around due to lack of covers.  But within a few months I got into a pace where I was hitting 13 or 14 and then champing them at a regular pace.  I only recently (last month or two) got so over saturated in the 4* tier that I have many more 13 covers than I have the ISO to champ.

    Vaulting played a big part in this, but in general until the last few months covers have been the things slowing my progression more than ISO.  That being said I now have almost 70% champed.  so 7 out of 10 4* covers are get are giving me ISO, HP, CP, or LTs and those are helping me finish off the remaining 4*s and start my 5* transition.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    D4Ni13 said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    D4Ni13 said:
    bOmbast said:
    While the change might make it easier to gain 4* covers for more players, I'm not even sure it speeds up progress that much:

    I champed my first 4* a year ago, and ever since that day I've never once stopped to think "hey, I got all this ISO lying around, but no covered 4*s to spend them on!" As soon as you enter 4 star land, you'll never have enough ISO to keep up with the cover flow. Sure, it's good when it's the one cover you really need, but you won't be able to champ your 4s any quicker.  

    While I agree with you, there is this misconception that one needs to cover all the 4* in the game, which is false. I personally won't cover all the 4*, as much as I don't have all the 3*, and never will and there are 2 big reasons for this: I don't have enough space for all of them, and I don't like all of them. 

    One may argue that you need them for requirement nodes, but please. The only rarity I have all the covers are the 2 stars, because cycling them is a good source of constant rewards. The next on the list are 5*, but this is possible because of them being still very few. But once their number will grow, there is no way I will continue to cover all of them. Why should I ocupy a space for Banner if I never use him unless I'm forced to (just an example) ? 

    So while it's true that you are always short on ISO in 4* land, you can prioritize your targets, and you certainly can omit some of them, according to play style and preferences. 
    That is true, but what if your play style is to have them all? I like having every character and want to have every character. Back when I had a 2* roster I kept throwing away Quicksilver covers because I didn't like him, then he was required in an event I didn't have the 4* for yet.... I missed progression on that one. I decided long ago that I wanted to roster them all, and I'm not unique in that. There are a large number of people that have all the characters, even if not to be constantly competitive. Some people are just completionists. Since my roster has expanded I even roster duplicate 3* characters for 3* farming. I have a lot more roster spots than characters in the game and I still have less than most in my alliance. So while it may be true for you to omit some characters based on your personal preference, that is not true for everyone else based on their own personal preference.
    What I meant is having all covers in the game is a choice, not a requirement. Everybody chooses what is best for them. 
    It's a choice in the way that doing 40 wins is a choice.  If you want to play as optimal as possible you should champ everyone.  Otherwise you're just throwing potential rewards in the garbage.
  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
    broll said:
    meekersX said:
    I disagree with the arguments put forward in the original post. The PvP changes only slow progression in the 5* tier. We should judge the changes based on the game as it is currently, not what we hope for the future.
    It's not slowing mine down any....

    What I'm seeing is:
    • Much easier to get the 4* (helping me finish out more of the 4* tier and be less afraid of opening CP packs due to 4* waste) - SUBJECTIVE. People who didn't need to get 40 wins before for the 4-star don't consider twice the wins necessary against the same MMR "easier". 
    • Looks like I'm finally gonna be able to complete season progression and get the 15 CP there. - 800 points per PVP event and then completing the simulator for 2K would get you 10K before. 900 wasn't hard, but fine I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that. 800 is DEFINITELY not hard for your roster. 
    • I'm not wasting any HP on shields vs 300-450 per event before so I have more to use on stores/vaults/H4H to help round out 4* and chase LTs in vaults. - Again, subjective from the outlook of someone who doesn't care about ranking anymore. People that do still care about ranking are still spending this HP. 
    The trade off:
    • The 15 CP per event seems more out of reach than ever (which it was pretty out of reach to me before so this is less of a loss and more of a doubling down on the status quo). - Once again subjective. "It's not relevant to where I'm at in the game right now, so who cares". If you actually are in the 5-star tier as your post implies, then it's eventually going to be relevant to you. Probably sooner than you seem to think. 
    • Lower placement will mean some loss of ISO, HP, and covers (the HP loss is negated by not shielding the ISO loss isn't much, and the covers I might miss out on some 3* covers which outside of their champ rewards aren't all that big of a loss) - Just because those 3-star covers don't mean as much to you, doesn't mean that someone who's still pushing through 3-4* transition can't use it for the champ rewards and any 3s they are not finished with. 
    So how is this slowing down my 5* transition?  It looks like there are about 4 ways I can finish off my 4*s sooner which will make CP packs less of minefield and get CP & LTs from champ rewards.  I'm actually going to gain 15 more CP per season (Not counting in extra from 4* champ levels).  Sure I won't get the 15 CP per event but I've gotten that a grand total of once in 1.5 years and it was looking like unitil I champ some 5*s or get my 4*s 40ish levels higher that was gonna be out of reach anyway, so that seems like more of loss after the 5* transition has started in earnest.
    Is it really THAT hard to quit looking at this change from the perspective of what it does for YOU personally as the grounds for whether this is good or bad for the overall health of the game? It truly blows my mind that people were so staunchly against increasing the number of clears required in PVE due to the increased time commitment for no increase in rewards, yet the EXACT same thing is happening to PVP - increased time commitment for the exact same rewards, and people are head over heels. What is this world coming to? 
  • meekersX
    meekersX Posts: 334 Mover and Shaker
    broll said:
    meekersX said:
    I disagree with the arguments put forward in the original post. The PvP changes only slow progression in the 5* tier. We should judge the changes based on the game as it is currently, not what we hope for the future.
    It's not slowing mine down any....

    What I'm seeing is:
    • Easier to get the 10 CP (not that it was hard)
    • Much easier to get the 4* (helping me finish out more of the 4* tier and be less afraid of opening CP packs due to 4* waste)
    • Looks like I'm finally gonna be able to complete season progression and get the 15 CP there.
    • I'm not wasting any HP on shields vs 300-450 per event before so I have more to use on stores/vaults/H4H to help round out 4* and chase LTs in vaults.
    The trade off:
    • The 15 CP per event seems more out of reach than ever (which it was pretty out of reach to me before so this is less of a loss and more of a doubling down on the status quo).
    • Lower placement will mean some loss of ISO, HP, and covers (the HP loss is negated by not shielding the ISO loss isn't much, and the covers I might miss out on some 3* covers which outside of their champ rewards aren't all that big of a loss)
    So how is this slowing down my 5* transition?  It looks like there are about 4 ways I can finish off my 4*s sooner which will make CP packs less of minefield and get CP & LTs from champ rewards.  I'm actually going to gain 15 more CP per season (Not counting in extra from 4* champ levels).  Sure I won't get the 15 CP per event but I've gotten that a grand total of once in 1.5 years and it was looking like unitil I champ some 5*s or get my 4*s 40ish levels higher that was gonna be out of reach anyway, so that seems like more of loss after the 5* transition has started in earnest.
    It seems to me that you are talking mainly of progression in the 4* tier. I agree, for those that struggled to achieve the lower progression targets before, the new system makes them more obtainable, albeit at the cost of significantly increased time investment.

    I am mainly concerned about progression in the 5* tier. This is where I currently am, and where the majority of my experience in game exists. 4* covers are completely irrelevant once you have a 5* roster. My climb in PvP is primarily against championed 5*, and if I use a championed 4*, I am fodder in my MMR. I don't worry that much about obtaining 4* covers, because they don't significantly change my playing experience. What changes my experience is obtaining 5* covers, and CP is the only way to obtain them. In the course of spending CP to obtain 5*, you earn plenty of 4* covers besides.

    Thus, the only thing that matters is how much CP I can obtain. These changes greatly reduce the amount of CP that I can earn, and additionally greatly increase the amount of time that I must spend to earn what is available.

    Note well, this is an issue that will affect all players eventually. Transitioning to 5* now requires significantly more time and dedication. Or, you could just spend money.

    Thank you for your well articulated reply. I greatly appreciate it.

  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    broll said:
    meekersX said:
    I disagree with the arguments put forward in the original post. The PvP changes only slow progression in the 5* tier. We should judge the changes based on the game as it is currently, not what we hope for the future.
    It's not slowing mine down any....

    What I'm seeing is:
    • Much easier to get the 4* (helping me finish out more of the 4* tier and be less afraid of opening CP packs due to 4* waste) - SUBJECTIVE. People who didn't need to get 40 wins before for the 4-star don't consider twice the wins necessary against the same MMR "easier". 
    • Looks like I'm finally gonna be able to complete season progression and get the 15 CP there. - 800 points per PVP event and then completing the simulator for 2K would get you 10K before. 900 wasn't hard, but fine I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that. 800 is DEFINITELY not hard for your roster. 
    • I'm not wasting any HP on shields vs 300-450 per event before so I have more to use on stores/vaults/H4H to help round out 4* and chase LTs in vaults. - Again, subjective from the outlook of someone who doesn't care about ranking anymore. People that do still care about ranking are still spending this HP. 
    The trade off:
    • The 15 CP per event seems more out of reach than ever (which it was pretty out of reach to me before so this is less of a loss and more of a doubling down on the status quo). - Once again subjective. "It's not relevant to where I'm at in the game right now, so who cares". If you actually are in the 5-star tier as your post implies, then it's eventually going to be relevant to you. Probably sooner than you seem to think. 
    • Lower placement will mean some loss of ISO, HP, and covers (the HP loss is negated by not shielding the ISO loss isn't much, and the covers I might miss out on some 3* covers which outside of their champ rewards aren't all that big of a loss) - Just because those 3-star covers don't mean as much to you, doesn't mean that someone who's still pushing through 3-4* transition can't use it for the champ rewards and any 3s they are not finished with. 
    So how is this slowing down my 5* transition?  It looks like there are about 4 ways I can finish off my 4*s sooner which will make CP packs less of minefield and get CP & LTs from champ rewards.  I'm actually going to gain 15 more CP per season (Not counting in extra from 4* champ levels).  Sure I won't get the 15 CP per event but I've gotten that a grand total of once in 1.5 years and it was looking like unitil I champ some 5*s or get my 4*s 40ish levels higher that was gonna be out of reach anyway, so that seems like more of loss after the 5* transition has started in earnest.
    Is it really THAT hard to quit looking at this change from the perspective of what it does for YOU personally as the grounds for whether this is good or bad for the overall health of the game? It truly blows my mind that people were so staunchly against increasing the number of clears required in PVE due to the increased time commitment for no increase in rewards, yet the EXACT same thing is happening to PVP - increased time commitment for the exact same rewards, and people are head over heels. What is this world coming to? 
    Umm, no it's not but I thought I was clear my intention was based on me and not everyone:
    broll said:
    It's not slowing mine down any....

    What I'm seeing is:
    • Easier to get the 10 CP (not that it was hard)
    • Much easier to get the 4* (helping me finish out more of the 4* tier and be less afraid of opening CP packs due to 4* waste)
    • Looks like I'm finally gonna be able to complete season progression and get the 15 CP there.
    • I'm not wasting any HP on shields vs 300-450 per event before so I have more to use on stores/vaults/H4H to help round out 4* and chase LTs in vaults.
    The trade off:
    • The 15 CP per event seems more out of reach than ever (which it was pretty out of reach to me before so this is less of a loss and more of a doubling down on the status quo).
    • Lower placement will mean some loss of ISO, HP, and covers (the HP loss is negated by not shielding the ISO loss isn't much, and the covers I might miss out on some 3* covers which outside of their champ rewards aren't all that big of a loss)
    So how is this slowing down my 5* transition?  It looks like there are about 4 ways I can finish off my 4*s sooner which will make CP packs less of minefield and get CP & LTs from champ rewards.  I'm actually going to gain 15 more CP per season (Not counting in extra from 4* champ levels).  Sure I won't get the 15 CP per event but I've gotten that a grand total of once in 1.5 years and it was looking like unitil I champ some 5*s or get my 4*s 40ish levels higher that was gonna be out of reach anyway, so that seems like more of loss after the 5* transition has started in earnest.
    meekersX 's comment however did seem to be leveled at all players and my point was to point out that his was subjective, just as mine was....
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Broll:

    This slows down your progress because your roster and performance enevelope are not static.  So it's true that thus change might make getting that 4* prog cover slightly easier in the short term (though quite frankly if you werr spending 300-400 HP on shields per event and still struggling to hit 900 with a roster that has 30+ 4* champs ypu must have been playing very sub-optimally).  But under the old system your roster would have gotten stronger, and at some point you would have been able to achieve 1200 on a regular basis, and your roster progress would have accelerated even more.  Under the new system you have already hit your max,  there is little room for anyone new in the top 10 slots.  So now you will just have to grind 2x as much for less rewards like the rest of us.  

    For a simple analogy: assume you were driving 75 km/hr in the old system, and you could eventually expect to reach 200km/hour.  The new system might speed you up to 100km/hour right now. But it also lowers your maximum speed to 125km/hour.  So you might feel like you are moving faster over the first few km.  But over the long run you have lost ground.  And mpq is a very long run game.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
    @Vhailorx
    I'm not disagreeing that the loss of CP is good or doesn't hurt anyone.  I've been pretty vocal elsewhere since the first test saying that I like win based but they need to fix problems affecting the 5* tier players.  My point was that i disagree on it slowing the 5* transition down, it hurts you once you make the transition and are living there.  People can disagree with that impression, but as someone on the cusp of the 5* transition I feel sped up, not slowed down.  Now I am slightly more hesitant about desiring to move into there because it seems like it's like driving 75km/hr and then driving your car into quicksand.

    It's also possible we're not all using the same definition of transition... which could be mudding the waters.  I consider the transition to be the getting the previous tier to a level where you feel it's time to cross the threshold and it ends when you have 3-5 characters in that tier and are now using (and fighting against) mostly character in that tier.

  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll said:
    @Vhailorx
    I'm not disagreeing that the loss of CP is good or doesn't hurt anyone.  I've been pretty vocal elsewhere since the first test saying that I like win based but they need to fix problems affecting the 5* tier players.  My point was that i disagree on it slowing the 5* transition down, it hurts you once you make the transition and are living there.  People can disagree with that impression, but as someone on the cusp of the 5* transition I feel sped up, not slowed down.  Now I am slightly more hesitant about desiring to move into there because it seems like it's like driving 75km/hr and then driving your car into quicksand.


    That is exactly what @Vhailorx post is saying, sure you may have sped up slightly now, but once you champ a few 5* that isn't going to be the case. And that's going to be the case for everyone that hits the 5* tier
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    How does less cp NOT slow the 5* transition down?  Transitioning into, or living in 5* land, cp/LTs are all that matter.

    Once you have a critical mass of 4*s (30-40 now, enough that you can always field a strong team of boosted champs), the marginal value of more 4* covers is a lot lower.  Sure they are nice.  And adding strong new 4*s is also nice, as is getting the best 4*s up to 350+.  But all of that stuff takes a back seat to getting LT pulls by any means possible because the only way to reliably enter 5* land now is to save up 200-300 LT pulls.  And the only way to keep pace with the 5* release rate is to earn about 90 LT pulls per month.  45 cp a week is about 8 pulls per month.  So right off the top this change deprived a lot players of about 9% of that income.
  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
    Someone said 

    "I like the changes. Its speeding my growth. Im not going to roster all 4s or 3s. "

    Your argument is no longer valid. 

    How can you talk about game changes and growth when deliberately cutting your roster off at the knees? 

    You arent going to progress with only half the toons. The 3 and 4* tier is the essential groups for progress. You will never be truly competitive without them. If you dont want to be competitive thats great but dont preach the praises of d3 when you clearly have little to no understanding of the game and dont plan to grow past where you are now. 

    You arent doing anyone any favors.  
  • BearVenger
    BearVenger Posts: 453 Mover and Shaker
    edited October 2017
    Doing some quick math on a Post-It-Note, I'm now up to needing 73-75 wins/day to make full progression in MPQ this season.

    PvP: (40 wins x 3 events per week / 7 days): 17.1 wins
    PvE: ([9 daily nodes x 5] + [5* node x2] + 1 intro): 48.0 wins
    DDQ: 6 + (1/5): 6.2 wins
    SIM: 74 wins / 25 days: 2.96 wins
    SHIELD Training: 18 wins / 17 days: ~1 win
    System Reboot: 16 wins / 17 days: ~1 win

    17.1 + 48 + 6.2 + 2.96 + 1 + 1 = ~73-75 wins per day. (This does not take Lightning Rounds into consideration, nor does it take closing PvE grinds above progression minimum.)

    I think that's a bit much, especially considering it takes about 2-5 minutes per win, depending on the event. Also, this does not factor in any wipes.

    This amount of play kills the joy in MPQ. Whereas in previous seasons, I would play past progression minimums to get middle placement, I'm gonna nope out of anything more than 40/74 wins this time around.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    How does less cp NOT slow the 5* transition down?  Transitioning into, or living in 5* land, cp/LTs are all that matter.

    Once you have a critical mass of 4*s (30-40 now, enough that you can always field a strong team of boosted champs), the marginal value of more 4* covers is a lot lower.  Sure they are nice.  And adding strong new 4*s is also nice, as is getting the best 4*s up to 350+.  But all of that stuff takes a back seat to getting LT pulls by any means possible because the only way to reliably enter 5* land now is to save up 200-300 LT pulls.  And the only way to keep pace with the 5* release rate is to earn about 90 LT pulls per month.  45 cp a week is about 8 pulls per month.  So right off the top this change deprived a lot players of about 9% of that income.
    Fair enough.  From my perspective at that level 1200 is not easy or a given in the 30-40 4* roster level, but my perspective isn't necessarily right and I don't focus PvP so it's certainly perceivable that someone who put their heart into PvP could do it.  That's just not my experience.  I also haven't accepted how easy it is for that level because most of the most vocal people saying how easy it is at that level are people I know to be 5* players so I take it with a grain of salt.
  • Tiggida
    Tiggida Posts: 64 Match Maker
    edited October 2017
    broll said:
    Fair enough.  From my perspective at that level 1200 is not easy or a given in the 30-40 4* roster level, but my perspective isn't necessarily right and I don't focus PvP so it's certainly perceivable that someone who put their heart into PvP could do it.  That's just not my experience.  I also haven't accepted how easy it is for that level because most of the most vocal people saying how easy it is at that level are people I know to be 5* players so I take it with a grain of salt.
    1200 with 30-40 4*s was actually very easy to get under the old system. The only time It was hard is those times trying to do it with no buffed 4*s. You would most likely need to find the grills/ccs to do it in 3-4 hops (maybe 1 more or less depending on how high you could get on your initial climb), but it was a lot easier than I think you realize. It also didn't require joining the Line community although you'd spend more time and ISO skipping without it. A lot of people found that 800-900 stretch as a concrete wall and gave up. Once you showed people what happened once they overcame that (with an extra 1 or 2 match hop or 2), they would regularly be getting 1200 consistently in no time. From some of your comments it sounds like you may have been leaving a lot of progression rewards on the table that you most likely could have had fairly easily.

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