Daredevil217 said: I have 33 4* champs and only one over 285. I feel that with my widely built roster I can compete better than if I had a handful of elite level characters in the mid 300s. Why? Because I usually have 2-3 characters boosted and can rely on those different characters each week to hit 900 PVP/top5 PVE and continue to grow my roster. I would say with my roster despite no 300 level toons, I have officially “transitioned”.Vaulting was all about helping people transition to the 4* tier. With this current system you can still do that just fine. My 3s are pretty much unusable so I’d say I transitioned. What you are talking about is what I believe was the unintended side effect of vaulting which was almost skipping the 4* transition and propelling people into 5* MMR/Scaling. By having 3-6 nearly max-Champed 4s you can see and probably beat low level Champed 5*.TLDR: You can absolutely use this new system to transition to 4* land but cannot leap into 5* land like you could under vaulting. We can argue which is better for the health of the game all day. I know for me if I’d of splurged on tokens during vaulting (as many did) and kept having to use the same 4 characters and kept having to slog through 5* teams I’d be much less happy.
Ruinate said: Daredevil217 said: I have 33 4* champs and only one over 285. I feel that with my widely built roster I can compete better than if I had a handful of elite level characters in the mid 300s. Why? Because I usually have 2-3 characters boosted and can rely on those different characters each week to hit 900 PVP/top5 PVE and continue to grow my roster. I would say with my roster despite no 300 level toons, I have officially “transitioned”.Vaulting was all about helping people transition to the 4* tier. With this current system you can still do that just fine. My 3s are pretty much unusable so I’d say I transitioned. What you are talking about is what I believe was the unintended side effect of vaulting which was almost skipping the 4* transition and propelling people into 5* MMR/Scaling. By having 3-6 nearly max-Champed 4s you can see and probably beat low level Champed 5*.TLDR: You can absolutely use this new system to transition to 4* land but cannot leap into 5* land like you could under vaulting. We can argue which is better for the health of the game all day. I know for me if I’d of splurged on tokens during vaulting (as many did) and kept having to use the same 4 characters and kept having to slog through 5* teams I’d be much less happy. You say a lot of good things but the problem is your same arguments can be used for pro vaulting when using personal anecdotes. I purposely didn't include mine because this is an argument that will never end and there's no clear winner. But perhaps I should have so you can better understand that we are in the exact same situation and the only difference is that I play at tier above you.We all know the 5* progression is slow. It's not only slow, but there also aren't that many 5* characters. I am using the same 5* characters to slog through the same 5* characters. Vaulting made 4* characters very strong. A max champ 4 doesn't just "probably beat" 5* teams. They obliterate them. Max champing even with vaulting and bonus heroes were difficult to do, but getting a 4* to be close in power with 5's was extremely simple. This gave us 5* players more variety. The same variety you want. Really the entire vaulting argument is moot when vaulting is over and we now have this "good compromise". What I don't like is when people state something as fact when it isn't. You can't say for sure that what we have now is better for the game when 5*'s are the end game just because it's better for you, a player who hasn't reached the end game. A smooth transition into a tinykitty end game isn't exactly good.
Daredevil217 said: I agree that there are pros and cons to all three, but I prefer to build my roster wide rather than tall. I understand that is a personal preference and not everyone wants that. There are many gamers who just want the current meta/most powerful and nothing else. They want the fast-track to the end-game. I respect that, even if it is not my cup of tea. Especially since all characters are needed at one time or another. I did the same thing in 3* land. I didn't just pump up IM40 and Strange. To this day, I make my bonus 3s my lowest leveled characters and build evenly.
Daredevil217 said:My preference went: 3x Odds > Dilution > Vaulting.I agree that there are pros and cons to all three, but I prefer to build my roster wide rather than tall. I understand that is a personal preference and not everyone wants that. There are many gamers who just want the current meta/most powerful and nothing else. They want the fast-track to the end-game. I respect that, even if it is not my cup of tea
Spudgutter said: Daredevil217 said:My preference went: 3x Odds > Dilution > Vaulting.I agree that there are pros and cons to all three, but I prefer to build my roster wide rather than tall. I understand that is a personal preference and not everyone wants that. There are many gamers who just want the current meta/most powerful and nothing else. They want the fast-track to the end-game. I respect that, even if it is not my cup of tea I just re-read your initial post. Not sure why it didn't click at first, but now it has. You have a ton of cp and lt's. So right from the get go, you probably didnt even open anything during the vaulting period! Then, you mentioned that you hit 900 in pvp, and top 5 in pve for cl8. No wonder your 4 stars are still progressing. Your whole argument and position are invalid, in my opinion. I regret getting into an internet discussion with someone whose opinion is not only tainted by their preconceived notions, but also lack of actual experience of the thing you are railing against. Welcome to the internet, everyone.
tiomono said: Spudgutter said: Daredevil217 said:My preference went: 3x Odds > Dilution > Vaulting.I agree that there are pros and cons to all three, but I prefer to build my roster wide rather than tall. I understand that is a personal preference and not everyone wants that. There are many gamers who just want the current meta/most powerful and nothing else. They want the fast-track to the end-game. I respect that, even if it is not my cup of tea I just re-read your initial post. Not sure why it didn't click at first, but now it has. You have a ton of cp and lt's. So right from the get go, you probably didnt even open anything during the vaulting period! Then, you mentioned that you hit 900 in pvp, and top 5 in pve for cl8. No wonder your 4 stars are still progressing. Your whole argument and position are invalid, in my opinion. I regret getting into an internet discussion with someone whose opinion is not only tainted by their preconceived notions, but also lack of actual experience of the thing you are railing against. Welcome to the internet, everyone. So someone cannot have an opinion on a token that gives primarily 4 star characters while they are working on improving their 4 star roster?Welcome to the internet everyone. Where only your personal opinion has any relevance to anything and everyone else is wrong tainted and inexperienced.
Spudgutter said: tiomono said: Spudgutter said: Daredevil217 said:My preference went: 3x Odds > Dilution > Vaulting.I agree that there are pros and cons to all three, but I prefer to build my roster wide rather than tall. I understand that is a personal preference and not everyone wants that. There are many gamers who just want the current meta/most powerful and nothing else. They want the fast-track to the end-game. I respect that, even if it is not my cup of tea I just re-read your initial post. Not sure why it didn't click at first, but now it has. You have a ton of cp and lt's. So right from the get go, you probably didnt even open anything during the vaulting period! Then, you mentioned that you hit 900 in pvp, and top 5 in pve for cl8. No wonder your 4 stars are still progressing. Your whole argument and position are invalid, in my opinion. I regret getting into an internet discussion with someone whose opinion is not only tainted by their preconceived notions, but also lack of actual experience of the thing you are railing against. Welcome to the internet, everyone. So someone cannot have an opinion on a token that gives primarily 4 star characters while they are working on improving their 4 star roster?Welcome to the internet everyone. Where only your personal opinion has any relevance to anything and everyone else is wrong tainted and inexperienced. no, i blame myself for not catching it at the beginning. it's like getting into a discussion with an anti-vaxer. no matter what i say, they already have their mind made up. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, i just prefer educated ones, based on experience. just wasting my breath at this point. Have fun, i hope you get everyone champed at some point.
White_Deth said: My immediate though on this is keep a vault with all the latest 4* characters as per the vaulting. Then another vault that has not all but 12 of the old characters in it. This particular vault is cycled every 4 weeks, maybe even 2 and thus giving us a choice on wanting to get an oldie or a latest. For players only a year to 6 months in this would help with lvling the newer characters because its damn near impossible to get the olds. For those with covered oldies give the other store a chance. There 2 vaults, same resource to draw from. And remember that cp is earned and can't be bought so only the best and most dedicated players can draw alot. No boosted rates on anything and both 20cp each to draw. I would like this and as far as i can see doesnt break anything in the game. Anyones thoughts?
tiomono said: Spudgutter said: tiomono said: Spudgutter said: Daredevil217 said:My preference went: 3x Odds > Dilution > Vaulting.I agree that there are pros and cons to all three, but I prefer to build my roster wide rather than tall. I understand that is a personal preference and not everyone wants that. There are many gamers who just want the current meta/most powerful and nothing else. They want the fast-track to the end-game. I respect that, even if it is not my cup of tea I just re-read your initial post. Not sure why it didn't click at first, but now it has. You have a ton of cp and lt's. So right from the get go, you probably didnt even open anything during the vaulting period! Then, you mentioned that you hit 900 in pvp, and top 5 in pve for cl8. No wonder your 4 stars are still progressing. Your whole argument and position are invalid, in my opinion. I regret getting into an internet discussion with someone whose opinion is not only tainted by their preconceived notions, but also lack of actual experience of the thing you are railing against. Welcome to the internet, everyone. So someone cannot have an opinion on a token that gives primarily 4 star characters while they are working on improving their 4 star roster?Welcome to the internet everyone. Where only your personal opinion has any relevance to anything and everyone else is wrong tainted and inexperienced. no, i blame myself for not catching it at the beginning. it's like getting into a discussion with an anti-vaxer. no matter what i say, they already have their mind made up. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, i just prefer educated ones, based on experience. just wasting my breath at this point. Have fun, i hope you get everyone champed at some point. So now a player looking to advance their 4 star roster is entitled to their opinion on a token that primarily gives 4 star characters, but unless they agree with your opinion they have already made up their mind, are uneducated, inexperienced and equal to a conspiracy theorist?Is that the tldr?Many people did not like that the majority of the 4 star tier had their progress stalled. Are many of the new characters stronger than older ones? Yes. Should a player be allowed to collect and play with characters they enjoy? Yes. Can a player reasonably collect and play with any character they want in the 4 star tier when 75% of the characters (and growing) were drastically stalled behind vaulting?Again, the new system may not be ideal for every player, but I stand behind my thought that it is the best system the devs have offered so far.
Spudgutter said: tiomono said: Spudgutter said: tiomono said: Spudgutter said: Daredevil217 said:My preference went: 3x Odds > Dilution > Vaulting.I agree that there are pros and cons to all three, but I prefer to build my roster wide rather than tall. I understand that is a personal preference and not everyone wants that. There are many gamers who just want the current meta/most powerful and nothing else. They want the fast-track to the end-game. I respect that, even if it is not my cup of tea I just re-read your initial post. Not sure why it didn't click at first, but now it has. You have a ton of cp and lt's. So right from the get go, you probably didnt even open anything during the vaulting period! Then, you mentioned that you hit 900 in pvp, and top 5 in pve for cl8. No wonder your 4 stars are still progressing. Your whole argument and position are invalid, in my opinion. I regret getting into an internet discussion with someone whose opinion is not only tainted by their preconceived notions, but also lack of actual experience of the thing you are railing against. Welcome to the internet, everyone. So someone cannot have an opinion on a token that gives primarily 4 star characters while they are working on improving their 4 star roster?Welcome to the internet everyone. Where only your personal opinion has any relevance to anything and everyone else is wrong tainted and inexperienced. no, i blame myself for not catching it at the beginning. it's like getting into a discussion with an anti-vaxer. no matter what i say, they already have their mind made up. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, i just prefer educated ones, based on experience. just wasting my breath at this point. Have fun, i hope you get everyone champed at some point. So now a player looking to advance their 4 star roster is entitled to their opinion on a token that primarily gives 4 star characters, but unless they agree with your opinion they have already made up their mind, are uneducated, inexperienced and equal to a conspiracy theorist?Is that the tldr?Many people did not like that the majority of the 4 star tier had their progress stalled. Are many of the new characters stronger than older ones? Yes. Should a player be allowed to collect and play with characters they enjoy? Yes. Can a player reasonably collect and play with any character they want in the 4 star tier when 75% of the characters (and growing) were drastically stalled behind vaulting?Again, the new system may not be ideal for every player, but I stand behind my thought that it is the best system the devs have offered so far. Of course not, but someone that literally starts the thread with "ding dong vaultings dead" has a pretty much made clear their thoughts on the matter. I'm not geralizing people, i am referencing one person. Best system they have offered so far? Maybe, maybe not. Best system they *could* offer? Not even close
White_Deth said: I draw olds way more than the 3x latest. Sucks for me as when vaulting came around i ditched my 4* that had only 1 cover or so