TetsujinOni said: The unvaulting is garbage.23 characters that I don't want or need for roster progress, to feed iso to in order to get back to the steady state of all token draws being usable?The vaulting plus BH was a better system, entirely, for both players transitioning 3-4 tier and 4-5 tier, and had better results for vets.The current system is fundamentally worse for players over time, even assuming a vast Iso surplus.Revaulting would benefit the playerbase far more than the current system or the pre-vaulting flat system.
So you're for removing the the older half of 4* characters from the game.
Because if you're no longer offering giving out any covers, there's no point in keeping them around.
Starfury said: TetsujinOni said: The unvaulting is garbage.23 characters that I don't want or need for roster progress, to feed iso to in order to get back to the steady state of all token draws being usable?The vaulting plus BH was a better system, entirely, for both players transitioning 3-4 tier and 4-5 tier, and had better results for vets.The current system is fundamentally worse for players over time, even assuming a vast Iso surplus.Revaulting would benefit the playerbase far more than the current system or the pre-vaulting flat system. So you're for removing the the older half of 4* characters from the game.Because if you're no longer offering giving out any covers, there's no point in keeping them around.
Spudgutter said: tiomono said:But he is hitting 575 2 times a week with undercovered 4 stars right now. And just drew a cover for one of the 12 with higher draw rates. So it's still giving good progress while not locking away the vast majority of the characters in the 4 star tier. To me that sounds better than how vaulting was. Is the current system the perfect solution for every player? Nope, but I feel it's more beneficial to a wider range of players than the vaulting system was. To be fair, he pulled the c&d from the anniversary vault, but the point still stands. In order to pull the other two covers from a classic token, he has a 1 in 54 chance, twice. Thats 108 pulls. If it were during vaulting, 1 in 12, twice. 24. That is a huge difference! I get that they are "3x" more likely, but the dilution is still there. The perfect solution for every player, in my opinion, is several tokens, each with a set number of certain covers, so that you could more easily target who you want. But i doubt we will ever see that.
tiomono said:But he is hitting 575 2 times a week with undercovered 4 stars right now. And just drew a cover for one of the 12 with higher draw rates. So it's still giving good progress while not locking away the vast majority of the characters in the 4 star tier. To me that sounds better than how vaulting was. Is the current system the perfect solution for every player? Nope, but I feel it's more beneficial to a wider range of players than the vaulting system was.
That's just plain wrong:
During Vaulting: 85% for a 4* -> 100% chance for the latest (or only) 12 -> 1/12 chance of it being the one you want
Now: 85% for a 4* -> 50% chance for the latest 12 -> 1/12 chance of it being the one you want.
The probability for the latest 12 has been halved from 7.08% to 3.54%. Nothing more, nothing less. Also, there's no dilution for the latest 12. You have a 3.54% chance now, you'll have a 3.54% chance next year when there's 20 more 4*.
bluewolf said: Starfury said: TetsujinOni said: The unvaulting is garbage.23 characters that I don't want or need for roster progress, to feed iso to in order to get back to the steady state of all token draws being usable?The vaulting plus BH was a better system, entirely, for both players transitioning 3-4 tier and 4-5 tier, and had better results for vets.The current system is fundamentally worse for players over time, even assuming a vast Iso surplus.Revaulting would benefit the playerbase far more than the current system or the pre-vaulting flat system. So you're for removing the the older half of 4* characters from the game.Because if you're no longer offering giving out any covers, there's no point in keeping them around. There are many older characters that are borderline useless in the current meta. Yes, for pete's sake. Retire some. But they can't. Then we would have....extra roster slots. (Dev sad face here.). And they can never officially acknowledge that there are bad characters. (I am sympathetic that someone spent hours of their lives developing said characters, but there are roster slot suckers that just can't be saved in the new meta.)
bluewolf said: There are many older characters that are borderline useless in the current meta. Yes, for pete's sake. Retire some. But they can't. Then we would have....extra roster slots. (Dev sad face here.). And they can never officially acknowledge that there are bad characters. (I am sympathetic that someone spent hours of their lives developing said characters, but there are roster slot suckers that just can't be saved in the new meta.)
aesthetocyst said: Starfury said:So you're for removing the the older half of 4* characters from the game.Because if you're no longer offering giving out any covers, there's no point in keeping them around. Don't be ridiculous. He didn't say that at all. Covers come from many sources, not just tokens.
Starfury said:So you're for removing the the older half of 4* characters from the game.Because if you're no longer offering giving out any covers, there's no point in keeping them around.
I was just following his argument to the logical conclusion. If you don't want your LT pulls wasted on old characters, why would you want your vault pulls and champ rewards be wasted on them?
Under vaulting, progress on characters outside the latest 12 slowed down to such an extent that every vaulted cover you got was a lost unvaulted cover.
tiomono said: Spudgutter said:The perfect solution for every player, in my opinion, is several tokens, each with a set number of certain covers, so that you could more easily target who you want. But i doubt we will ever see that. That's still not a perfect solution. Imagine how many complaint threads there would be if someone wanted a specific character and in its token pool were several characters they don't want.If you ever collect any kind of trading card it's the same basic premise. Collectors can either buy packs with random chances at what they want, or they can shell out extra money to get specifically what they want. I realize this is not an exact apples to apples example but the general concept is there.
Spudgutter said:The perfect solution for every player, in my opinion, is several tokens, each with a set number of certain covers, so that you could more easily target who you want. But i doubt we will ever see that.
Starfury said: Spudgutter said: tiomono said:But he is hitting 575 2 times a week with undercovered 4 stars right now. And just drew a cover for one of the 12 with higher draw rates. So it's still giving good progress while not locking away the vast majority of the characters in the 4 star tier. To me that sounds better than how vaulting was. Is the current system the perfect solution for every player? Nope, but I feel it's more beneficial to a wider range of players than the vaulting system was. To be fair, he pulled the c&d from the anniversary vault, but the point still stands. In order to pull the other two covers from a classic token, he has a 1 in 54 chance, twice. Thats 108 pulls. If it were during vaulting, 1 in 12, twice. 24. That is a huge difference! I get that they are "3x" more likely, but the dilution is still there. The perfect solution for every player, in my opinion, is several tokens, each with a set number of certain covers, so that you could more easily target who you want. But i doubt we will ever see that. That's just plain wrong:During Vaulting: 85% for a 4* -> 100% chance for the latest (or only) 12 -> 1/12 chance of it being the one you wantNow: 85% for a 4* -> 50% chance for the latest 12 -> 1/12 chance of it being the one you want.The probability for the latest 12 has been halved from 7.08% to 3.54%. Nothing more, nothing less. Also, there's no dilution for the latest 12. You have a 3.54% chance now, you'll have a 3.54% chance next year when there's 20 more 4*.
bluewolf said: First, no character is never used by the devs. The boosted list includes everyone, and unless they retire someone, having everyone rostered benefits you in PVE (although you can possibly skip some 4's if you can get all 5's and only want progression.)I have almost all 4's champed (just Yondu, Rogue,Lockjaw, and Howard are left). Here are some that aren't much use: War Machine. Nick Fury. Elektra. Winter Soldier. Sam Wilson. Kingpin. Miles. Anyone that is not very speed oriented is not very helpful now. The game has shifted so much into fast matches and high damage almost immediately. Heavily CD dependent characters or ones that still require lots of AP collection are so far behind the meta. It's OK to mix CD/AP collection with a faster element.Obviously, some of these characters have a niche and are favorites of someone, but we know they are going to release another character in a week. Then another in two weeks. Then another. Dilution. Just. Keeps. Getting. Worse.
Spudgutter said: bluewolf said: First, no character is never used by the devs. The boosted list includes everyone, and unless they retire someone, having everyone rostered benefits you in PVE (although you can possibly skip some 4's if you can get all 5's and only want progression.)I have almost all 4's champed (just Yondu, Rogue,Lockjaw, and Howard are left). Here are some that aren't much use: War Machine. Nick Fury. Elektra. Winter Soldier. Sam Wilson. Kingpin. Miles. Anyone that is not very speed oriented is not very helpful now. The game has shifted so much into fast matches and high damage almost immediately. Heavily CD dependent characters or ones that still require lots of AP collection are so far behind the meta. It's OK to mix CD/AP collection with a faster element.Obviously, some of these characters have a niche and are favorites of someone, but we know they are going to release another character in a week. Then another in two weeks. Then another. Dilution. Just. Keeps. Getting. Worse. I would almost love to see a week with no boosted list. Even better would be if they would release the stats on player usage put beside average days played. That way you would see, that even the vets that have been around forever and have everyone, use the newer characters more.
DAZ0273 said: Spudgutter said: bluewolf said: First, no character is never used by the devs. The boosted list includes everyone, and unless they retire someone, having everyone rostered benefits you in PVE (although you can possibly skip some 4's if you can get all 5's and only want progression.)I have almost all 4's champed (just Yondu, Rogue,Lockjaw, and Howard are left). Here are some that aren't much use: War Machine. Nick Fury. Elektra. Winter Soldier. Sam Wilson. Kingpin. Miles. Anyone that is not very speed oriented is not very helpful now. The game has shifted so much into fast matches and high damage almost immediately. Heavily CD dependent characters or ones that still require lots of AP collection are so far behind the meta. It's OK to mix CD/AP collection with a faster element.Obviously, some of these characters have a niche and are favorites of someone, but we know they are going to release another character in a week. Then another in two weeks. Then another. Dilution. Just. Keeps. Getting. Worse. I would almost love to see a week with no boosted list. Even better would be if they would release the stats on player usage put beside average days played. That way you would see, that even the vets that have been around forever and have everyone, use the newer characters more. I don't think I have ever come across War Machine in an enemy team. Surely somebody has him champed?!?!?
DAZ0273 said: I don't think I have ever come across War Machine in an enemy team. Surely somebody has him champed?!?!?