*** Gambit (Modern) ***

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  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm not so sure that his red is so measly. With 5 in red at level 166 I'm doing 1500 damage per cast. For 5 AP and given that he generates his own AP that's a bargain, especially since you can cast it either every other turn, or every turn on a red match. That's pretty good damage output for a three-star.

    Now, maybe that's not significant for those of us in 4-star land when we're staring down the barrel of a boosted rhulk with 36k health, but I'm convinced that Gambit is one of those characters with no bad build depending on the player's use/needs.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dormammu said:
    I'm not so sure that his red is so measly. With 5 in red at level 166 I'm doing 1500 damage per cast. For 5 AP and given that he generates his own AP that's a bargain, especially since you can cast it either every other turn, or every turn on a red match. That's pretty good damage output for a three-star.

    Now, maybe that's not significant for those of us in 4-star land when we're staring down the barrel of a boosted rhulk with 36k health, but I'm convinced that Gambit is one of those characters with no bad build depending on the player's use/needs.
    At 5 covers you would expect to do ~1286 damage, assuming two random charged tiles. The max you can do without Strike tiles is 1514 (two purple) and the least is 1106 (two blue charged). Ok the least you can do is 22, but that's not the point. On average your damage/AP is 183, and at best it's 216. This is Psi-Katana or Thunderclap range efficiency. In fact, its pretty comparable overall to Thunderclap. Which is... not a great power.

    At 3 covers you'd still be getting ~725 damage on average (assuming two random charged tiles), around 950 max. The damage and damage per AP are obviously low, BUT, you're still generating that same 6 AP from the two charged tiles, PLUS, you get an extra Purple and Red AP per turn from a 5 cover stacked deck. (I'm assuming you're running 5 covers in Ragin Cajun since it's clearly amazing).

    All this means that at 3 covers in Aces & Eights, you're likely going to be able to fire it more often. Not enough to make up all of the damage, but some (and it's pretty low either way), and in the meantime you'll also generate more AP in other colors, which means you can fire your other powers more as well. 

    Add strike tiles into the mix, and the base damage of A&E becomes even less meaningful.

    Oh. One last food for thought. Repulsor Punch team ups. That is all.
  • Rick_OShay
    Rick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    Jaedenkaal said:
    Dormammu said:

    Oh. One last food for thought. Repulsor Punch team ups. That is all.
    True, but, Ironheart TU. It's broken (if you didn't know).
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    You make a very strong argument, @Jaedenkaal, however I would argue that psi-katana and thunderclap would see a lot more use if they cost 5 ap and their owners generated free AP every turn.
  • Rick_OShay
    Rick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    Gambit red costs 7
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    aesthetocyst said:
    Jaedenkaal said:

    Oh. One last food for thought. Repulsor Punch team ups. That is all.
    The ones that eat TU ap and red AP? And have a dmg/AP ratio from early 2015?

    If you have absolutely nothing better to do with that red ... or snag some lvl 479 Repulsor Punch TUs, maybe.

    (TUs eating 2 colors of AP are a big pet peeve of mine LOL)
    Right, but the damage per AP -is- better than Aces & Eights itself, so if you have nothing else to do with a lot of Red, it's a thing. Especially if Hulkbuster is boosted that week.
  • White_Deth
    White_Deth Posts: 63 Match Maker
    I envy you guys who have gambit maxed. He is freaking awesome. He looked like hot garbage when i first saw his powers but now ive used him in this event he is badass and one of my fav 3* characters. That self sustained purple is beatly on goon nodes, i can see it being amazing against muscle, nameless ones and symbiotes. Pop coulson i  to reduce countdown and maybe blade or carol and you have a damage machine. I had 6 popping in the loaner node and its like a charged card machine gun. Not so useful against tile movers but for goons i could easily keep say 5-6 out at once. 
  • Rick_OShay
    Rick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2017
    Man he's fun so far. I wish there was a mechanic of his black that would automatically charge 2 tiles before your first cast of red, like say a passive that charges 2 if you have gained 8 black for example. But I will say, sometimes I look and have 22 purple ready to go unexpectedly.
    Anyway, really striving for more covers quickly. Sure to be a very playable 3*.

    @Brigby
    Looks like we didn't get this moved into the Character details area?
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    @Rick OShay Ah! That's because the Gambit (Classic) one seems to contain both 3 and 5-Star descriptions.

    I'll move this one to Character Details, so we can have a dedicated space for both.
  • Dotproduct
    Dotproduct Posts: 217 Tile Toppler
    Having to face Gambit and Rogue in the PvE simulator event just shows how beastly these new releases can be when done right. I played with Gambit in his loaner node and it's just a walkthrough in most cases with spammable purple and red. Don't care that they didn't do much damage you just had to do it often enough and pretty much it's an anti-Medusa/Carol suppressor.
  • MaskedMan
    MaskedMan Posts: 234 Tile Toppler
    The question is what is going to be a Gambit/Rogue suppressor?  This is not "doing it right" if every new character just outclasses everything before them.  That just makes all your work building up characters worthless because all you need are the last 3 released.

    Doing it right is designing characters so character that they play differently when teamed differently.  Brute force is only 1 strategy but what is actually going to happen is a lot of unhappy players who hit this event and find themselves hitting a Gambit wall.  Much like the old simulator with the Witch/Iceman node that was a nightmare for many lower players it isn't fun getting you butt kicked in this type of game.

    This isn't a puzzle game where people expect to lose a lot until they figure out the key.  This is a game where there should be many paths to victory not one where you have to get certain characters to certain levels to be able to compete.
  • Rick_OShay
    Rick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    Gambit 'Modern' is a 3* character. You have many avenues to powerful 4* characters. Most of which can beat Rogue quite often, regardless if she is paired with Gambit or not.
    It's the same for Carol, Peggy, Grock-amora, etc.  

    So the answer to your leading question is: lots of fun characters.
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 1,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    mexus said:
    MaskedMan said:
    The question is what is going to be a Gambit/Rogue suppressor?  This is not "doing it right" if every new character just outclasses everything before them.  That just makes all your work building up characters worthless because all you need are the last 3 released.

    Doing it right is designing characters so character that they play differently when teamed differently.  Brute force is only 1 strategy but what is actually going to happen is a lot of unhappy players who hit this event and find themselves hitting a Gambit wall.  Much like the old simulator with the Witch/Iceman node that was a nightmare for many lower players it isn't fun getting you butt kicked in this type of game.

    This isn't a puzzle game where people expect to lose a lot until they figure out the key.  This is a game where there should be many paths to victory not one where you have to get certain characters to certain levels to be able to compete.
    Every new character doesn't outclass everyone released before him/her. Vulture did but he's special kind of special.
    Sandman, Lockjaw, Yondu etc. are examples of new bad to mediocre ones. I never miss an opportunity to rant about how bad Lockjaw is. He's poop.
    You think Yondu is bad?
  • Rick_OShay
    Rick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2017
    Yondu = fun, but mediocre
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 1,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yeah I guess that's fair. I saw him more as a counterpart to Blade in that Blade is top tier because his Red is so insanely powerful even though his other abilities are underwhelming.

    Granted Yondus Blue isn't as good as Bloodlust.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,965 Chairperson of the Boards
    Did we ever get an answer as to whether or not a 0/0/5 Gambit generating Purple/Red AP every turn that others can use is intentional?

    @Brigby

  • D4Ni13
    D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    Daredevil217 said:
    Did we ever get an answer as to whether or not a 0/0/5 Gambit generating Purple/Red AP every turn that others can use is intentional?

    @Brigby

    Yes we did, but I cannot tell you exactly where. Either in the article, either in the 5* thread... 
    If you don't have covers for red & purple, then Gambit doesn't have any active ability and you can generate those colors for other use. And it is intended.
  • hopper1979
    hopper1979 Posts: 565 Critical Contributor
    I have been using him as 0/0/1 and you can put the colors towards the red and pink colors no issues.
  • zulux21
    zulux21 Posts: 249 Tile Toppler
    D4Ni13 said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    Did we ever get an answer as to whether or not a 0/0/5 Gambit generating Purple/Red AP every turn that others can use is intentional?

    @Brigby

    Yes we did, but I cannot tell you exactly where. Either in the article, either in the 5* thread... 
    If you don't have covers for red & purple, then Gambit doesn't have any active ability and you can generate those colors for other use. And it is intended.
    it's going to make me roster at least 3 3* gambits lol.

    0/5/5
    0/0/5 (already have)
    and one to champ.

    I haven't figured out a decent team where 5/0/5 would be ideal... no team that I regularly use that would like the red, but not have a use for the purple, and that his AP gen would be worth it over another character.

    0/5/5 is easily though. That one goes great with Carol + IF or Carol + Cloak as the purple allows IF to gen a ton of black, and then the red is a useful extra skill to do damage with strike tiles. or with cloak who passively gens black, the purple is usable for cheap to do a lot of extra damage.
  • D4Ni13
    D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    zulux21 said:
    D4Ni13 said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    Did we ever get an answer as to whether or not a 0/0/5 Gambit generating Purple/Red AP every turn that others can use is intentional?

    @Brigby

    Yes we did, but I cannot tell you exactly where. Either in the article, either in the 5* thread... 
    If you don't have covers for red & purple, then Gambit doesn't have any active ability and you can generate those colors for other use. And it is intended.
    it's going to make me roster at least 3 3* gambits lol.

    0/5/5
    0/0/5 (already have)
    and one to champ.

    But can you recruit another character if you don't have the current one at max level ? I mean you have 0/0/5 and you earn a red cover. Can you recruit it to a separate spot ?

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