Are people really ok with the required 5* node in SCL7 and SCL8?

Skygazing

I'll preface this by saying I'm entirely a 4* player. Even before the rates for 5*s were buffed my pull rate was abysmal. And after? Still under advertised rates. Sucks, but that's the nature of RNG-based progression. And though it's a very large part of what has gradually steered me away from MPQ, that's a conversation for another day.

The reason I bring this up is because part of what I always loved about the game was the ability to compete and earn rewards based on effort and time spent, rather than RNG and money. Adding a 5* required node to both SCL7 and SCL8 has completely erased this concept from PvE, and though I've seen some talk about it I think there needs to be more visible dissatisfaction.

Yes there were 5* champ rosters to compete with either way, but at least you still stood a chance. Yes the 4* required node still exists, but at least 4*s are relatively easy to come by nowadays. It's even possible to earn a progression cover without actually having said 4*, which then opens up the possibility to compete in future events. A 5* though? It doesn't work that way. There is no way to get specific 5*s outside of token pulls. So now your ability to compete is measured solely on: am I lucky enough to have pulled the required 5* for this event?

Previously it was possible for anyone with enough time spent to compete for PvE placement. In fact it's how I built most of my roster. For a long time I was a PvE monster, and regularly took the top 1 or top 2 slot when I really wanted it. I knew how to time my clears, when to start my grinds, and I was rewarded for my effort. Nowadays my life is more busy and I can't give that kind of performance every event, but every so often I'll make the time for it. 

For the current run of Unstable ISO-8 I was debating this, since Mockingbird is super neat and I didn't play her release event. But then I opened the event and saw that the event required one of the three 5*s I don't have a single cover for, which made my decision for me. Now we have Rogue in the next event, who is possibly my favorite X-Man of all time, and I'm definitely willing to put in the time and effort for her. But oh look, the required 5* is again one of the few I don't have. And with the 5* node having more points attached to it than anything else, there's absolutely zero chance of me making top 10, and even top 50 might be out of reach. So unless I feel like throwing literally thousands of dollars at a 1% chance of getting a Doc Ock cover, I'm completely forced out of competing for Rogue.

I understand putting the 5* node in SCL9. It's fresh and new and you need some way to entice people to deal with levels that high. But throwing it into both SCL7 and SCL8 feels incredibly contemptuous towards those outside of 5* land.

TheXMan

I think it stinks.  SCL9 gives significantly better rewards so it might be worth the extra effort but I would like to see it removed from SCL7 and possibly even 8.

shardwick

Completely against the 5* being in 7. Scaling brought 5* players down to 7 and the 5* node brought even more down. I was already leaning towards quitting the game, more from boredom overall than anything, but recent changes have been making me want to quit even more. Probably will see if they bring any new changes to the game to keep me playing, maybe something like a much better progression system to earn more 4*s, but for now I don't see myself playing much after Anniversary is over.

Also, drop down to CL6 to get Rogue. No 5* node to deal with and it's the first CL to reward new 4s.. Granted I don't know how many 5*s have dropped down to there but you shouldn't have too much trouble snagging at least one Rogue.

Killians8

I'm totally fine with it. I have rostered all fives I have every gotten so those choices have paid off. I don't have the current 5* Spidey (this event) or 5* Daredevil. Thems the breaks. We all went through periods earlier in the game where we didn't have 3* or 4* characters until we could get them. This isn't much different.

Your argument that 5*s are harder to get is irrelevant. RNG has always been a part of this game and largely determined our access to characters aside from progression rewards. I enjoy the opportunity later to get what I don't have and play those nodes next time around.

TPF Alexis

I'm not terribly happy with it myself. It's forced me down to SCL6 for the last couple of events, since I can't place high enough to get the HP I need without the 5*. Since I have Doc Ock, I'm jumping back up to 7 for the next one, and we'll see how I feel about it then.

I do have an issue with it because of the RNG thing. For Players in SCL7-8, it was always possible to get the Required 4* from Progression either late in the first Sub or early in the second. There is no reliable way to get any given 5*. SCL7, in particular, has rewards balanced for 3*-4* transitioners, who are unlikely to have as broad a collection of 5* as solidly 4* Players.

smkspy

Only thing that annoys me is the scaling for the node. 5s are practically worthless regardless of cover numbers if at 255, but the scaling goes beyond the levels stated for each scl...It's just a huge boost and HP sucker once you go for final grind clears.

Players in 7 and 8 were already at a disadvantage with scl, now even more so. Make me have zero sympathy for 5 star pvp complainers whenever the progression change happens.

crackninja

I'm happy with it even though I don't even have the first 3 5*'s they are using. It's more potential rewards,  it means hitting max progression when you do have the 5* is now much more like 4 clears again, and it shows that there is a desire to integrate 5* characters into the game which is a good sign long term.

ProfessorGumby

I'm fine with it in 8... thanks!

STOPTHIS

I've been playing in scl7 to take it easy these past 2 events and I don't mind it having a 5* node, but I don't love it either. Then again, I've got every 5* (so far) rostered. So for me, I like the extra token and other rewards. The annoying aspects of the node are more to the scaling and how useless even decently covered 5*s are without any ISO in them. Also another hard node to grind in a pain. I'd wish they were only goon nodes at lower SCLs, but that's not fair to 9.

For younger rosters though, these have to be the worst addition in some time. You get told about not rostering 5*s early on and now you're at a time where you need that Starlord cover you sold and your chances of getting him during the event are close to nil. And while it doesn't effect progression, placement is still very important and one of the best ways to advance your rosters. And I'm not sure the devs get that based on how little difference in placement rewards there are between 7 & 8. It also is going to screw with younger rosters who joined alliances hoping to get higher alliance rewards. If you can't do the 5* node, then your score is lower, then you hurt your alliance ranking, which could lead to you being booted.

If they're going to expect everyone to use 5*s more, they need to make them more available and attainable.

killercool

Not much difference between 5* nodes at SCL7 and 4* nodes at SCL1 that I can see.  There are going to be folks that don't have the required character in both situations.

At some point there have to be things that you need to work towards.

TeamStewie

STOPTHIS said:

For younger rosters though, these have to be the worst addition in some time. You get told about not rostering 5*s early on and now you're at a time where you need that Starlord cover you sold and your chances of getting him during the event are close to nil. And while it doesn't effect progression, placement is still very important and one of the best ways to advance your rosters. And I'm not sure the devs get that based on how little difference in placement rewards there are between 7 & 8. It also is going to screw with younger rosters who joined alliances hoping to get higher alliance rewards. If you can't do the 5* node, then your score is lower, then you hurt your alliance ranking, which could lead to you being booted.

This is my main beef. Being able to get into a good alliance is invaluable to people just trying to get going and between this and scaling being removed things are going to be even harder on them.

Skygazing

Killians8 said:

I'm totally fine with it. I have rostered all fives I have every gotten so those choices have paid off. I don't have the current 5* Spidey (this event) or 5* Daredevil. Thems the breaks. We all went through periods earlier in the game where we didn't have 3* or 4* characters until we could get them. This isn't much different.

Your argument that 5*s are harder to get is irrelevant. RNG has always been a part of this game and largely determined our access to characters aside from progression rewards. I enjoy the opportunity later to get what I don't have and play those nodes next time around.

This isn't the same at all and I don't think you actually get the argument. RNG has been a part of the game, yes, but acquiring covers to compete in events was never like this. I've been playing since 3 hour refreshes were a thing. If you put in the time and effort you could get more covers, which would help you compete to get more covers. There is literally no such mechanism for 5*s.

killercool said:

Not much difference between 5* nodes at SCL7 and 4* nodes at SCL1 that I can see.  There are going to be folks that don't have the required character in both situations.

At some point there have to be things that you need to work towards.

You don't see the 4* cover that sits in reachable progression for both PvE and PvP? You don't see the lack of anything similar for 5*s? There isn't anything to work towards. It doesn't exist. There is no magic way to get 5*s without relying on RNG and just randomly pulling them. There is nothing you can do to "work" towards a 5*.

dylflon

I mean, I'm fine with it but I'm not usually competing for placement due to lack of free time.


I'll just go to SCL9 for those sweet, sweet 3CP hits anyways.

Jaedenkaal

I'm fine with it. My roster advancement has been good enough without placement rewards, so this is a bonus for me.

Dragon_Nexus

I dropped to CL7 because I disliked the high level nodes in CL8 that require two AoEs to complete, making the whole thing feel like a drag.

Suddenly one of those nodes has crept into CL7 and the first two have used relatively recent 5*s rather than starting with the obvious Silver Surfer, someone people likely have more covers for.

I'm not overly keen on grinding out these slower, more painful nodes. But I don't hate them with a passion or anything...

Dotproduct

killercool said:

At some point there have to be things that you need to work towards.

And that point is SCL8 and SCL9.

shardwick

You can get top 10 in CL5 by playing optimally even without having the 4*. I've done it and finished as high as 2nd and that was before the new scaling. The same can't be said for not having the 5* in CL7 or higher. Hell I finished in 47th in CL7, by the skin of my teeth, on Venom Bomb without the 5* and that was playing optimally. 

@Skygazing , I was thinking that you needed top 50 to get Rogue in 7, but forgot that it's top 100 for one cover so you should still be able to get it there if you want. If you play pretty optimally and tend to place well in new character events then definitely drop to CL6 though.

Skygazing

@shardwick SCL6 is a decent option, though it means missing out on a Mockingbird in progression sadly. Thankfully new releases have better placement rewards since the standard for SCL6 IIRC is one cover for the number one slot.

ABaker84

Generally speaking I like the concept, and rewards, though it needs some revisions:

1) boost the character, so many players only have 1 or 2 covers off a given 5* so you basically have to take on high level opponents with your 2 best 4*characters

2) can't be a character in latest (DocOc)... so lame. 

3) make 5s more accessible

As for the OP, this game has always been about roster progress, so don't expect that to change. But you're right about the gap in accessibility between 4s and 5s. For 4s you can earn on their release event as a placement reward, then another cover on their required event, usually a different color than the first (wasn't the case for mockingbird, though) and are usually available as the final progress reward in sim the following season. But 5s don't even come close to that. If they are going to be required, they need to be more accessible. 

Orion

The concept is ok, but a little shady to have it in CL7.  The real troll move is to make the first 3 essentials the 3 newest 5*s besides Daredevil.  That's just mean.  I know quite a few people that were hoarding until Doc Ock rotated out, and now they have to pull to get a Doc Ock cover so they can compete for the new character. 

shardwick

Skygazing said:

@shardwick SCL6 is a decent option, though it means missing out on a Mockingbird in progression sadly. Thankfully new releases have better placement rewards since the standard for SCL6 IIRC is one cover for the number one slot.

Yeah, just one cover in regular events in CL6 while I think you can earn four with a top 1-2 finish in new character events. Sucks that I'll miss out on the Mockingbird cover but I mean Rogue and Iron Man are my two favorite Marvel characters. Plus I'm sure I can get plenty more of Mockingbird down the road though.