Infinity Season *Updated (9/19/17)

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  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    pheregas said:
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this new system works wonderfully for soft cappers and newbies.  Veterans and those with advanced rosters suffer.

    With Nefarious, there is no loaner, so my MMR forces me to fight all 5* teams (usually with a boosted Thanos) and super boosted 4*s.

    I definitely have some of my own.  I can win.  It just costs 2-3 health packs per fight.  

    Front runners have the advantage of hitting seals, but if you start late due to real life, you are stuck with what you can find.  And in order to keep up with health pack regeneration, that's only one battle every 1-1.5 hours.

    This system is not fun.  More work for less rewards.  It actively makes me not want to play PVP.  In fact, I am not playing for placement at all and may not participate at all in BFFs.  Wall to wall Panthos is my guess.

    If this is the way PVP goes, I guess I go back to full time PVE only (like the early days).  

    But honestly, this system does have one thing that might be good.  Use wins only for the basis of PVP Simulator, but keep regular PVP unchanged.
    End of event follow up. I had to play to 1700 points to get the former 900 point prize. No shields were used up to this point.

    All this and I still won't finish t10, so no CP for
    me.

    This is ridiculous. And it's only going to be worse for BFF. "Off season" used to be nice and relaxing. This change makes me question why I bothered developing a roster and putting time, effort, and money into this game.

    @Brigby This change alienates your player base, makes the game more work for less rewards, and really takes the fun out of a mobile game. This test really helps me realize that if I want to
    succeed, I need to ignore family, friends, and work.

    I know what will ultimately win. And it doesn't rhyme with Carvel Muzzle Fest.
  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
    Major improvement. More relaxed gameplay, good rewards. Finally players who don't have full champed 4* roster have a chance to get a 4* cover.
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2017
    Spudgutter said:

    .. what point during typing this do you not recognize that you are in the super     minority here?  ...
    Why does the game have to be dumbed down so every single player can succeed? Failure is ok. 

    There's been times I've gotten stopped from 1200 because I messed something up and that's good.

    PVE is the game mode for the masses. Just about idiot proof for progression rewards.

    PvP offers a little more. It's where the roster you paid for or the roster you built by spending tons of time (grinding everything else but PvP) can be put to the test.

    I could literally never look at my phone (other to open nodes) and play pve & ddq. Win based PvP would be more of the same.
  • Yoik
    Yoik Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker

    I gave up / ran out of time at 30 wins sitting at 1250 points in the first pvp of this mini season / test thing.

     

    That was after being hit 3 times and 1 of those was a win.

     

    I don’t mind a win based system but I think the amount of required wins for the progression is too high. 30 is a good number. I also think that cp rewards need to be part of the progression still or make the reward for placement give it out top 25 maybe. Sometimes in the pools I end up on top 50 plus all have 1200 points atm.

     

    1250 points for 30 wins is probably about right. This is with me cherry picking low points and not really giving a monkeys about what team I hit in a bid to be a slow climb.

  • Razamataz
    Razamataz Posts: 59 Match Maker
    Hate this new system I've done 24 wins to get to 900 points and shielded out, which would've give me 4star but now I don't get t as have to fight double the matches.
    Also MMR seems to be screwed big time my highest boosted character are 379,376,372 and below and i'm getting slammed by 550 rosters yet no matter how much I skip I don't see easier teams just boosted rhulks everywhere
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    Vhailorx said:

    Under the new system, no more than 2% of players (maybe 3% counting unfilled brackets) will ever be able to get the cp.  

    And what people sometimes forget. If you're not in the 2% now, chances are that you won't be in the top 2% next year either.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2017
    Starfury said:
    Vhailorx said:

    Under the new system, no more than 2% of players (maybe 3% counting unfilled brackets) will ever be able to get the cp.  

    And what people sometimes forget. If you're not in the 2% now, chances are that you won't be in the top 2% next year either.
    This is why I'm not overly impressed with the SCL9 change.  Due to the way the time slices are layed out I'll never be able to consistently hit above T20 or T50.  This change might have me try SCL9 if I really need the 4* placement prize awarded from T50, but it certainly won't be often or my preference.  I suspect this will be the same with many, especially those who easily can get T10 or higher by dropping down to SCL7.  The almost 0 changes to placement makes no sense to me at all.
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    Vhailorx said:
    shardwick said:
    Justice Jacks said:
    shardwick said:
    I hit 40 with a day and a half left in the event. Hit the seed nodes, then did 4 fights here and there to get to the next reward. I was at 38 before I knew it and was like "Oh, just a couple more for the 4* and I'm done." Granted I still need to do one final run to help with placement, alliance and season rewards but overall this has been pretty relaxing and stress free. The best part is that I played with teams that I had fun with instead of running a stronger defensive team that would deter people from attacking me.

    I was attacked A LOT. And I lost A LOT. But you know what? Didn't care. Not even a little. Not the teeny tiniest bit of care because when I lost 90+ pts I didn't have to think "Well, that's at least three fights I have to do just to get back those points and that's before I even start to progress to the next reward I want! Ugh!" Nope, not this time. Retal against the easier opponents, skip the rest. Easy peasy.
    And how many CP did you earn for that effort?  I don't mind the new system, I don't have to do anything different but it will keep the CP from going to the smaller rosters so those of us that were lucky enough to develop ours in the past shall even more quickly outpace those preparing to transition.  Far less competition from below under this new meta.  Hope those that were pushing for this are happy with the results they'll see.  4-5 star transition will be on life support as CP is being starved out of those rosters.  A 4-star roster should be able to hit 1200 nearly all events and get that 15 CP if they choose to under the old system.  In the new meta, not a chance as practically all of them will be locked out of placement.   (Unless, of course, they release CL9 and 10, and then maybe they'll be enough available slots that some may squeak in). 
    I wasn't getting the cp before so it's not like I'm losing it. I will be gaining more hp though from not having to do an eight hour shield anymore. And sure you could hit 1200 to get 15 cp but at what cost? Throwing away hp left and right to do it? I'd rather have the hp for my roster and buying packs now and then. And competition? More people are playing. I got a ton of attacks from people with weaker rosters than mine. It was the same on the very first test too. In the old system I RARELY ever saw someone with a weaker roster. Almost all were a bit above me or waaaaaay above me and guaranteed losses. Now it's the complete opposite.

    Thus is an incredibly shortshighted position to take.  Under the old system, you were not yet able to get the 1200 cp.  But level up some characters and get a bit of experience with ideal pvp play and you could have been getting that extra 45 cp a week (as could anyone else with a strong 4* roster and some dedication to thr game).

    Under the new system, no more than 2% of players (maybe 3% counting unfilled brackets) will ever be able to get the cp.  

    What a great deal. . .for demi/d3!  This change takes cp out of the players' hands in exhcange for more grinding.  Democratizing the 4* tier was both necessary and inevitable.  But as usual, demi is giving players a small, nice cookie with one hand while proverbially picking our pockets with the other.  Don't be distracted by the cookie.  This change is a net negative for the playerbase and we shouldn't accept it.  Prog by win total is ok in principle, but we need a lower win total for 4*s and cp back in progression.
    I think the entire player base is in agreement on this (for once!) and that's why it won't happen. But, hey, maybe we'll get lucky and it will!
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    acescracked said:
    Spudgutter said:

    .. what point during typing this do you not recognize that you are in the super minority here?  ...
    Why does the game have to be dumbed down so every single player can succeed? Failure is ok. 

    There's been times I've gotten stopped from 1200 because I messed something up and that's good.

    PVE is the game mode for the masses. Just about idiot proof for progression rewards.

    PvP offers a little more. It's where the roster you paid for or the roster you built by spending tons of time (grinding everything else but PvP) can be put to the test.

    I could literally never look at my phone (other to open nodes) and play pve & ddq. Win based PvP would be more of the same.
    You overlooked the other half of my quote.  You have been on the forum long enough, and have seen that thread from the devs, where they want to encourage play over the whole event.  

    Do i agree that win count should come down? Yes
    Do i agree that cp should be in prog? Yes

    The fact is this isn't your game. It isn't my game, either.  Look at cl9 in pve and the 5* required node they put in. How many vets would have requested it be implemented this way?  Some, but definitely not many.  

    Like it or not, they are trying to appeal to the largest market, not the smallest.  And you are a liar if you said you wouldn't do the same if your job/income/livelihood were directly correlated to it as well.
  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards

    I think the entire player base is in agreement on this (for once!) and that's why it won't happen. But, hey, maybe we'll get lucky and it will!
    The problem is that it is ridiculously high, but the only way to prove it to them is to not achieve it.  However, the player base is so starved for covers that they will go through extraordinary measures to get it.  It's not fun, but we want the rewards.

    Once we've done this, the devs are convinced they've set the metrics properly.

    We need the community-agreed upon commitment to boycott a single event.  All slices, to prove the point.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    pheregas said:

    I think the entire player base is in agreement on this (for once!) and that's why it won't happen. But, hey, maybe we'll get lucky and it will!
    The problem is that it is ridiculously high, but the only way to prove it to them is to not achieve it.  However, the player base is so starved for covers that they will go through extraordinary measures to get it.  It's not fun, but we want the rewards.

    Once we've done this, the devs are convinced they've set the metrics properly.

    We need the community-agreed upon commitment to boycott a single event.  All slices, to prove the point.
    I said this in my alliance chat room. If win based turns up in a regular season and it looks like I fear it might (~475 wins for the 10 events and shield sim or ~20 wins each day over the course of the season). I'm all for a boycott, but will  it work? Will everyone actually do it?
  • Nepenthe
    Nepenthe Posts: 283 Mover and Shaker
    Milk Jugz said:
    pheregas said:

    I think the entire player base is in agreement on this (for once!) and that's why it won't happen. But, hey, maybe we'll get lucky and it will!
    The problem is that it is ridiculously high, but the only way to prove it to them is to not achieve it.  However, the player base is so starved for covers that they will go through extraordinary measures to get it.  It's not fun, but we want the rewards.

    Once we've done this, the devs are convinced they've set the metrics properly.

    We need the community-agreed upon commitment to boycott a single event.  All slices, to prove the point.
    I said this in my alliance chat room. If win based turns up in a regular season and it looks like I fear it might (~475 wins for the 10 events and shield sim or ~20 wins each day over the course of the season). I'm all for a boycott, but will  it work? Will everyone actually do it?
    I don't know if I'd call it a boycott on my end, but if this change gets implemented as is, I'll definitely be playing pvp a lot less.

    Within the last month I went from being a 4* player with a broad roster and gradually leveling 5*s, to taking the plunge and champing four 5*s. Thanos, BP, Strange, & Hawkeye.  So I've got a good kit for 5* pvp now, but it is SUCH A SLOG. Longer matches, more healthpack use even when I win, much more time spent on it. The only good offset was that I started seeing more high value targets, so I could get 70-75 points for a win more often than before.  Now I need to get 40 wins regardless?  Tiny kitty that.

    I hit 20 wins in Nefarious Foes and just quit.  I didn't see a single target below level 450 the whole time.  Just don't have the time or patience for it. 
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    pheregas said:

    I think the entire player base is in agreement on this (for once!) and that's why it won't happen. But, hey, maybe we'll get lucky and it will!
    The problem is that it is ridiculously high, but the only way to prove it to them is to not achieve it.  However, the player base is so starved for covers that they will go through extraordinary measures to get it.  It's not fun, but we want the rewards.

    Once we've done this, the devs are convinced they've set the metrics properly.

    We need the community-agreed upon commitment to boycott a single event.  All slices, to prove the point.
    Please pick one with a good 4* in placement please since I might actually have a chance for once :-p
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2017
    I am about 200 days behind angjo, but feel almost the same way.  Not sure i agree on participation v competition comment, but i totally agree with the bilbo quote!
  • elvy75
    elvy75 Posts: 225 Tile Toppler
    i already made a thread about PVP, but yeah, to recap it here, either make MMR fully open (not so nice towards little rosters) or simply add 3rd choice when you are to choose clearance level and slice to choose weather you want progression to be points based or win based. That would be win win for everyone.

    I personally couldn't play to 40 matches this time as i had fever and playing mpq wasn't on my priority list, and I still finished t5, but i honestly cant see myself playing 40 matches. 
  • Maceo511
    Maceo511 Posts: 67 Match Maker
    edited September 2017
    My 40th match got me to 987, so not much different than the norm.  I will say opening up MMR would probably help a lot of the people complaining, I imagine
  • TrixieTime
    TrixieTime Posts: 16 Just Dropped In
    edited September 2017
    PVE focused player here. I LOVE the new PVP test. I can pick my progression level that I want to hit and work for it. (Spoiler: 10 covers). Don't care about placement. I'm never high enough to worry about it. This change actually makes PVP accessible and fun for me to participate in. Just wanted to post a pro-test POV. I won't be boycotting anything.

    That said, I felt the way many of the long-term players here feel whenever Magic PQ went to a standard format, so I empathize. I was super angry, but eventually found a way to make peace with that and enjoy the game again.
  • Justice Jacks
    Justice Jacks Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
    broll said:
    pheregas said:
    I think the entire player base is in agreement on this (for once!) and that's why it won't happen. But, hey, maybe we'll get lucky and it will!
    The problem is that it is ridiculously high, but the only way to prove it to them is to not achieve it.  However, the player base is so starved for covers that they will go through extraordinary measures to get it.  It's not fun, but we want the rewards.

    Once we've done this, the devs are convinced they've set the metrics properly.

    We need the community-agreed upon commitment to boycott a single event.  All slices, to prove the point.
    Please pick one with a good 4* in placement please since I might actually have a chance for once :-p
    This change that you and the forumites have pushed for all but assures you won't have a chance again.  I hope it was worth it.  I know I am appreciating it.  Ironically, this is far better a system for many that are against it, and will be far worse for those that were, and are still, advocating for it.  

    A fully developed 4 star roster just went from being able to earn a minimum of 75 CP a week in PVP to 30.  Meanwhile, the Haves continue to get everything they were previously getting, albeit in a different manner.  The Haves that previously transitioned into 5-star land will continue to pull away from the HaveNots that are stuck in 4-star land or below. 

    As to Pheregas' original comment, I had an alliance mate hit 400 wins in the first event of this mini-season.  Many transitioned players had all their season rewards with 12+hrs left on the first event.  40 wins is easy for the people that were already top scorers.  And is hard for the smaller rosters, but it should be hard as you're getting a cover that was more difficult to achieve (based on the complaints here) under the prior meta.  And that's why D3 didn't tweak that number at all from the first to second test. 

    In short, a perfect example of be careful what you wish for.

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