Infinity Season *Updated (9/19/17)

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  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    shardwick said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    Alterationartist said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    I've hit 900 in over 20 straight events and could do it in 20 or less wins, even with taking a few hits. To now have to put in DOUBLE effort for the SAME tinykitty rewards absolutely makes it a grind. This is pure madness. I, personally, don't want to see any change. But, if change has to be made the best solution is an either/or system. Example, the 4* cover is earned by winning 40 matches OR getting 900 points. Anything less is a slap in the face to some part of the player base.
    So this is of detriment to you because you can reach 900 points to get a 4* in an event. And not even really so much of a detriment since you're not LOSING the ability to get that reward. But what of those many who, try as they might, cannot get to 900 points even WITH 40 wins, 50 wins, 100 wins, or more? Are they to be forced to permanently suffer without anything to show for it, just because you have to win more matches to get the same thing you always do? Why not propose less wins, like 30-ish, instead of saying no change or a compromised change be made?

    Needs of the many. D3 isn't a charity appealing to you and the group of people with your exact situation. They're a business, and a business needs masses.
    Plenty of people, including myself, called for less wins to the 4* cover after the first test. This second test shows us where all that got us.

    Also, as pointed out in previous discussions, Versus progression rewards have never been guaranteed rewards. You need to have a roster that can get to them to even have a chance in the first place. That is how a Versus event should work. You shouldn't be able to get that cover with a roster of 2*s!!!

    I'm not asking D3 to be a charity to appeal to me. THE PEOPLE THAT CAN'T GET THE COVER WITHOUT WIN BASED PROGRESSION ARE THE ONES ASKING FOR CHARITY!!!!!!!!!
    Wanting a better system isn't charity. I mean I could play that card too. It wasn't that long ago when high level players were begging and pleading for a better pve system. Charity would be if players wanted to only do like 10 wins for max rewards. Here? You have people that are more than willing to do 30+ wins to get max rewards. I want everyone to be able to get max rewards if they're willing to put in the work, or shields, to get them no matter if they're brand new and in CL1 or have been playing the game since day 1.
    Alterationartist played that card, I was responding to it.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    smkspy said:
    Spudgutter said:
    Alterationartist said:
    vinsensual said:

    Alterationartist said:
    I wouldn't call that a 'common sense' approach, so much as a 'he who chases two rabbits' approach. The big issue that's going to pop up is how to balance these two measurements, and more importantly, programming this. There could be all sorts of anomalies and exploits that could pop up in that system, where people could get the same reward twice or even not get a tier reward at all, born of a conflict of two measured bits of data. It sounds incredibly easy to say, but it's still a c option that has a high probability of being just as big of a burden.

    Not common sense. Something like this requires way more thinking than just saying it
    If you're gonna defend this new progression system by claiming the "needs of the many," you should support this option C because it increases the amount of the population in that "many." Dismissing the resolution because you can speculate problems is just being antagonizing. 
    This new progression solves more problems now than it creates. Developing a third option will take even more test runs, more programming, more time. I'm all for option C being made over option B, but I would take Option B over Option A by just as wide of a margin. I would prefer taking this system as the primary one for a season or two while developing a third option system, but it seems like the vets are insistent on just sticking with what we have now until option C is made and ready for release.
    And by cherry picking which comments you want to rebut, it seems like you are insistent on sticking with you presumption instead of being open to other ideas that are based on reality.  See how easy it is to paint with broad strokes?

    smkspy said:
    The devs want us to play pvp. IF it means that top tier players have to play a few more rounds, then so what, we lower tier players also have to play the few more rounds. But if the system, despite playing more, allows everyone to gain much needed covers, then I don't see the problem...other than top tier players not wanting others to advance their roster. 

    Placement is still there for those that want it, what harm is there for allowing everyone else to gain progression rewards with having to shield hop or line coordinate?

    Ultimately, more customers playing pvp means more hits for everyone else. More customer engagement means the game lasts even longer.
    I am not trying to stifle competition, and agree with what you are saying, but two points;

    If i saw a 20-25% increase in play time, then i would understand (comparing 4 clears to 5 in pve).  But it isnt.  It isnt just a few more matches, for some it is double, on already tricky matches(they weren't kidding, cascades at the 5* level are brutal) that require a lot more health packs. If i could just use different team after different team, experiment with who works together, that would be great.  This isn't that, i am forced to use 1 or 2 health packs after every match.  I no longer can play when i want, i have to play around the them regenerating. 

    Removing the cp from progression is a big step back.  I stop around 900-1000, so this doesn't impact me personally, but it has been a carrot at the end of a stick for a long time, and for that to go away is another ome of the steps back i was mentioning 
    I'm in the same boat, as I use all my health packs reaching 40 wins, but really, isn't it a small price to pay after 5 star players got scl pve that allows you to clear scl 8 quite easily. I mean, look, there has to be some give and take when it comes to gameplay. I agree about losing to final co.thlugh
    Absolutely. I give more time, sure.  But double?  Then throw me a bone; tweak mmr or something a little bit.  Lower the win count at higher scl.  Hybrid win/point system.  Anything. Just repeating the test with longer parameters doesn't help any.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2017
    Alterationartist said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    Alterationartist said:
    vinsensual said:

    Alterationartist said:
    I wouldn't call that a 'common sense' approach, so much as a 'he who chases two rabbits' approach. The big issue that's going to pop up is how to balance these two measurements, and more importantly, programming this. There could be all sorts of anomalies and exploits that could pop up in that system, where people could get the same reward twice or even not get a tier reward at all, born of a conflict of two measured bits of data. It sounds incredibly easy to say, but it's still a c option that has a high probability of being just as big of a burden.

    Not common sense. Something like this requires way more thinking than just saying it
    If you're gonna defend this new progression system by claiming the "needs of the many," you should support this option C because it increases the amount of the population in that "many." Dismissing the resolution because you can speculate problems is just being antagonizing. 
    This new progression solves more problems now than it creates. Developing a third option will take even more test runs, more programming, more time. I'm all for option C being made over option B, but I would take Option B over Option A by just as wide of a margin. I would prefer taking this system as the primary one for a season or two while developing a third option system, but it seems like the vets are insistent on just sticking with what we have now until option C is made and ready for release.
    You might take option B over A by a wide margin and so might some others. But there are plenty of us here who would take A over B. Again, there needs to be a different solution. You, obviously have no idea what it's like to play higher level Versus. This is a horrible change at the top end. There is a big difference in 40 matches against 3* characters than against 5* characters. Even when you consider 3* v 3*, 5* character damage output is FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR greater than 3* and one cascade with just 2 critical matches and you can be down upwards of 20K health. 3* just can't do that kind of damage to each other. I find myself having use 2-3 health packs AFTER EVERY MATCH. Now the matches I need to get the cover I was able to get with 20 wins has been DOUBLED!!!!! Effectively doubling the amount of health packs I need. And that also doesn't mention the health pools. Do you know how much health a 450 Thanos and a 450 Black Panther has? Or that you can't damage Panther for more than around 6.5K at a time or your gonna get panther smacked?!? Stop talking like you understand the GRIND we have to go through, this change effectively doubles the amount of time it will take me to get the same tinykitty rewards I was getting before.
    So being a high level versus player only requires getting 20 wins ever during a 3-day PvP event and calling it quits?
    Yes, the events are 2.5 days or 60 hours long. For hours 60-24 left I play at my pace and don't usually shield. Sometime between 12-24 hours left I climb to 900-1000 and shield for 24 if I have no time and am done, or 8 hrs if I want to hop to 1200. In the last 11 hrs I shield hop to 1200. The 9xx to 12xx hop usually takes 4-5 matches (2 hops) as I can usually find 65-75 point matches. I'm playing 20 or less matches for 9xx, 25 or less for 12xx.

    EDIT: I'll note that I've known this strategy for the last 2 seasons (alliance mates are awesome!!) and have done 1 hop before to land in the 1050-1150 range. But I've only put this into complete practice once in the Lockjaw event. It works as I described and in the next season- should it be point based- I'll be shooting for 1200 in every event (I don't know how much longer I'll be able to get that 15 CP). Also going to go for a personal season high score around 15K. This past season is my current personal best with less than 100 points shy of 12K.
  • technoid
    technoid Posts: 8 Just Dropped In
    i love this event i hope it will stay foever thanks devs:)
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    @Alterationartist

    For a little more disclosure, I didn't understand the high end grind until this past season. At the beginning of it I champed Phoenix. 75% of my queues after 700 points are Panthos. That combination is horrible to face when you don't have your own. My Phoenix has 43K health, can I bring her into battle at 30K- nope! I'm taking a chance of her being taken down, Court Death firing and that's it, I'm done, match over. I've never used so many health packs in Versus or team-ups. I understand why my alliance mates rely on them so heavily now and have started adjusting my strategy as well. Finding the best team-ups to one shot Panther every week is the best way to go. Queuing high point targets is very important so you have less matches to play, thus less health packs to use. Doubling my matches, doubles my health packs. Versus should not get more frustrating as you progress your roster!! We all have felt your frustration and got past it without the developers changing the system to help us. You should be able to do the same and find greener pastures. If this change goes permanent you will find Versus more frustrating as you progress and then maybe you will see what we are trying to say......
  • alaeth
    alaeth Posts: 446 Mover and Shaker
    @Milk Jugz

    I think you've summed up my frustration and "The Problem" very clearly...

    From what I'm reading here, anyone without Championed 5s is in favor of the new mode... allows lazy progression with zero drawbacks. They don'r see the health-pack black-hole that is 5* PvP

    It is not fun.  It is not rewarding. and it does NOT make me feel like the 3+ years of investment are worth it.  If anything, this type of grind-fest takes me closer to retirement.
  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    Shardwick:  if you want everyone to get the top rewards if they are willimg to put in the work. Then why the tinykitty do you support this tinykitty new system that takes the very best prize (cp) and ensures that only 2% if players can ever get it?

    Vets would be WAY less upset if cp were available for 40 wins, or if they were still at 1200 points.  
    I support a hybrid system. And I also was pretty upset that they moved cp to placement rewards and even more annoyed that they didn't update the reward structure with the new test. If it were up to me the final rewards would be the following:

    32 wins/900pts - 4* cover
    40 wins/1200 pts - cp
  • zulux21
    zulux21 Posts: 249 Tile Toppler
    *Sigh* the game clearly keeps track of how many defense wins we get. and with the previous point things the defense wins could push you over thresholds....

    cant we get defensive wins to count? that would make the totals a lot less of the grind. I think I have 7 or so defensive wins already.
  • Tiggida
    Tiggida Posts: 64 Match Maker
    This was a horrible event to run a test on. Teams of 80k+ health Thanos/70-80K+ rhulk/50-70k+ champed 5*. Im having so much fun trying to win 40 matches especially when I hit 900 pts after 18 matches and it would've been less if I was targeting higher pts like I normally do. This is a good thing for transitioning rosters that were banging their heads against a wall for progression rewards, but it's absolutely brutal for advanced rosters. 
  • Doc L
    Doc L Posts: 279 Mover and Shaker
    granne said:
    For the record, I don't have any champed 5*s and I hate the test.

    There are plenty of 4* rosters who share that view, if my alliance is anything to go by.

    A few friends I know in the 4* level are hating it - I hope people see this, the test is not universally good for non-5* rosters... There's something not right about the MMR more than anything for some people still, despite the change.
  • supergarv
    supergarv Posts: 410 Mover and Shaker
    Just want to drop one thing: I hate the grind of 5x PVE. And 40 pvp wins are too much.

    if this gets implemented and 5x clear is there to stay, I'll retire after 900 days of "properly" playing and paying for the game, and only do alliance events and the DDQ crashes.

    Make the game enjoyable for 1hr a day, invent something new, but don't enforce more grinding. I don't think you'll get more money out of it this way, D3.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2017
    supergarv said:
    Just want to drop one thing: I hate the grind of 5x PVE. And 40 pvp wins are too much.

    if this gets implemented and 5x clear is there to stay, I'll retire after 900 days of "properly" playing and paying for the game, and only do alliance events and the DDQ crashes.

    Make the game enjoyable for 1hr a day, invent something new, but don't enforce more grinding. I don't think you'll get more money out of it this way, D3.
    I dont know that i will quit outright, but i agree with this analysis.  

    Playing to max prog in dec. 2016:
    ~36 pve matches per day
    ~22 pvp matches 3x a week.

    To get more or less same rewards now requires:
    ~45 pve matches per day
    ~40 pv matches 3x per week PLUS 3x top 10 finishes.

    It's nice that 4* covers will be a bit easier to get. But the 4* meta is ending already.  It's becoming a 5* game now (i know this because i am finally entering 5* land.  And demi has consistently shifted the game right around the time i, and really players like me, start reaching the meta.)
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    Let's stretch this out for a regular season, if it's 67 wins for a 2 event mini season, it's 335 wins for max progression in a regular season. In a 21 day season that's 16 wins/day

    Thanks but no thanks
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2017
    fmftint said:
    Let's stretch this out for a regular season, if it's 67 wins for a 2 event mini season, it's 335 wins for max progression in a regular season. In a 21 day season that's 16 wins/day

    Thanks but no thanks
    @fmftint
    @aesthetocyst

    There are 24 days per season, so that's ~14 wins a day. Hardly any better........ Considering points based requires at most 20 wins per event (every 2.5 days or 8 per day). That's just to get season progression, doesn't guarantee you're getting the 4* cover in each event. To do that you're looking at 40 wins per event. 10 events per season. Meaning 400 wins to get the 10 4* covers. Over 24 days that's ~17 wins per day. And what is shield sim gonna look like? If they value 900 points as 40 wins that's 22.5 points per win. 2000 points for the 4* cover in sim should be valued as ~89 wins!!! But, let's call it 75 wins, over the 24 days (remember that you already need ~17 per day) you need another ~3 per day!!!

    So with a win based progression Versus season including Sim, we could end needing to win ~20 matches per day just to earn the 11 4* covers AND that doesn't guarantee any of the 150 CP from the 10 season events. That is up from around ~10 per day. That is a 100% increase!!

    Some matches take 5 or more minutes, that can easily add a half an hour to an hour to the "daily requirement". I mean, I love this game and all, but I have a wife, a daughter, a business, a life outside of swipe tiles, make matches, gather ap, fire powers....... Anything that adds time to it is most definitely not a welcome change!!


    Major edit... aesthetocyst is correct 24 days per season, I was thinking 28. My apologies.....
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    I hit 40 wins with 1d 8h left. What now?  I guess I need to pace myself more next time but the ability to play on my schedule vs someone else's makes playing much more compelling. Not to mention not being demorialized by watching my progress sift through my fingers everytime I'm not playing for 20 minutes (and sometimes even when I am playing consistently).

    Not perfect for sure but a huge improvement in my opinion. 
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,733 Chairperson of the Boards
    My Heroic 10-pk gave me four 3* covers and five 4* covers. 

    I think I should quit. I don't see how I'll ever achieve this high again. 
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Borstock said:
    My Heroic 10-pk gave me four 3* covers and five 4* covers. 

    I think I should quit. I don't see how I'll ever achieve this high again. 
    Mine gave me 10 2*s. I think I should quit... for a different reason... lol
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2017
    Milk Jugz said:
    fmftint said:
    Let's stretch this out for a regular season, if it's 67 wins for a 2 event mini season, it's 335 wins for max progression in a regular season. In a 21 day season that's 16 wins/day

    Thanks but no thanks
    @fmftint
    @aesthetocyst

    There are 24 days per season, so that's ~14 wins a day. Hardly any better........ Considering points based requires at most 20 wins per event (every 2.5 days or 8 per day). That's just to get season progression, doesn't guarantee you're getting the 4* cover in each event. To do that you're looking at 40 wins per event. 10 events per season. Meaning 400 wins to get the 10 4* covers. Over 24 days that's ~17 wins per day. And what is shield sim gonna look like? If they value 900 points as 40 wins that's 22.5 points per win. 2000 points for the 4* cover in sim should be valued as ~89 wins!!! But, let's call it 75 wins, over the 24 days (remember that you already need ~17 per day) you need another ~3 per day!!!

    So with a win based progression Versus season including Sim, we could end needing to win ~20 matches per day just to earn the 11 4* covers AND that doesn't guarantee any of the 150 CP from the 10 season events. That is up from around ~10 per day. That is a 100% increase!!

    Some matches take 5 or more minutes, that can easily add a half an hour to an hour to the "daily requirement". I mean, I love this game and all, but I have a wife, a daughter, a business, a life outside of swipe tiles, make matches, gather ap, fire powers....... Anything that adds time to it is most definitely not a welcome change!!


    Major edit... aesthetocyst is correct 24 days per season, I was thinking 28. My apologies.....
        

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