Anyone else feeling the burnout?

LavaManLee

Here's the biggest problem with the game, IMHO.  It actually rewards not playing it.  This is probably a Puzzle Quest thing in general (not sure as I haven't played their other games).  It makes no sense that in PVP you are better off shielding and not playing and in PVE you are better off doing 4 clears as fast as possible, then do nothing, then do 3 clears right before the 24/48 hours expire.

That is absolutely bizarre.  I can't think of any other game that wants you NOT to play it.  Yes, I know there is Simulator and a few other things but Whoop-dee-doo.  Other than that, there are huge amounts of time where you are actually better off NOT playing the game.  Really makes no sense.  And this is coming from someone that loves the game.

bluewolf

I am not sure what other result than "burnout" was expected when the PVE (AKA biggest grind time requirement) was upped from 4 to 5 clears for max progression.  That led to higher scores, and more people going to 6 clears, and 7 now being absolutely required for good placement (not so previously, in my experience, when just 6 sometimes got a 4* cover).  That 7th clear is just sometimes demoralizing - no node rewards, just points that you hope are going to be enough.  I am leaving aside the overgrinding....a whole 'nother ball of wax.

But when you do your best to do 7 optimal clears and realize it isn't enough...and you just missed t10 (or whatever) again...you sometimes think "What a complete waste of time those 7th clears were.  There went 1-2 hours of my week for nothing (maybe 1 3 star cover, I suppose.)"  

I am not sure any solution exists since the only way to discern placement is by time put in...but still.

The best advice for each player is to decide to take an event easy every so often.

Arphaxad

Brigby said:

Arphaxad said:

Thank you every one for commenting. Feels better to know I'm not alone.

Now, I hope the devs hear all this. Brigby , what's the word around the office about player burnout? We are the players that love the game, support the game, and want to be a part of the future.... is there any talk about how to help us feel less over whelmed by the grind?

Hi @Arphaxad. Thanks for bring up this topic. It's certainly a topic we've discussed before in the past. I will be sure to include your thread and its responses in my weekly report, so the team can touch base again on it, especially now that the difficulty levels are ties to S.H.I.E.L.D. clearance levels.

Thank you @Brigby . You all do an amazing job with the game and I know you are doing your best. I hope to hear something soon about how the developers, and the managing group, feel about preventing player burnout. The game is approaching another anniversary and I look forward to celebrating it with you all.

Excelsior!!

Nick441234

I think we'd all be fine if max progression was returned to the 4 clears it was before. The change to 5 clears was completely unnecessary 

Polares

I felt the burnout so much I stopped playing almost completely (I just play DDQ some days now, just out of curiosity to see how the daily resupply evolves, if it ever changes). I still check the forum sometimes, to see which are the new release and to see if things improve, but I am quite detached from this game now (and my money went elsewhere with me).

This year has been awful for vets, so much so, that Devs have had to roll back some of their changes (like vaulting). I think they will also have to roll out the change for the number of completions for PvE to get max progression rewards (this last change was the final straw for me). Really awful changes.

I think I have never EVER seen a game so anti-vet like this one. After 3 or 4 years of playing, and hundreds of dollars spent in the game, everything they kept doing was against us. Well, they won, and I quit.

Bowgentle

Polares said:

I felt the burnout so much I stopped playing almost completely (I just play DDQ some days now, just out of curiosity to see how the daily resupply evolves, if it ever changes). I still check the forum sometimes, to see which are the new release and to see if things improve, but I am quite detached from this game now (and my money went elsewhere with me).

This year has been awful for vets, so much so, that Devs have had to roll back some of their changes (like vaulting). I think they will also have to roll out the change for the number of completions for PvE to get max progression rewards (this last change was the final straw for me). Really awful changes.

I think I have never EVER seen a game so anti-vet like this one. After 3 or 4 years of playing, and hundreds of dollars spent in the game, everything they kept doing was against us. Well, they won, and I quit.

Did you miss the fixed levels in PVE? Best Change for vets EVER.

Polares

Bowgentle said:

Polares said:

I felt the burnout so much I stopped playing almost completely (I just play DDQ some days now, just out of curiosity to see how the daily resupply evolves, if it ever changes). I still check the forum sometimes, to see which are the new release and to see if things improve, but I am quite detached from this game now (and my money went elsewhere with me).

This year has been awful for vets, so much so, that Devs have had to roll back some of their changes (like vaulting). I think they will also have to roll out the change for the number of completions for PvE to get max progression rewards (this last change was the final straw for me). Really awful changes.

I think I have never EVER seen a game so anti-vet like this one. After 3 or 4 years of playing, and hundreds of dollars spent in the game, everything they kept doing was against us. Well, they won, and I quit.

Did you miss the fixed levels in PVE? Best Change for vets EVER.

Yeah, too late for me. I quit before that. But I will say, even being easier now, 5 clears is too much. 5 BORING clears is way way too much.

And I doubt I am going to come back. I basically realised this game is quite boring when you are in 5 land. They should have never released 5s. 

Daiches

Polares said:

Bowgentle said:

Polares said:

I felt the burnout so much I stopped playing almost completely (I just play DDQ some days now, just out of curiosity to see how the daily resupply evolves, if it ever changes). I still check the forum sometimes, to see which are the new release and to see if things improve, but I am quite detached from this game now (and my money went elsewhere with me).

This year has been awful for vets, so much so, that Devs have had to roll back some of their changes (like vaulting). I think they will also have to roll out the change for the number of completions for PvE to get max progression rewards (this last change was the final straw for me). Really awful changes.

I think I have never EVER seen a game so anti-vet like this one. After 3 or 4 years of playing, and hundreds of dollars spent in the game, everything they kept doing was against us. Well, they won, and I quit.

Did you miss the fixed levels in PVE? Best Change for vets EVER.

Yeah, too late for me. I quit before that. But I will say, even being easier now, 5 clears is too much. 5 BORING clears is way way too much.

And I doubt I am going to come back. I basically realised this game is quite boring when you are in 5 land. They should have never released 5s. 

PVE takes less time than DDQ now lol

BoyWonder1914

I definitely experience it between events. My Alliance requirements: 

PVE: 115-120% progression
PVP: 600/event, 9000/season

We are t10 PVE/t50 PVP, which is the most PVE intensive out of the alliances in our family. Because of work schedules and competitive preference I am in s1, which ends at 6 a.m. my time. Getting up early and squeezing in a grind and clears before work definitely gets to me. However, I consistently fell asleep during grinds/clears in s5, and being in s5 meant that my social life was very prone to get in the way. Although I hated early clearing/grinding, I found it easier to wake up and play, than STAY UP and play. Also meant I could enjoy my day as I pleased after work, rather than knowing I would have to cut off certain social activity after a certain time. Also, the score requirements aren't really that daunting when I consider that I would usually want to get 6-7 clears and the highest placement possible for every sub anyway. It's the rewards that keep me playing, and having high goals keeps me motivated to get them. 

New character releases used to be stress-free, but now that I can't be certain how often I'll get covers for new folks, I have to go back to giving them my absolute all. That's really the only burnout I feel that I can't get over, constantly having to run the rat race to get every new character fully covered. When they were going into a vault were they were 1/12, I didn't have to stress how well I performed in the release event. Now if I'm not t10, my 4* progress is slowed considerably. 

Marine8394

Burnout? There is always the old grind drain. Mostly just bored. Yes some new content is finally flowing in, but it's still attached to rewards that are sometimes less then,"meh". Also the new content is the intro of a new character, making pve completely unfun because there are now uber-grinderz that will pound the game for one point at a time just to place. I find that boggling. Man to have that time. Even if I did, no thank u. For me the biggest thing is. It's, SUMMER! I refuse to blow free time on a beautiful day just to get the new shiny Yondu. Again no thank u. Not saying it's wrong, that's just me. Wading a cold stream fishing, or phone in my face? Sorry D3 you lose, see ya this winter.

Beer40

Any time I feel a little bit of the burnout I just take the rest of the event easy, or take the next event easy. I still meet my alliance requirement of PVE max progression but if I needed to miss that because of burnout, I absolutely would.

 I always look at it like this: I'd rather feel mentally healthy than have a digital reward that could be taken from me at any moment, without notice. 

Edit: For perspective, I haven't even entered the Vision PVP. I might, I might not. Choose an alliance that meets YOUR requirements, not the other way around.

supergarv

Just wanna chime in. I am a day 860 player (SCL 102). I am playing about 2,5 hours a day (1,5hrs PVE, 15 min DDQ, 45 min PVP) to cover my required ISO income of about 30k a day. Have 30 4*s champed, 20 max covered and 5 at around half their covers. I spend about 30$ a month.

Part 1: The ISO / gratification game

I have a token hoard of 3334 CP and 124 LT that I dare not to pull because I would need an absurd amount of ISO to not let covers to go waste now that all 4*s are back in the mix. I am hoarding the tokens for maybe the whole year, and it's really annoying the game punishes what should actually be the gratification of gaming. That makes me feel the hamsterwheel a lot; I am grinding away and all I get is an inreasing number of tokens that I dare not to pull. 

Then I come into temptation to sell 2* farm chars for ISO input, only to get the impact that I need to put the ISO back into them and drain my ISO pool for the 4*s. Plus, now I am getting a lot of max champed 3* dupes that I should probably cover up again, but the game has a ridiculously low sell price of max champed 3*s (they should give you a million and not 100k).

The constant input of new 4*s every two weeks means that I can barely collect enough ISO within those two weeks to champ one existing 4*, so with maximum play you are not even able to work on your "backlog".

Part 2: The time commitment

Requiring us to play 5/6 clears for progression rewards is a huge time commitment. With my 4* roster in CL8 it takes me about double the time to clear than it took before (1,5 hours vs. 45 minutes before). I have played CL8 the first time now since the change, and it is just brutal. The rewards compared to CL7 are not incentive enough for that amount of time. To get placement rewards, you want me to grind a total of 3 hours constantly for a wrap between subs - with a mobile game? Please think about what you require from those players. It's a game after all, and it shouldn't chip away 3 hours of your life. Many players like me are addicted, so you should feel a responsibility to those players.

Also - animation and attack tile spam make the game feel totally laggy. Modern games shouldn't be so slow.

Part 3: Missing creativity

You want us players to play the same kind of node again. For a typical sub, for placement, you would play 7*9=63 matches. For one day. Getting an awful amount of "claim" popups, loading screeens, roster selection. And the actual game part is: Repetition just the same.

You have a total of 138 characters. In PVE, we fight against 7 (SEVEN!) of them. For about 2 years. Damn! Make something out of the other characters, other than the sim event. :-D

There could be so much more to the game on the level of playing ideas:

• Create wave teams against a tough enemy
• Make "tag team" battles so that you can use a team of 2*3 characters
• Specific boss events with strategies required
• Node types with a set goal like "make X damage in one turn" or "create a match-5 with a friendly special tile" or "fire 3 powers in one turn"
• Create sim teams that other players need to fight against with set win conditions
• Sandbox play where you pick your own enemies with configurable power levels

Also, work on the UI:

• Allow for creating template teams for those teams that I use in PVE often. It's cumbersome to select them for different node types (easy/hard, goon/non-goon, pvp)
• Re-playing a node quicker

I would love to no longer think about how and at what point I can quit the game, but to have fun playing it. The alliance part of the game and combined boss event is my main enjoyment currently.

Bowgentle

supergarv said:

Part 2: The time commitment

Requiring us to play 5/6 clears for progression rewards is a huge time commitment. With my 4* roster in CL8 it takes me about double the time to clear than it took before (1,5 hours vs. 45 minutes before). I have played CL8 the first time now since the change, and it is just brutal. The rewards compared to CL7 are not incentive enough for that amount of time. To get placement rewards, you want me to grind a total of 3 hours constantly for a wrap between subs - with a mobile game? Please think about what you require from those players. It's a game after all, and it shouldn't chip away 3 hours of your life. Many players like me are addicted, so you should feel a responsibility to those players.

So just go to CL7 for PVE?
You're not getting T10 in 8 if you're taking 3 hours for end grind and initial grind anyway.

Boom, half of your burnout gone, back to 40 minute clears.

Also, with heavy hybrid play you should be getting way more than 30K ISO per day.

supergarv

@Bowgentle You're missing my point. CL8 should be meant for 4* players, CL9/10 for 5ers are missing. CL8 gives the rewards that 4*s need, so I am not in the wrong place
Anyhow; even 80 minutes in CL7 in sub turnarounds is a non-fun grind, day after day. The current situation is not sustainable. D3 should see this in their numbers.

Nick441234

Are you really in 4* land if clears are taking you that long though? It suggests the scaling is too difficult for your roster. 

xidragonxi

Everyone here has pretty much said what I'm feeling, which is super burned-out.  Essentially I don't feel like the rewards have been worth the effort lately.  90% of my matches essentially require (not literally require, but strongly incentivize) me to use my Thanos, which is really boring.  PVP is a slog and PVE is a drag.

My gameplan now is to crack open my hoard of CP and LL tokens once Star-lord leaves the LL pool.  If we get wind of a really good 5* coming after Daredevil, then I might be convinced to wait, but I really want that Spider-Man now.

If I don't end up with a mostly-covered Spidey after I open the hoard, I might just retire.

SL 108, day 1378.

DrDevilDinosaur

Wasn't really feeling any burnout until the Yondu release event. Now in Thick as Thieves, I found it a chore to play up to the Yondu cover for progression and then I've stopped. Can't be bothered to even play for the 8 CP, so I think I'm pretty much done for now.

I'll probably just play DDQ until the anniversary to see if they do anything cool.

Dotproduct

DrDevilDinosaur said:

Wasn't really feeling any burnout until the Yondu release event. Now in Thick as Thieves, I found it a chore to play up to the Yondu cover for progression and then I've stopped. Can't be bothered to even play for the 8 CP, so I think I'm pretty much done for now.

I'll probably just play DDQ until the anniversary to see if they do anything cool.

Wow just like me. For some reason maybe burnout I just stopped mid TaT event and can't even get going to even get the 4*. 

7 days of prodigal sun isn't looking all that appealing really since like most I kept selling Sentry covers and don't have him ready rostered. 

optimus2861

nick_chicane said:

Are you really in 4* land if clears are taking you that long though? It suggests the scaling is too difficult for your roster. 

It could also be the case that he doesn't have the specific 4* boosted heroes for the week well covered / fully leveled / etc. I noticed a difference in clear time going from boosted Medusa (champed) to boosted Cage (4/5/2) & 3* Strange when the weekly list changed. Medusa chews through nodes in a hurry; free attack damage, AP generation, and team healing when you need it. Cage & 3* Strange on the other hand: no AP generation, no attack tiles, just Strange's passive for free damage, and having to watch Cage's animation a lot. Sure you take next to no damage but it's undeniably slower. I may not even get the Yondu cover in TaT because of this. I probably needed a break anyway.

I've sat out this week's PVP too, same reason. My Cage isn't fully covered, nor is my Mordo, so I'm just a sitting duck anyway.

Starfury

I've got a vacation coming up, who knows, maybe the game will find an appropriate place in my days, maybe I'll just jump off the treadmill altogether.

The game definitely feels more like a chore since 5 clears, my participation in PvP has completely collapsed. Went from 10k season score to maybe half of that in the last two seasons.