Difficulty Levels Based on S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Levels - Update (8/4/17) *Updated

Phumade

why is that really a surprise.  A 355 level 5* compared to 450 5* would be like comparing

level 170 4* to 270 4*.  

a level 355 5* on defense will lose everytime to a champed boosted 4* team.run by an exp player.

You are conflating the rarity level with the actual powerlevel.  Which isn't accurate when they are under 405.

A better and more honest way to grade rosters would be

500+  =6* power level
475-500  = 5* + power level
405-475 = 5* power level.
350-405 = 4* plus  (This is the most common band where you see boosted 4*
250-350 = 4* tier.

(this is after applying weekly and feature boost)

each of those bands easily defeat teams below their tier.  the 355 player was running like hell from the other 5*, because they know how competitively people play the higher tiers.

bluewolf

How many leveled 5's are in S6?  And what is the cover spread?  And how many champed 4's do they have?

I think it is worth considering that the player:  1.  Made a poor choice.  (Aka didn't fully understand the costs and benefits of different slices.) 2.  Accidentally chose the wrong slice.  3.  Is experimenting.

You don't need that many covers to take a 5 up to 355.  7?  8 for sure. Too many players level their 5's early when it might be better to focus on a different tier first.  Someone who has undercovered and underleveled 4's might be better off in 6 with 1 or 2 leveled 5's.

Lucifier

Phumade said:

why is that really a surprise.  A 355 level 5* compared to 450 5* would be like comparing

level 170 4* to 270 4*.  

a level 355 5* on defense will lose everytime to a champed boosted 4* team.run by an exp player.

You are conflating the rarity level with the actual powerlevel.  Which isn't accurate when they are under 405.

A better and more honest way to grade rosters would be

500+  =6* power level
475-500  = 5* + power level
405-475 = 5* power level.
350-405 = 4* plus  (This is the most common band where you see boosted 4*
250-350 = 4* tier.

(this is after applying weekly and feature boost)

each of those bands easily defeat teams below their tier.  the 355 player was running like hell from the other 5*, because they know how competitively people play the higher tiers.

Phumade, the CL that we are talking here is about PVE (story mode) not PVP, so there is no defense here (no "a level 355 5* on defense will lose everytime to a champed boosted 4* team.run by an exp player." )

Phumade

Lucifier said:

Phumade, the CL that we are talking here is about PVE (story mode) not PVP, so there is no defense here (no "a level 355 5* on defense will lose everytime to a champed boosted 4* team.run by an exp player." )

lol fair enough.  Top 20 in scl7 pve isn't same challenge as top 20 in scl7 pvp. LOL


That said,  the relative rankings are still the same.  At a practical level a 355 5* deals damage at similar rates to any char leveled to 350-400.  

As a practical matter, do you sincerely believe that a level 300 5* (what about 255)should be competing in Scl7?  I would not be surprised at all if the avg T10 roster in scl7 used only lvl 400+ chars in their pve sub.  I know that in my scl8,  Top 10 players are all in the mid 435+ range.

Lucifier

Phumade  said:

As a practical matter, do you sincerely believe that a level 300 5* (what about 255)should be competing in Scl7?  I would not be surprised at all if the avg T10 roster in scl7 used only lvl 400+ chars in their pve sub. 

the conversation was about CL6, someone said he see 5*char players (level 355) in CL6 PVE.
then i said i don't not understand why would go to CL6.

as a fact when if i have the required 4* char, i can finish top 20 without required 4* i can finish top 50 (at end of event) (my best char is lvl 174 3*), and i am playing in CL7.

a simple fact PVE progression reward in CL7 gives 4* char in CL6 does not (and only have to finish 1st in CL6 in order to get a 4* char) (not to mention other better things cp, HP, iso).

and PVE their scale is fixed does not depend on our rosters (so you reach to a point if you level your char more it might not make that big difference).


level 348 4* medusa (champed) highest match damage 144 * 3 = 432
level 345 5* spiderman (not champed) highest match damage 287 * = 861
level 370 5* thonas (not champed) highest match damage 362 * 3 = 1086

so i do believe 5* char is great (true it is also about ability, but what about 1k just one match, imagine a cascade or match 4 or match 5 with a critical)

Phumade  said:

 I know that in my scl8,  Top 10 players are all in the mid 435+ range.

having certain char in your roaster does not mean you are using them in PVE.

for example do you believe i use 1* black widow (5 covers only, level 1) her full health is 175 only, in some of the PVE nodes in CL7.

and as for 5* char level 370 5* Thonas (not champed) (with 4 black covers) can do 7328 damage to all enemy team members (Court death ability)

anyway with hardest node in CL7, the highest enemy char level is 245, i do believe it is very easy for a player that reach a point of having level 355 5* char.

Phumade

Lucifier said:

and PVE their scale is fixed does not depend on our rosters (so you reach to a point if you level your char more it might not make that big difference).


level 348 4* medusa (champed) highest match damage 144 * 3 = 432
level 345 5* spiderman (not champed) highest match damage 287 * = 861
level 370 5* thonas (not champed) highest match damage 362 * 3 = 1086

so i do believe 5* char is great (true it is also about ability, but what about 1k just one match, imagine a cascade or match 4 or match 5 with a critical)

Phumade  said:

 I know that in my scl8,  Top 10 players are all in the mid 435+ range.

having certain char in your roaster does not mean you are using them in PVE.

No I am specifically saying that everyone in the top 10 of scl8 (and really scl7) are using chars that are boosted over 435+.  They aren't using 1* mbw in any meaningful manner.

Its certainly true that 5* match damage is generally 2x-3x what the same level 4* can accomplish.  but you need to also factor into the power damage in that calculation.  and in fact at a 450 4* has a significant casted power advantage over a 5* at 450.

compare  (all have 5 covers in their offensive power)
thoress at 326 casts red for 13k+ 2.3k per charged.
quake at 308 casts green for 12k
PX at 315 does 12K for a match 5

vs
Sl5 at 450 casts green for 8k damage plus cascades.
BSSM at 450 casts green for 15k 
SS at 457 casts red for 10k

Those same 5* are far inferior to a similarly covered 4* below 400.

You make an economic argument why 5* should be in scl7.  But that argument only works when you apply it at the Macro level and generalize over the entire population of 5* players..

Here we are looking at a specific lineup with a weakly leveled 5* char (6 covers can only go to 345/355?).  You might not make the trade off of weaker match damage for better casting powers,  but I assure you many players have the opposite strategy of looking for better powers and focusing on ap collection.

If your really arguing that Level 400+ rosters (regardless of rarity) should be competing in scl7 or higher, then the vast majority of players would absolutely agree with you.

but as 5* go down in level, lower tier begin to compete very effectively.  i.e. a 255 5* might have a significant match damage advantage over a 266 max champ 3*,  but if the 5* can't end the match on match damage alone, then the 3* have a huge advantage once they start firing powers.

edit

you said"
anyway with hardest node in CL7, the highest enemy char level is 245, i do believe it is very easy for a player that reach a point of having level 355 5* char."

which is true, but prizes are not award based on how easy he beats the node.  They are decided on how fast the other guys can clear that exact same node.

and from that perspective.  All he really cares is how fast his 355 chars are in comparison to the speed of the best players in that sub.  Thats why he went to scl6, because he's not even close to competitive in scl 7

To reiterate,  It doesn't matter how easy or quick he can finish the sub,  when higher level chars can finish the same sub faster.

If your best teams >450 goto scl8
If your best teams are between 400 -450 goto scl7
if your best teams are beween 350-400 goto scl6

The rarity of the char is insignificant when compared to how high he as been leveled

Lucifier

Phumade said:

which is true, but prizes are not award based on how easy he beats the node.  They are decided on how fast the other guys can clear that exact same node.

if your best teams are beween 350-400 goto scl6

1- my best char is level 174 plying at CL7 (does that mean i should go to CL5 or lower)??!!!!!
2-CL6 only one player TOP1 can get 4* cover (and only from placement), while CL7 everyone can get 4* cover from progression, so the chances of getting 4* cover is much higher in CL7 than CL6, beside it gives more cp (only talking from progression reward).

Phumade said:
thoress at 326 casts red for 13k+ 2.3k per charged.
quake at 308 casts green for 12k
PX at 315 does 12K for a match 5

***  if your best teams are beween 350-400 goto scl6   ????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   ***

i just checked in CL7, only 2 char in one node their health about 14k (i think the rest are blow 10k and lower and lower), by the time you collect necessary colors for, to use this ability their health will be much less, 13K + 2.3K per charged is too much.

that has been said, and according to your numbers, a lvl326 is more than enough for CL7 for the hardest char (for one use to kill), then why go to CL6?????!!!!!!

Phumade said:
If your really arguing that Level 400+ rosters (regardless of rarity) should be competing in scl7 or higher, then the vast majority of players would absolutely agree with you.

i did not say higher than CL7, i said i understand why go to CL7, but do not understand why go to CL6 (i don't think if he finish in top2 or lower will get better rewards than finishing top 20-50 in CL7).

Phumade said:
which is true, but prizes are not award based on how easy he beats the node.  They are decided on how fast the other guys can clear that exact same node.

I agree with you, but if i (with highest lvl 174 3* char) can get top 50 in CL7 (or top 20), then diffiently he can get top50 in CL7, if not top 20 and easily.

check these two points below, it will answer my point:

1- do you believe or not player with 5* level 355 (which means he also have other char 4* champed doesn't matter how much or how high in level),  can get top 50 in CL7 or top 20 in CL7? and does not take much effort to do it?

2- beside top1 in CL6, do you think the overall rewards in CL6 is better than the reward in CL7 top50 or top20 (put in mind in CL6 you will not even get one 4* cover)????

in my opinion:

1- yes

2- No

which lead me into not understanding why go to CL6 (unless there is something about daily reward in CL6 for top5, that i can not check to compare with daily reward in top50 or top20 in CL7).

Blindman13

Phumade said:

If your best teams >450 goto scl8
If your best teams are between 400 -450 goto scl7
if your best teams are beween 350-400 goto scl6

Where are you getting these numbers????

My top level is a 287 Medusa, with with about 35 champed 4*s. In the Sentry Event, after boosts, I have a level 376 Thor, and only 3 others above 350. I have been playing in SCL8 and consistently getting in top 100.  I am happy with these rewards. I do not play on the optimal schedule at all; just getting to 6 clears at some point through the day. If I was playing optimally, I think I would have no problem getting in the top 20.

If SCL8 is only for maxed 5*s how am I doing so well? By your math, I should be in SCL 4 or 5. That would be ridiculous.

Phumade

Lucifier said:

check these two points below, it will answer my point:

1- do you believe or not player with 5* level 355 (which means he also have other char 4* champed doesn't matter how much or how high in level),  can get top 50 in CL7 or top 20 in CL7? and does not take much effort to do it?

2- beside top1 in CL6, do you think the overall rewards in CL6 is better than the reward in CL7 top50 or top20 (put in mind in CL6 you will not even get one 4* cover)????

in my opinion:

1- yes

2- No

which lead me into not understanding why go to CL6 (unless there is something about daily reward in CL6 for top5, that i can not check to compare with daily reward in top50 or top20 in CL7).

Look at your leaderboard,  I don't see any top 10 players in pve scl 7 who aren't boosted to 400 or better.  
If you can show me scl7 leaderboards with rosters that boost to 355 or better, I'll absolutely agree that a 355 player should be in scl7 and he's sandbagging in scl6.

Lets just plainly say.  Your a 355 5* player that maxes between T10-T20 in scl 7.  Or you can be a T5 player in scl6.

WHY ARE YOU SURPRISED he dropped to scl6?  All the leaderboards in all the shards all say the same thing.

You want to be boosted over 400 regardless of your tier if you want to be a T10 competitive player.  

I.E a level 355 5* player doesn't have the ability to compete against a level 400 roster for T10 spots..

Restated in zero sum terms.

He think he can take T1 pve scl6.  He knows will not take T5 in scl7.  ergo he goes to scl 6.


you keep referring back to reward levels.  let me simplify this:

I know I can't make T10 in scl7 no matter how much I boost, or how intelligently I play.
I know I can make T5 in scl6 with 80% of that effort.

WHY ARE YOU SURPRISED HE WENT TO SCL6?

Phumade

Blindman13 said:

Phumade said:

If your best teams >450 goto scl8
If your best teams are between 400 -450 goto scl7
if your best teams are beween 350-400 goto scl6

Where are you getting these numbers????

My top level is a 287 Medusa, with with about 35 champed 4*s. In the Sentry Event, after boosts, I have a level 376 Thor, and only 3 others above 350. I have been playing in SCL8 and consistently getting in top 100.  I am happy with these rewards. I do not play on the optimal schedule at all; just getting to 6 clears at some point through the day. If I was playing optimally, I think I would have no problem getting in the top 20.

If SCL8 is only for maxed 5*s how am I doing so well? By your math, I should be in SCL 4 or 5. That would be ridiculous.

Perfect example.

your roster boosts to 376 for this event and you expect to finish around T100 in scl8 with casual-comp play

according to my chart

if you play scl6 with the exact same effort, you will be T10 competitive, (certainly you'll have a higher rank than if you had stayed in scl8.)  (We need to see actual lbs to prove that) 

Its Your choice.  T100 in scl8 or T10 in scl6.

Lucifier

Blindman13

i doubt someone only clear nodes 6 times (not 7 times) and not in strategic timing will end up in T10 in CL6

and even if end up in TOP 10 in CL6, in CL8 (not even talking about CL7) can get 4* cover, while T10 in CL6 can not

beyonderbub

I prefer rewards from SCL 8 but if I'm tied up with real life in the next 4 days and can only PVE for 30 min/day, I'll definitely drop to SCL 6 to get full progression x 1.3 scores to help alliance. As a transitioning 5* player, all covers (1*-4*) count towards progress: ISO or champ levels. The deciding factor is time. Placement is a bonus and playing this way lands me in top 10 with minimal effort for regular 3-4 day events. New releases and 7day events, I'll go SCL8 if my schedule allows it.

Lucifier

with player level 355 5*, the effort for them in CL7 is not more than CL6 (true for CL8 there is a jump)

FokaiHI

Lol. How is this thread still going?

aa25

Lucifier said:

Blindman13

i doubt someone only clear nodes 6 times (not 7 times) and not in strategic timing will end up in T10 in CL6

and even if end up in TOP 10 in CL6, in CL8 (not even talking about CL7) can get 4* cover, while T10 in CL6 can not

There are more than just a 4* cover in rewards. For developing 4* roster, the most valuable resource is actually ISO and maybe CP. I can see people drop to lower SCL for better placement for just better ISO. I don't have a table of sub placement rewards at hand but I can imagine getting placed high in SCL 6 yields far more ISO/HP/CP than ranking T100 in SCL 7 or 8 which is more important than a 4* cover.

Edit: Typo. I referred to 3*-4* transitioner earlier, but I actually wanted to say developing 4* roster.

Phumade

Lucifier said:

with player level 355 5*, the effort for them in CL7 is not more than CL6 (true for CL8 there is a jump)

Why does effort even matter?

The results speak for them selves!!!!!

If you can show that 355 5* players are dominating scl7,  I'll fully agree that they sandbagging in scl6.

and until you can show a way for 355 5* to compete in scl7 against a level 400 4*,  355 rosters of all shapes and sizes will play down to scl6 with the hope they can take t5.

beyonderbub

Lucifier said:

with player level 355 5*, the effort for them in CL7 is not more than CL6 (true for CL8 there is a jump)

I use lvl 450+ 5Strange and 2 champed and boosted 4*s. CL 7 takes me 40-50 minutes to clear optimally; CL 6 takes me 20-30 minutes to clear the same amount. If I had lvl 450+ 5Thanos as well, those times would be cut in half.

Blindman13

Phumade said:

your roster boosts to 376 for this event and you expect to finish around T100 in scl8 with casual-comp play

according to my chart

if you play scl6 with the exact same effort, you will be T10 competitive, (certainly you'll have a higher rank than if you had stayed in scl8.)  (We need to see actual lbs to prove that) 

Its Your choice.  T100 in scl8 or T10 in scl6.

I agree that it is my choice, but I disagree that I could be T10 in a lower SCL. As long as I play casual, there will always be many people finishing more optimally than me, and getting higher finishes.
I've dropped to SCL7 playing roughly the same style. It still resulted in me getting top 100. Maybe in SCL 6 I could crack the T50, but not T10

So it's my choice, play at the highest level for the best rewards, or drop down for a higher placement, but less rewards. Why drop down for less rewards? Maybe like @beyonderbub someone wants to take a vacation from the more difficult fights, but I still don;t even see the benefit there. There is enough difference in both progression and placement awards between SCLs that I think it's always best to go for the highest you can do. This is why I am looking forward to the day they open up SCL 9 and 10.

Phumade

Blindman13 said:

Phumade said:

your roster boosts to 376 for this event and you expect to finish around T100 in scl8 with casual-comp play

according to my chart

if you play scl6 with the exact same effort, you will be T10 competitive, (certainly you'll have a higher rank than if you had stayed in scl8.)  (We need to see actual lbs to prove that) 

Its Your choice.  T100 in scl8 or T10 in scl6.

I agree that it is my choice, but I disagree that I could be T10 in a lower SCL. As long as I play casual, there will always be many people finishing more optimally than me, and getting higher finishes.
I've dropped to SCL7 playing roughly the same style. It still resulted in me getting top 100. Maybe in SCL 6 I could crack the T50, but not T10

So it's my choice, play at the highest level for the best rewards, or drop down for a higher placement, but less rewards. Why drop down for less rewards? Maybe like @beyonderbub someone wants to take a vacation from the more difficult fights, but I still don;t even see the benefit there. There is enough difference in both progression and placement awards between SCLs that I think it's always best to go for the highest you can do. This is why I am looking forward to the day they open up SCL 9 and 10.

Try and find out.  Give an honest effort in scl 8 and scl 6.  I think you will find that scl6 is far easier and your achieving far higher placements for similar amounts of effort and attention.  At the min, I would be flabbergasted if you told me scl6 was harder than scl8.

You can make your own decision about the trade offs involved.  

But can you now at least concede, "its a perfectly normal and rational expectation to play in a lower scl if they think they can outperform the players in that bracket."

Blindman13

Phumade said:

But can you now at least concede, "its a perfectly normal and rational expectation to play in a lower scl if they think they can outperform the players in that bracket."

Yes, you can drop to a lower SCL if you think you can out perform players in that bracket. My question is why would you want to? I don't have all the numbers in front of me, but a T10 finish in SCL8 gives the same tokens and HP, and more ISO than a T5 place finish in SCL7. Even 1st place only gets you one more 4* cover, but still less ISO. (only SCL 7 & 8 are in the OP). I'm sure top placement in SCL6 earns you even less. 
I can walk onto an elementary school playground and be the king of any game they are playing, but why? I would rather compete against others at my level, and earn the better rewards for my effort.
If the same amount of effort will get you 1st place in SCL6 or T50 in SCL8, then you should be in SCL8 for the better rewards.