*** Storm (Mohawk) ***

Phaserhawk

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Storm is the ultimate niche character. All of her skills are pretty good, so optimal can be pretty relative based on the situation.

If I were to use her with mMags + Mystique, I'd want 5/5/3 hands down, the board is constantly resetting so Hailstorm is useless. Using her with decent greens or for minimal board destruction, I'd definitely want 3/5/5.

I think most utility comes from 5/5/3, but I don't think there's a wrong answer for this one. How you use her defines her.

I've had her built 5/5/3 then 3/5/5, then 5/3/5 and I'm back to 5/5/3 why? because it fits my style the best, I like her better as a board clearer/cascade generator than a damage dealer. With the Hood nerf and the rise of 4hor, 5 green is the best way to mass generate AP so IMO there are only 2 builds for her now 5/3/5 and 5/5/3.

5/3/5 focuses more on damage and 5/5/3 is more about support/cascade. The cascade potential goes from 52% to 61% on the upgrade but obviously damage goes down. Due to who I run her with Hailstorm is more of a happenstance when I get it I usually cast it to get those last few remaing hit points.

She's fun to play with Black Panther, since he tanks yellow, I grab that into an early Mistresss to generate the TU to double up on Battleplan the next go around and with her it's pretty easy to reset the board, and I want Rage of the Panther over Hailstorm.

In current meta I think a majority will be best served with her as either 5/3/5 or 5/5/3 depending on current lineup. BTW if you have Daken as a primary, 5/3/5 is awesome.

Unknown

She had more health?

I feel like i would because she has great board shake, hailstorm super annoying, and all powers pretty low ap.

Comments are appreciated and please don't move this to the 3* Mohawk storm (gold) topic because not many people look at them.

dkffiv

She has a ton of problems.

-Her HP sucks
-Her green is decent but very expensive on a very good color. Would you rather spend 10 AP to get 14 AP (with a high chance of some of that being TU AP) or spend it on Xforce, Punisher, Thor, Patch, or even Human Torch. There are a lot of good green users so I find it a little hard to justify bringing her as the lone green user. If the color was purple or blue it would be a lot more useful.
-Her yellow is terrible. It does next to no damage (1540 max damage at 5 covers) and TU AP sucks. For AI they'll get off 1 weak ability and for players you're forced to either beg for TU's or ration them (at least before it was 100% drop rate). Especially bad in her tournament because most of the time you'll end up with Storm TU's if any at all drop after battle. I would much rather her convert TU tiles (I'd use Doctor Doom's Blue cover progression) to green. Then you could at least combo into AP generation and fuel the rest of your team.
-Her black is decent but is now quickly outclassed by other attack tile generators like Blade or the revamped/now playable Dr. Doom. Design wise its anti-synergistic with her green. Could use a slight buff in damage.

Unknown

I think of her as bottom two 3*s. There's nothing she does well that somebody else doesn't do better, except maybe spam up the board with tiles. I only use her when she's required, and only reluctantly then - even though mine is 166, I was still using the loaner frequently in my final push in her PVP. She's terrible, she shares all colors with X-Force, she's incredibly fragile, and she needs to be completely redesigned, maybe with a passive like Hawkeye's Avoid used to be to keep her from dying immediately all the time.

NorthernPolarity

Ben Grimm wrote:

I think of her as bottom two 3*s. There's nothing she does well that somebody else doesn't do better, except maybe spam up the board with tiles. I only use her when she's required, and only reluctantly then - even though mine is 166, I was still using the loaner frequently in my final push in her PVP. She's terrible, she shares all colors with X-Force, she's incredibly fragile, and she needs to be completely redesigned, maybe with a passive like Hawkeye's Avoid used to be to keep her from dying immediately all the time.

Lumping mohawk in the same category as beast and doc ock is just straight up ridiculous. All three of her abilities were decent on defense in PvP during her featured tournament: yellow / green has the comeback factor of causing AI cascades, and there were plenty of times where a resolved hailstorm dealt 5-6k damage to my team, compared to the almost no damage that Spiderman, beast, or doc ock have dealt me in the entire time I've played them. Yes, shes bad in PvP, but she has a much stronger role in PvE. In fact, she's probably the second best support character for LadyThor in PvE after X-Force: resolving a mohawk yellow or green after a surge typically nets you or leads to the netting of an insane amount of AP.

We all get that you guys think that if they aren't X-Force / LadyThor tier, they're trash. But to go to the lengths that you two are going is just absurd. Here is a list of characters that I would rather have Storm over in PvE: Beast, Doc Ock, Spidey, Ragnarok, Squirrel Girl, Gamora, DareDevil, Psylocke, Colossus, Sentry. This places Mohawk in at least solidly mid-tier in PvE, which is a lot better than you can say for actual trash characters like Beast.

simonsez

Mattfal wrote:

She had more health?

I feel like i would because she has great board shake, hailstorm super annoying, and all powers pretty low ap.

Comments are appreciated and please don't move this to the 3* Mohawk storm (gold) topic because not many people look at them.

Only if Xf is dead and I have no health packs.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

We all get that you guys think that if they aren't X-Force / LadyThor tier, they're trash. But to go to the lengths that you two are going is just absurd. Here is a list of characters that I would rather have Storm over in PvE: Beast, Doc Ock, Spidey, Ragnarok, Squirrel Girl, Gamora, DareDevil, Psylocke, Colossus, Sentry. This places Mohawk in at least solidly mid-tier in PvE, which is a lot better than you can say for actual trash characters like Beast.

I use Doc Ock, Spidey, Ragnarok, Gamora, Daredevil, Psylocke, Colossus and Sentry in PVE sometimes. Spidey's the only one I"ll argue is even possibly worse than Storm of that lot. Doc Ock is actually pretty good combined with Falcon and Daken against goons; I alternate using him and Blade in that combo because they both create powerful attack tiles. Definitely better than Storm. Ragnarok, Gamora, and Psylocke all have good quick, low AP attacks. I'll use them frequently when I need to make quick attacks against low HP villains. Spidey's protect tiles and webs are handy in long, slow matches. Colossus is great at protecting people and has a good red attack. Sentry still is usable against the high-HP Gauntlet nodes; he's not overpowered any more but he has his uses. Daredevil is actually good now; his blue and red are both very good powers. I use him almost as much as Captain America in PVE.

My complaint isn't that Storm isn't X-Force/4or; it's that her low-2*-HP, combined with tanking green, means she dies immediately every. damn. match. Her one use is spamming up the board, and I'd rather use those black AP for X-Force or Black Panther. I see nothing that she does well enough to justify using her.

I"ll grant that she's probably better than Beast. Squirrel Girl's too new for me to have a sense of what she's actually like.

Unknown

Lightning Strike is quite good but as long as X Force is around it you'd never use it. Even without X Force, Lightning Strike requires you to have a lot of good abilities in every color to make good use of it which isn't exactly easy in PvP. She's also collatoral damage from The Hood for sharing the same HP class and being susceptible to the same instant kill stuff (mostly from X Force) despite being nowhere close to The Hood's power.

Unknown

The problem Storm has isn't so much that she's the worst person in every given situation, it's that there aren't any situations where there aren't at least five or ten people who are better to have.

dkffiv

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

I think of her as bottom two 3*s. There's nothing she does well that somebody else doesn't do better, except maybe spam up the board with tiles. I only use her when she's required, and only reluctantly then - even though mine is 166, I was still using the loaner frequently in my final push in her PVP. She's terrible, she shares all colors with X-Force, she's incredibly fragile, and she needs to be completely redesigned, maybe with a passive like Hawkeye's Avoid used to be to keep her from dying immediately all the time.

We all get that you guys think that if they aren't X-Force / LadyThor tier, they're trash. But to go to the lengths that you two are going is just absurd. Here is a list of characters that I would rather have Storm over in PvE: Beast, Doc Ock, Spidey, Ragnarok, Squirrel Girl, Gamora, DareDevil, Psylocke, Colossus, Sentry. This places Mohawk in at least solidly mid-tier in PvE, which is a lot better than you can say for actual trash characters like Beast.

Doc Oc is decent with Falcon, Spidey is great against Moonstone (used him a lot that PvE ago when he was featured but Cage pretty much does everything he does but better), Rag will probably be decent once he gets his third shortly, I don't have a maxed SG but I could see her being better than Storm, Gamora I don't have a maxed one but she seems like a decent b-team candidate, I'd take DD's stun over Storm's kit any day, I use Psylocke on my b-team a lot, Sentry I would consider using for his yellow if I didn't care about the health of the remaining 2 members (in the event I also need to use his other abilities). Colossus isn't so great unless you build a team around him (I could see CapAm or Nick Fury doing well with him. Just need some type of green outlet) and everyone acknowledges that Beast is terrible.

I think Storm, Spidey, Beast, Rag, and Doc Oc are most in need of kit adjustments. She-Hulk could use a QoL adjustment on her blue and Hulk an adjustment on his red, Marvel could use a slight tweak on her red. Psylocke needs a rework on her blue and some number tweaks on red and black (would love to see red changed to purple).

Unknown

Mattfal wrote:

She had more health?

I feel like i would because she has great board shake, hailstorm super annoying, and all powers pretty low ap.

Comments are appreciated and please don't move this to the 3* Mohawk storm (gold) topic because not many people look at them.

I agree M-Storm has some pretty decent abilities, but her health is a joke.

During the Cat-5 PvP I had a 249 5/3/5 mstorm, 166 5/5/3 dp, and 166 5/5/3 hood. Pool's black ability actually made this a viable team despite all having low health.

I always try to use Storm's yellow before her green to hit more color AP. Coupled with DP's cheap red slice and dice and Hood's AP steal, I scored 1,000+ on this PvP without much ado.

I actually won a decent number of battles on the defensive end too.

Unknown

Her yellow need serious redo, after team up changes she didn't get proper replacement. I like idea of tiles generating . That's what the 1* storm was known for, vacoomming on desert chaining into Lightning Storm and repeat in loop, won't happen now since Mistress went from 5 -> 9 but at least some of it strength would remain. Right now, compare it to Magneto Polarizing force which isn't even power you race to, gaining some TA just isn't worth loosing that much damage (unless you have endless streams of overpowered ones somehow).

It's not that Storm abilities are bad. But at her HP level, you expect unfairness like Hoods blue or Torch Red, and she is just... decent at best. So yeah, more health would make her kit more balanced to what it is, or leave the HP and fix toolkit so she can compare to other glass cannons.

john1620b

What about replacing her yellow with a slightly more powerful version of 2* Storm's yellow? Think that would make her viable? She'd be more interesting, at least.

dkffiv

At Max Level: HP: 5100 Tile damage: 70/12/11/13/79/61/3.5

Lightning Strike - Green 10 AP
Storm calls a blinding bolt of electricity from the heavens, shattering 8 tiles, doing damage and earning AP for each.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Shatters 9 tiles. Level 3: Shatters 10 tiles. Level 4: Shatters 12 tiles. Level 5: Shatters 14 tiles.

Mistress of the Elements - Yellow 9 AP
Clouds darken the battlefield and lightning streaks across the sky as Storm's awesome power inspires her teammates and assaults her foes. Transforms 6 Team-Up tiles to Green tiles.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Transforms 7 tiles. Level 3: Transforms 8 tiles. Level 4: Transforms 9 tiles. Level 5: Transforms all Team-Up tiles.

Eye of the Storm - Black 9 AP
Ororo glares and dark clouds coalesce. Hailstones pelt the enemy, converting 16 basic tiles to Attack tiles. PASSIVE: At the beginning of each turn, Attack tiles on the outer ring are improved by 10.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Converts 20 tiles. Level 3: Converts 20 tiles. Level 4: Converts 25 tiles. At the beginning of each turn, Attack tiles are improved by 15. Level 5: Converts 32 tiles. The area of the storm grows to 2 from the edge.

Max Level: Makes 32 strength 39 Attack tiles. Improves Attack tiles by up to 280/420/720 at the beginning of each turn

The black improvement amount is at level 166 since I didn't want to try and calculate what it would be at 40. For ranks 1-4 its the outer border (28 tiles total). At rank 5 it improves to 2 from the edge making it up to 48 tiles (all but the inner 4x4). If she is not dealt with quickly once black goes off the storm will quickly grow out of control which I think would help justify her low hp and help her thematically. I think Doctor Doom is bugged where his passive goes off even when he's stunned, I would hope they would fix that so stunning Storm is a viable option if you can't kill her outright.

Unknown

Yes.

I already use her in pve to block countdowns from spawning and killing fools with blade+her black, sometimes. She's not great but she's no beast/doc ock.

Gowaderacer

I would use her if they just brought back envro tiles the way they used to be. She got nerfed to oblivion when TU tiles became a thing.

Unknown

If Kishus are more common, Storm would be pretty awesome.

NorthernPolarity

dkffiv wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

I think of her as bottom two 3*s. There's nothing she does well that somebody else doesn't do better, except maybe spam up the board with tiles. I only use her when she's required, and only reluctantly then - even though mine is 166, I was still using the loaner frequently in my final push in her PVP. She's terrible, she shares all colors with X-Force, she's incredibly fragile, and she needs to be completely redesigned, maybe with a passive like Hawkeye's Avoid used to be to keep her from dying immediately all the time.

We all get that you guys think that if they aren't X-Force / LadyThor tier, they're trash. But to go to the lengths that you two are going is just absurd. Here is a list of characters that I would rather have Storm over in PvE: Beast, Doc Ock, Spidey, Ragnarok, Squirrel Girl, Gamora, DareDevil, Psylocke, Colossus, Sentry. This places Mohawk in at least solidly mid-tier in PvE, which is a lot better than you can say for actual trash characters like Beast.

Doc Oc is decent with Falcon, Spidey is great against Moonstone (used him a lot that PvE ago when he was featured but Cage pretty much does everything he does but better), Rag will probably be decent once he gets his third shortly, I don't have a maxed SG but I could see her being better than Storm, Gamora I don't have a maxed one but she seems like a decent b-team candidate, I'd take DD's stun over Storm's kit any day, I use Psylocke on my b-team a lot, Sentry I would consider using for his yellow if I didn't care about the health of the remaining 2 members (in the event I also need to use his other abilities). Colossus isn't so great unless you build a team around him (I could see CapAm or Nick Fury doing well with him. Just need some type of green outlet) and everyone acknowledges that Beast is terrible.

I think Storm, Spidey, Beast, Rag, and Doc Oc are most in need of kit adjustments. She-Hulk could use a QoL adjustment on her blue and Hulk an adjustment on his red, Marvel could use a slight tweak on her red. Psylocke needs a rework on her blue and some number tweaks on red and black (would love to see red changed to purple).

I think you're seriously grasping at straws if you think that Psylocke is more powerful than Storm in situations that actually matter. All Psylocke is good for is seed killing and a quick attack tile if you even have room on your team for that. Storm actually supports the dominant character in this metagame (LadyThor) extremely well in PvE. Bring a LadyThor / Storm / Loki team in against a 395 node in PvP. Storm probably ends up taking a third of her health in match damage, but mistress / lightning storm probably ends up accelerating LadyThor greatly and helping a ton at winning you the game. Bring Psylocke along in a node like that, she'll deal 2k damage to a 16k HP Juggernaut, and fall over and die.

Yes, the HP is clearly a weakness in Storm, but the AP generation on her abilities makes her far more useful in situations that actually matter (not stomping level 30 seed teams) than the characters that I've listed above.

Kolence

I use her a lot in PvE already, but more health would be welcome.
A few mentioned the old environments and Storm combos. Maybe a tweak like this would work?

Mistress of the Elements - Yellow 9 AP
Clouds darken the battlefield and lightning streaks across the sky as Storm's awesome power inspires her teammates and assaults her foes. Destroys up to 5 Team-Up tiles, generating Team-Up AP and dealing 38 damage per tile. If the team has 14 or more Team-Up AP, converts 2 basic tiles to Green and spends 10 Team-Up AP.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Deals 46 damage for each tile shattered.

Converts 3 tiles.
Level 3: Deals 53 damage for each tile shattered. Converts 4 tiles.
Level 4: Deals 68 damage for each tile shattered. Converts 5 tiles.
Level 5: Destroys 7 Team-Up tiles

dkffiv

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I think you're seriously grasping at straws if you think that Psylocke is more powerful than Storm in situations that actually matter. All Psylocke is good for is seed killing and a quick attack tile if you even have room on your team for that. Storm actually supports the dominant character in this metagame (LadyThor) extremely well in PvE. Bring a LadyThor / Storm / Loki team in against a 395 node in PvP. Storm probably ends up taking a third of her health in match damage, but mistress / lightning storm probably ends up accelerating LadyThor greatly and helping a ton at winning you the game. Bring Psylocke along in a node like that, she'll deal 2k damage to a 16k HP Juggernaut, and fall over and die.

Yes, the HP is clearly a weakness in Storm, but the AP generation on her abilities makes her far more useful in situations that actually matter (not stomping level 30 seed teams) than the characters that I've listed above.

I wouldn't use either of them in situations that mattered but I would use Psylocke against 160-200 nodes to save the health of my better characters for harder nodes. Psylocke LThor Daken is a pretty decent combo against nodes where I can't use Wolverine. Storm doesn't synergize well with characters that support her colors because green performs poorly with CD + special tiles. BP compliments her colors but green has a high chance of messing with yellow and blue. CapAm can be decent but you have to time green around shield returns (and I would normally save CapAm for my A-team). I've tried Magneto and it didn't work well, they're too slow and the damage is too low. Punisher, Patch, Thor, why would I use her green over theirs in most situations? I suppose She-Hulk, Groot or Deadpool could work but the color coverage is pretty poor and you would need a good third. The only real top tier choice I can see is Dr. Doom (looking for a good red + yellow user for the third slot).

The problem is her yellow is bad and her black is only decent.