*** Storm (Mohawk) ***

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I think you're seriously grasping at straws if you think that Psylocke is more powerful than Storm in situations that actually matter. All Psylocke is good for is seed killing and a quick attack tile if you even have room on your team for that. Storm actually supports the dominant character in this metagame (LadyThor) extremely well in PvE. Bring a LadyThor / Storm / Loki team in against a 395 node in PvP. Storm probably ends up taking a third of her health in match damage, but mistress / lightning storm probably ends up accelerating LadyThor greatly and helping a ton at winning you the game. Bring Psylocke along in a node like that, she'll deal 2k damage to a 16k HP Juggernaut, and fall over and die.

Yes, the HP is clearly a weakness in Storm, but the AP generation on her abilities makes her far more useful in situations that actually matter (not stomping level 30 seed teams) than the characters that I've listed above.

Bringing up 4or is white noise to me; I don't have a usable one, so synergy with her is meaningless to me. If that's the basis of your defending her, fine; but, for me, I'd still pick Psylocke over Storm 9 out of ten times, maybe 99 out of 100. Psylocke has a good black, that's both a quick strike and a wear-down power, she's got a pretty good red, and an inconsistent blue that has actually won me a match a couple of times. Without 4or, do you ever use Storm?

In situations that actually matter, I wouldn't want to use either one, but, if forced, there is no question that I'd prefer Psylocke. She might actually survive the battle.

NorthernPolarity

Maybe that's the difference then? She is by far the second best support for 4or, and given how 4or defines the current metagame, she's an A lister in PvE. Just ran the second level of the Gauntlet, and every time X-Force was locked out, I would sub in Mohawk and run Mohawk / GT / (Loki or Hood). She did her usual work of accelerating ridiculous amounts of AP after a surge, and I ended up getting second place in it because of it. I doubt any other single character would have been as good as Mohawk when it came to that situation (speedrunning 250+ nodes).

Unknown

I think Storm is valuable for quick wins in PVE.

But she's one of the most worthless PVP characters in the game. Especially with so much board shake in the game that can easily clear out her black.

Her yellow is terrible and her green is outclassed.

Her speed in PVE makes her better than one of the worst characters in the 3 star range, but I would never personally invest ISO in her.

List of characters that are worse than her:
She Hulk. Red is strong. Green and Blue are terrible.
Colossus. Terrible costs. Clunky abilities. Counter intuitive skills.
Beast. Just all around terrible. Blue and Yellow are dead abilities and Green is only half decent if you already cast his terrible blue.
Doc Oc. Serves essentially no purpose. Yes, he's half decent at eliminating strike tiles, I guess, but his Green is insanely overpriced, his blue is overpriced and his black doesn't offer all that much impact.
Squirrel Girl. Yellow is terrible. Purple is okay but conditional. Green is outclassed, worthless and slow.

So, not in the bottom 5. But awful close.

Unknown

I don't get what's this obsession with Storm being a good support character. If you're really that obsessed about collecting charged tile you just bring X Force with Surgical Strike to collect some hilarious amount of AP (and if Surgical is on black/green that's usually even better anyway). If you can't use X Force, Thor isn't even that good against high level PvE opponent because she sure isn't going to be downing the first person by herself. Storm isn't going to do that either so that's 2 out of 3 guys not doing anything. She's not as bad as people claims but she's definitely not very good either. Like Psylocke the limit of her contribution is not to get in the way of someone else if you're forced to use her, and Psylocke can at least sort of tank when you have to use her.

dkffiv

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Maybe that's the difference then? She is by far the second best support for 4or, and given how 4or defines the current metagame, she's an A lister in PvE. Just ran the second level of the Gauntlet, and every time X-Force was locked out, I would sub in Mohawk and run Mohawk / GT / (Loki or Hood). She did her usual work of accelerating ridiculous amounts of AP after a surge, and I ended up getting second place in it because of it. I doubt any other single character would have been as good as Mohawk when it came to that situation (speedrunning 250+ nodes).

Is that with ISO boosts? Without boost she's relatively slow and if she doesn't have someone to hide behind there's a decent chance she'll die before she gets rolling. I came up with a Magneto Storm Falcon team and it failed miserably because it took way too long to get off the ground and even when it was rolling, the damage wasn't very good.

Would you be just as well off if you brought a team up of her green and a third more useful character?

NorthernPolarity

Phantron wrote:

I don't get what's this obsession with Storm being a good support character. If you're really that obsessed about collecting charged tile you just bring X Force with Surgical Strike to collect some hilarious amount of AP (and if Surgical is on black/green that's usually even better anyway). If you can't use X Force, Thor isn't even that good against high level PvE opponent because she sure isn't going to be downing the first person by herself. Storm isn't going to do that either so that's 2 out of 3 guys not doing anything. She's not as bad as people claims but she's definitely not very good either. Like Psylocke the limit of her contribution is not to get in the way of someone else if you're forced to use her, and Psylocke can at least sort of tank when you have to use her.

Um, what? Have you even tried mohawk / thoress in PvE? Surge -> Smite the first guy -> Lightning Storm either nets you enough AP to do another surge or smite, or it gives you the yellow to do mistress, which leads to charge tiles, which leads to more matches and lets you either stun or kill the second guy. The whole point is that ladythor does so much damage by herself that all you need to do is keep the board filled with blue / red, which Storm does magnificently. This is much faster than any alternative for a node with Wolvie (except Whales, I guess?). And yes, X-Force is better like I said earlier, but Storm is a fine second-string for scenarios where you need to speed kill like the gauntlet today.

dkffiv wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Maybe that's the difference then? She is by far the second best support for 4or, and given how 4or defines the current metagame, she's an A lister in PvE. Just ran the second level of the Gauntlet, and every time X-Force was locked out, I would sub in Mohawk and run Mohawk / GT / (Loki or Hood). She did her usual work of accelerating ridiculous amounts of AP after a surge, and I ended up getting second place in it because of it. I doubt any other single character would have been as good as Mohawk when it came to that situation (speedrunning 250+ nodes).

Is that with ISO boosts? Without boost she's relatively slow and if she doesn't have someone to hide behind there's a decent chance she'll die before she gets rolling. I came up with a Magneto Storm Falcon team and it failed miserably because it took way too long to get off the ground and even when it was rolling, the damage wasn't very good.

Would you be just as well off if you brought a team up of her green and a third more useful character?

It was with ISO boosts since I had to speed clear the subs. The problem with Mags / Storm / Falcon is that none of those characters do enough damage to carry the team by themselves: the main reason why Storm is so good with LadyThor is because surge / smite singlehandedly does enough damage to win you the game: if the game becomes a matter of gathering just red / blue AP for those abilities, then Storm works well. I... don't understand the TU argument at all. Sometimes you get a ton of yellow and just need to chain mistresses, and couldn't you say the same about anyone? "Who needs Deadpool, just bring a whales TU".
Looking at the entire roster, there isn't a single character that I would bring with a better green for LadyThor than Storm (except XF, but when XF is locked...)

PuceMoose

I never liked her much until the survival nodes showed up - then her board clogging skills became quite handy. There's no other character than can clog up tiles so quickly or cheaply, and she earned a bit of respect from me for that. Spiderman/MoHawk/Falcon carried me through survival nodes with passive power, and it was fun to see 1000+ strength protect tiles and 2000+ a turn (total) attack tiles doing their thing. Slow, sure, but it's PvE.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Um, what? Have you even tried mohawk / thoress in PvE? Surge -> Smite the first guy -> Lightning Storm either nets you enough AP to do another surge or smite, or it gives you the yellow to do mistress, which leads to charge tiles, which leads to more matches and lets you either stun or kill the second guy. The whole point is that ladythor does so much damage by herself that all you need to do is keep the board filled with blue / red, which Storm does magnificently. This is much faster than any alternative for a node with Wolvie (except Whales, I guess?). And yes, X-Force is better like I said earlier, but Storm is a fine second-string for scenarios where you need to speed kill like the gauntlet today.

In what world is 2 4-match move + 1 3 match move 'fast'? Are you just boosting every fight and only remember your best games? I remember you said Fury is too slow in PvP because he needs 4 matches for his moves, but somehow in PvE you always have a 4/4/3 match move ready? Are you supposed to be the world's leading expert on Gauntlet/Simulator Basic on how to fight all 3 nodes that features Wolverine? For the amount of AP you claim to have you'd absolutely run over anything with X Force alone let alone X Force + Thor, and since you obviously have X Force that can only mean you spend all your time honing your skills while fighting against Wolverine as that's the only scenario you can't have X Force.

Unknown

I only have 6 xforce covers and 2 4thor covers. Also only have 6 black panther covers and 5 lthor covers. That eliminates a lot of powers that would normally be used over mostorm right off the bat.

ronin_san

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

I think of her as bottom two 3*s. There's nothing she does well that somebody else doesn't do better, except maybe spam up the board with tiles. I only use her when she's required, and only reluctantly then - even though mine is 166, I was still using the loaner frequently in my final push in her PVP. She's terrible, she shares all colors with X-Force, she's incredibly fragile, and she needs to be completely redesigned, maybe with a passive like Hawkeye's Avoid used to be to keep her from dying immediately all the time.

Lumping mohawk in the same category as beast and doc ock is just straight up ridiculous. All three of her abilities were decent on defense in PvP during her featured tournament: yellow / green has the comeback factor of causing AI cascades, and there were plenty of times where a resolved hailstorm dealt 5-6k damage to my team, compared to the almost no damage that Spiderman, beast, or doc ock have dealt me in the entire time I've played them. Yes, shes bad in PvP, but she has a much stronger role in PvE. In fact, she's probably the second best support character for LadyThor in PvE after X-Force: resolving a mohawk yellow or green after a surge typically nets you or leads to the netting of an insane amount of AP.

We all get that you guys think that if they aren't X-Force / LadyThor tier, they're trash. But to go to the lengths that you two are going is just absurd. Here is a list of characters that I would rather have Storm over in PvE: Beast, Doc Ock, Spidey, Ragnarok, Squirrel Girl, Gamora, DareDevil, Psylocke, Colossus, Sentry. This places Mohawk in at least solidly mid-tier in PvE, which is a lot better than you can say for actual trash characters like Beast.

You're killing me. She's ****. EVEN when Storm could clear 16 tiles for AP, she wasn't overpowering. And in the current board-clearing Meta, with XFW's clearing tiles ALL-THE-FREAKING-TIME, Mohawk's black is shiiiittty.

It's terribad, man. Oh, sure, you can use it to stop countdowns or strike tiles, but I'd sooner use Doom for that. I'd sooner use Doom to feed XFW black and deny 4hor blue.

If I'm talking team-up clearing, I'd prefer Magneto. If I'm talking AP generation, I'd prefer Hood. IF I wanted a glass cannon with low HP, I'd go Torch or GSBW.

Mohawk Storm is just unbalanced, in a bad way. I understand your preference of her at current, but this is a theoretical discussion. And with Ragnarok getting his third ability soon, I'm sure he'll come back into play. Look what a third ability did for Daken or Doom. Can you imagine how fun Bullseye will be in the first week of April? (guessing; joking. Daredevil premiers on Netflix, yada yada.) What about Beast going all Marshawn **** after his obvious redo?

But I'd rather use Colossus to fling XFW, Groot, Thor. And I'm not relying solely on Mohawk for Green. So her green won't get used.

Unknown

Hailstorm is useless against CDs because unless it covered up every single tile on the board (which requires 2 casting, and that's 18 black and more than enough to win the game with quite a few guys) the CD just created on whatever isn't covered up and there's no guaranteed whether that spot is going to be good or bad for you. It's slightly better for strike/protect tiles but generally those aren't created in such massive numbers that would be affected by Hailstorm coverage. Unless you've a scenario like the opponent has Blade and you're not matching red it wouldn't cover enough, and if you've that scenario you probably should be more worried about matching red than hoping you can cover up enough red tiles. Hailstorm is very good against Caltrops but that's about it, though since Kishus are one of the strongest goon in the game this is not terrible, but only if you're fighting Kishus in the first place.

dkffiv

Phantron wrote:

Hailstorm is useless against CDs because unless it covered up every single tile on the board (which requires 2 casting, and that's 18 black and more than enough to win the game with quite a few guys) the CD just created on whatever isn't covered up and there's no guaranteed whether that spot is going to be good or bad for you. It's slightly better for strike/protect tiles but generally those aren't created in such massive numbers that would be affected by Hailstorm coverage. Unless you've a scenario like the opponent has Blade and you're not matching red it wouldn't cover enough, and if you've that scenario you probably should be more worried about matching red than hoping you can cover up enough red tiles. Hailstorm is very good against Caltrops but that's about it, though since Kishus are one of the strongest goon in the game this is not terrible, but only if you're fighting Kishus in the first place.

Her black is somewhat useful in that if the CD is forced to be placed at the top of the screen it is much more likely to be match-able than if gets buried in a "stale" corner. I used to use OBW 1* Storm (and a dps. Cannot remember which but it was a dps) on goon nodes even when they scaled to 200+.

dkffiv

Mattfal wrote:

I only have 6 xforce covers and 2 4thor covers. Also only have 6 black panther covers and 5 lthor covers. That eliminates a lot of powers that would normally be used over mostorm right off the bat.

Are you saying that you have a covered Storm but not anyone else? If that were the case I would still say don't level Storm because she lacks the punch to carry a team. If she is the highest leveled member of your team she is going to get punched in the face and dropped before she can even do anything. In all but potentially the case where you are pairing her with 4hor, I can't really come up with a scenario where she shines.

Unknown

dkffiv wrote:

Mattfal wrote:

I only have 6 xforce covers and 2 4thor covers. Also only have 6 black panther covers and 5 lthor covers. That eliminates a lot of powers that would normally be used over mostorm right off the bat.

Are you saying that you have a covered Storm but not anyone else? If that were the case I would still say don't level Storm because she lacks the punch to carry a team. If she is the highest leveled member of your team she is going to get punched in the face and dropped before she can even do anything. In all but potentially the case where you are pairing her with 4hor, I can't really come up with a scenario where she shines.

I have other 4 3* max covered or mostly covered (cap, hood, patch, a few others) but other than patch and blade, no green coverage and other than hood, blade, or torch, no black coverage. Have 12 mostorm covers currently

dkffiv

Mattfal wrote:

I have other 4 3* max covered or mostly covered (cap, hood, patch, a few others) but other than patch and blade, no green coverage and other than hood, blade, or torch, no black coverage. Have 12 mostorm covers currently

Patch will serve you much better than Storm

Unknown

dkffiv wrote:

Mattfal wrote:

I have other 4 3* max covered or mostly covered (cap, hood, patch, a few others) but other than patch and blade, no green coverage and other than hood, blade, or torch, no black coverage. Have 12 mostorm covers currently

Patch will serve you much better than Storm

I know, he's lvl 135 now (lvl140 is his max). I was thinking of putting ISO into her as a b team/climbing team (first few hundred points climb) so i can get rid of my dependence of 2* (which help save health packs)

rixmith

More health wouldn't get me to use her more. Mostly I treat MoStorm like a 2*, clearing mid-level nodes in PvE's to prevent damage to my A-team (I only have 1 4-Thor cover, so that's not a consideration). The one place that I seem to differ from general opinion however is that I value her Yellow and keep it at 5. Why? For big Gauntlet nodes where I have a WHALES! or a level 395 Call the Storm TU equipped. With boosts a single yellow match gets me most of the way to a game-over ability.

I did find it interesting during her PvP that she was frequently the character that I wanted to take down first though. Having my opponent get off a Green to charge up another character, or having to take Hailstorm damage every turn were tings I wanted to prevent pretty badly.

I think you could easily make her more relevant by modifying her Green to do X damage per tile destroyed (like Hood's Twin Pistols) instead of just doing tile damage. If her Green could do 3K damage as well as generate AP and cascades, she might be a bit more like a mid-tier character.

Unknown

dkffiv wrote:

Her black is somewhat useful in that if the CD is forced to be placed at the top of the screen it is much more likely to be match-able than if gets buried in a "stale" corner. I used to use OBW 1* Storm (and a dps. Cannot remember which but it was a dps) on goon nodes even when they scaled to 200+.

Yes but one Hailstorm is never enough to cover anywhere near the whole thing so it's just as likely you covered up most of the tiles on the upper half of the board which forces them to place the CD on the bottom. If you can have 2 Hailstorms you can generally force all the CDs to be placed at the top but that's a 18 AP we're talking about too. I don't really think about CDs when I use Storm. You should always use it for the immediate damage and whatever happens to CD is just good/bad luck, unless you can have two Hailstorms, in that case you might have to evaluate the situation.

dkffiv

Slightly off topic but Psylocke Sentry Daken is actually a pretty strong combo that I wouldn't mind using on harder PvE nodes (mainly because they are characters I'd never use in late-push PvP. If Daken ends up dying he's back in 30m anyway).

Once Sentry's yellow is up Psylocke does a ton of damage with red + black (and you switch over to Psylocke's blue to avoid eating it by accident). Before that you can Daken blue into Psy red to replace his **** tiles with better ones. If you somehow end up with green you can world rupture.

dkffiv

*Posting again here in the event the other thread disappears

At Max Level: HP: 5100 Tile damage: 70/12/11/13/79/61/3.5

Lightning Strike - Green 10 AP
Storm calls a blinding bolt of electricity from the heavens, shattering 8 tiles, doing damage and earning AP for each.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Shatters 9 tiles. Level 3: Shatters 10 tiles. Level 4: Shatters 12 tiles. Level 5: Shatters 14 tiles.

Mistress of the Elements - Yellow 9 AP
Clouds darken the battlefield and lightning streaks across the sky as Storm's awesome power inspires her teammates and assaults her foes. Transforms 6 Team-Up tiles to Green tiles.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Transforms 7 tiles. Level 3: Transforms 8 tiles. Level 4: Transforms 9 tiles. Level 5: Transforms all Team-Up tiles.

Eye of the Storm - Black 9 AP
Ororo glares and dark clouds coalesce. Hailstones pelt the enemy, converting 16 basic tiles to Attack tiles. PASSIVE: At the beginning of each turn, Attack tiles on the outer ring are improved by 10.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Converts 20 tiles. Level 3: Converts 20 tiles. Level 4: Converts 25 tiles. At the beginning of each turn, Attack tiles are improved by 15. Level 5: Converts 32 tiles. The area of the storm grows to 2 from the edge.

Max Level: Makes 32 strength 39 Attack tiles. Improves Attack tiles by up to 280/420/720 at the beginning of each turn

The black improvement amount is at level 166 since I didn't want to try and calculate what it would be at 40. For ranks 1-4 its the outer border (28 tiles total). At rank 5 it improves to 2 from the edge making it up to 48 tiles (all but the inner 4x4). If she is not dealt with quickly once black goes off the storm will quickly grow out of control which I think would help justify her low hp and help her thematically. I think Doctor Doom is bugged where his passive goes off even when he's stunned, I would hope they would fix that so stunning Storm is a viable option if you can't kill her outright.