*** Storm (Mohawk) ***

Phaserhawk

LoreNYC wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Lightning Strike generates AP for the tiles destroyed so that's a difference of 4 AP between level 3 and level 5.

Hailstorm isn't going to cover enough of the field to prevent you from charging 12 tiles. Since the tiles it covered is random there's no net effect on moves like Power Surge. It could cover up all your immediate red matches and leave you with nothing to match, or it can cover all the non immediate red matches and make you charge the immediate match 3. More realistically Hailstorm's going to cover some of your available match 3 red/blue/yellow leaving Power Surge to charge some other tiles on your available matches. If you somehow covered way too many tiles to put 12 charged tiles on the board, you can always delay Power Surge a bit since it's usually not something you can use very early to begin with.

Yes, I was speaking only of the cascade. I just don't see Mohawk being that great with 4hor, it just seems like it's making a square peg try to fit into a round hole. You spend time and resources trying to chase green for a random chance when you are better with spending your time going after red and blue. Yes you are averaging 5 more AP per use of lvl 3 vs. lvl 5 but that's in reality .71 of each color/TU. Now, because of this discussion I decided to play her a little and I still with 100% certainity beleive you need black at 5, however I'm not so sold on 5 yellow anymore, I'm toying with 5/3/5 or 4/4/5 as possibly being stronger, pure damage 3/5/5 is the better build, but that's not what Mohawk is about, it's about being a support character by shaking up the board and generating AP or TU. 5 over 7 TU isn't going to make or break the bank but the cascade is nice, however if I am pairing 4hor with Mohawk, I'm going to rather cast Striking Distance over Mistress of the Elements sine 1177 AoE is much better than at best a 1540 single target 7 TU generatring skill. Of any other non-green playable characters.

Fury, BP, Blade (no useable green), Captain America, Daken, Daredevil (sorta of playable now) Deadpool, Falcon, Hood.

The only time you are going to want to use Mohawks yellow over them would be Blade, Cap, Daken, DD, Deadpool, Falcon. I prefere Hood, Fury, and BP's yellow and the others don't have a yellow or with Captain America the yellow is so expensive it's like he has no yellow. so given the pile of characters that her yellow is valuable, I'm not sure it's worth the investment as I once thought it was

3Storm is flat out amazing with fthor at 553. At 535 less so but still could work

It's probably top 3 pve combos as far as complete board control power and speed. You can actually use xf too and just use him for his black and storm for green and situationally yellow

Why would you ever use Storm's yellow over 4hor's?

NorthernPolarity

Because polarizing force to recharge board with red and blue tiles is a lot better than 1k team damage?

vudu3

My Storm is currently 3/5/5 and I'm sitting on two green covers in my queue. I was thinking about respeccing to 5/3/5 because I'm still not quite sold on 5/5/3. I've read what Polarity has to say and while it all makes sense I don't get why you'd **** her black which is hands-down her best skill when not paired with 4* Thor. Going from 5 yellow to 3 yellow will only reduce destroyed TU tiles from 7 to 5--we're not talking about a massive difference in board shake up.

Meanwhile, Polarity's own number crunching shows that Hailstorm (5) isn't going to clog up enough tiles to block Power Surge (5). If anything, it seems to me that if you cast Hailstorm a few turns before you cast Power Surge it's going to push the charge tiles towards the top of the board which will mean it will be easier to match multiples.

Am I overlooking something?

NorthernPolarity

vudu3 wrote:

My Storm is currently 3/5/5 and I'm sitting on two green covers in my queue. I was thinking about respeccing to 5/3/5 because I'm still not quite sold on 5/5/3. I've read what Polarity has to say and while it all makes sense I don't get why you'd **** her black which is hands-down her best skill when not paired with 4* Thor. Going from 5 yellow to 3 yellow will only reduce destroyed TU tiles from 7 to 5--we're not talking about a massive difference in board shake up.

Meanwhile, Polarity's own number crunching shows that Hailstorm (5) isn't going to clog up enough tiles to block Power Surge (5). If anything, it seems to me that if you cast Hailstorm a few turns before you cast Power Surge it's going to push the charge tiles towards the top of the board which will mean it will be easier to match multiples.

Am I overlooking something?

I think it boils down to what sort of character you want storm to be. There are two fundamental things going on here: storms green and yellow is board clearing and wants to be paired with other chars that like destroying the board or generating cascades, such as gsbw and ladythor. Her black is a board clogger, and wants to be paired with other people that dont want to destroy the board, such as daken, falcon, etc.

The main draw for 5/5/3 is just that you dont really prioritize hailstorm in a lot of compositions. Ladythor is gonna be her main partner, and on that team hailstorm is what, the fifth color in line behind blue red green yellow? Hailstorm is better in the general case and in a vacuum, but the teams that i use her on all want the board destruction part of her skillset, so hailstorm is less of a priority.

Unknown

I'm not seeing the big deal about getting an extra 2 tiles with the yellow unless you've a ton of awesome mid range TUs to spend. It doesn't even work if you've a ton of awesome top range TUs to use because it's hard to imagine why you'd use one of those on a fight you're using Storm instead of say, X Force. I still have some level 395 Call the Storms sitting around and I'm sure not going to waste one on a team with Storm.

Phaserhawk

So basically the initial damage from MotE at 5 does what the difference between lvl 3 and lvl5 Hailstorm does after first resolve, and while it can do more damage over time, however due to the sheer number of tiles you will lose more at a higher rate to where whether you started with 32 or 20 you will eventually end up with roughly the same after so many turns and since they do the same dmg I see the benefit of 5/5/3 Mohawk

Quebbster

The niche I can see for a 5/3/5 Mohawk is that of a trap neutralizer as that maximizes both abilities that can remove traps from the board - Mistress of the Elements can only remove traps via cascades (which could be very bad in the case of an Ambush), but Lightning Strike flat out destroys traps and Hailstorm overwrites them. With the ninjas and Elektra in the game, that is a niche that is worth exploring at least.

wymtime

Phaserhawk wrote:

So basically the initial damage from MotE at 5 does what the difference between lvl 3 and lvl5 Hailstorm does after first resolve, and while it can do more damage over time, however due to the sheer number of tiles you will lose more at a higher rate to where whether you started with 32 or 20 you will eventually end up with roughly the same after so many turns and since they do the same dmg I see the benefit of 5/5/3 Mohawk

I ran Storm at 3,5,5 for a while and her yellow did decent damage, but the real deadly force for her is hailstorm. Also I found that I just don't use TU so I was using her Yellow for board shake up and damage. Even at 5 it was just meh. I have switched her to 5,3,5 and in category 5 I am glad I did. If I get 10 green early I have actually used her green to generate more AP and board shake up. I know there are more powerful green's, but it does make other powers go much faster. I have also found hailstorm to be by far her best ability and at level 5 has just chewed through opponents. It also blocks the board from other special abilitites the AI might use.

Phaserhawk

wymtime wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

So basically the initial damage from MotE at 5 does what the difference between lvl 3 and lvl5 Hailstorm does after first resolve, and while it can do more damage over time, however due to the sheer number of tiles you will lose more at a higher rate to where whether you started with 32 or 20 you will eventually end up with roughly the same after so many turns and since they do the same dmg I see the benefit of 5/5/3 Mohawk

I ran Storm at 3,5,5 for a while and her yellow did decent damage, but the real deadly force for her is hailstorm. Also I found that I just don't use TU so I was using her Yellow for board shake up and damage. Even at 5 it was just meh. I have switched her to 5,3,5 and in category 5 I am glad I did. If I get 10 green early I have actually used her green to generate more AP and board shake up. I know there are more powerful green's, but it does make other powers go much faster. I have also found hailstorm to be by far her best ability and at level 5 has just chewed through opponents. It also blocks the board from other special abilitites the AI might use.

Lol, now I have her 5/5/3 and I'm really liking it. I do notice a bit of early damage reduction with the Hailstorm, but after 3-4 turns it's doing the same as the lvl 5, Mistress is severely underrated IMO. No the damage isn't huge, but when you are sitting on say a Star Spangled Avenger or Fireball or even an Aggressive recon, that Mistress is esentially a massive damage skill or a huge AP steal, seriously people if you are running Mohawk without at least one decent TU you are dumb and not using her to her max potential. 9 yellow for board shakeup and 5K+ damage is not a bad thing, plus she's a great way of getting rid of all those X-Force TU"s everyone has but can't use because they are always running X-Force. Mohawk/4hor/your choice plus some X-Force TU's is deadly. And if you have not expierenced a Power Surge, into Mistress into Surgical Strike TU into just massive chaos you haven't lived


EDIT---

FYI assuming you and the AI destroy 4 tiles per turn average you can see how the tiles end up, I will round up or down on tiles at the .5 mark.

After casting Hailstorm
===================
Lvl 5 -- 32 tiles but match 2 deal dmg from 30 -- 1170
Lvl 3 -- 20 tiles but match 1 deal dmg from 19 -- 741
AI destroys 2 at lvl 5, and 1 at lvl 3
===================================
Lvl 5 -- 28 tiles but match 2 deal dmg from 26 -- 1014
Lvl 3 -- 18 tiles but match 1 deal dmg from 17 -- 663
AI destroys 2 at lvl 5, and 1 at lvl 3
===================================
Lvl 5 -- 24 tiles but match 2 deal dmg from 22 -- 858
Lvl 3 -- 16 tiles but match 1 deal dmg from 15 -- 585
AI destroys 1 at lvl 5, and 1 at lvl 3
===================================
Lvl 5 -- 21 tiles but match 1 deal dmg from 20 -- 780
Lvl 3 -- 14 tiles but match 1 deal dmg from 13 -- 507

At this point each side destroys about 1 tile per turn until you get to 7 attack tiles then it's a **** shoot as to if they get destroyed. So over the course the 5/3/5 build will do about 2000K more damage than the 5/5/3 build over 10 turns but that's to be expected, the first few turns though 5/5/3 is slightly ahead on damage. So from my experience and maybe to help others here's the build determinations

3/5/5---Max damage output from Mowhawk
5/5/3--Fastest AP generation and best board shakeup
5/3/5--Less damage than 3/5/5 less shakeup and speed than 5/5/3 but good hybrid

vudu3

Phaserhawk wrote:

Mistress is severely underrated IMO. No the damage isn't huge, but when you are sitting on say a Star Spangled Avenger or Fireball or even an Aggressive recon, that Mistress is esentially a massive damage skill or a huge AP steal

If you're trying to collect TU AP why not just match TU tiles? A Star Spangled Avenger TU costs 11 AP; you can get this in 4 turns by matching TU tiles or you can get this in 5 turns by collecting 9 yellow AP and then matching the remaining 4 TU AP that you'll still need after using Mistress. A Fireball TU costs 8 AP; you can get this in 3 turns by matching TU tiles or you can get this in 4 turns by collecting 9 yellow AP and then matching the remaining 1 TU AP. You get where I'm going with this.

If you're using Mistress simply as a means to collect TU AP you're going to be better off just matching the TU AP outright. This would be fine if Mistress had good damage and the TU AP generation was simply a bonus but it's not--even at level 5 the damage from Mistress is pretty weak so the entire point of the ability is to generate TU AP.

I realize that Mistress also causes board shake ups and possible cascades which is nice but it's a little harder to put numbers on this so I'm ignoring it for the sake of this discussion. Even if we factor in board shake up/cascades, you're not going to see that much of a difference between 5 and 7 TU tiles destroyed and 7 is still half of the effect you'll get from destroying 14 tiles with Lightning Strike.

Unknown

^That right there is a sign the ability is underpowered^

I really don't know why they didn't make it take all the TU tiles on the board, at least at 5 covers.

How I use Mistress of the Elements: "Oh hey, I can get extra yellow with this black match. Cool. Oh look I have 9 Yellow without actually matching yellow as a primary match. Lets do some damage, board shake, and get some TU. OH look I have 11 TU now because of that. *Star Spangled Avenger*."

I don't prioritize yellow, but sometimes it just happens from cascades or small chains. A weak yellow power is far from Mororo's only problem tho. She needs a rebalance, a big one. She can't really play on the 3* stage right now, too low health and too low damage output. Although I do hate when a 249 one casts Hailstorm.

Phaserhawk

vudu3 wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Mistress is severely underrated IMO. No the damage isn't huge, but when you are sitting on say a Star Spangled Avenger or Fireball or even an Aggressive recon, that Mistress is esentially a massive damage skill or a huge AP steal

If you're trying to collect TU AP why not just match TU tiles? A Star Spangled Avenger TU costs 11 AP; you can get this in 4 turns by matching TU tiles or you can get this in 5 turns by collecting 9 yellow AP and then matching the remaining 4 TU AP that you'll still need after using Mistress. A Fireball TU costs 8 AP; you can get this in 3 turns by matching TU tiles or you can get this in 4 turns by collecting 9 yellow AP and then matching the remaining 1 TU AP. You get where I'm going with this.

If you're using Mistress simply as a means to collect TU AP you're going to be better off just matching the TU AP outright. This would be fine if Mistress had good damage and the TU AP generation was simply a bonus but it's not--even at level 5 the damage from Mistress is pretty weak so the entire point of the ability is to generate TU AP.

I realize that Mistress also causes board shake ups and possible cascades which is nice but it's a little harder to put numbers on this so I'm ignoring it for the sake of this discussion. Even if we factor in board shake up/cascades, you're not going to see that much of a difference between 5 and 7 TU tiles destroyed and 7 is still half of the effect you'll get from destroying 14 tiles with Lightning Strike.

NorthernPolarity

Not really sure why everyone is still hung up on the TU aspect of the ability. Polarizing Force is a good ability. Mistress of the Elements is basically a baby polarizing force, which is good enough considering how it works so well with lightning storm. Ergo, Mistress is fine even without using the TU AP. She kinda sucks in PvP, but its irrelevant when even "good" characters like LazyThor are seeing 0 play in PvP because of XF / LadyTHor. At least she is an all-star in PvE, which is a lot more than you can say about most of the other characters in the game.

Unknown

I only use storm in teams for her cascade insanity. Her attack tiles are really good for clogging the board and not much else. For 9 black the skill is average damage at best. Where she excels is having two huge cascade abilities that also generate more ap. couple her with other cascades or e top damage guys in the game and her useful accelerates massively. And yes you can use XF with her for huge goons in pve.

Her black is her most overrated ability because the main thing it does is clog the board and only a little better at 5 than 3 so the trade off is more damage and slight more cascade chance at 5 yellow vs 12 more tiles and like 400 more damage at 5 black. And you get to 30 black insanely fast with storm cascade groups so all you're losing is a tiny amount of damage per attack

5 green is honestly the only one that matters most

Unknown

She shares X-Force colours so she's not going to be used in high level PVP period.
PVP climb: I used to use her with Wolverine/Daken to climb, but now Blade is much better in that niche.
PVE: Her black clog is great against:
A. Goons
B. Traps (particularly caltrops)
C. Doom's demons

In Enemy of the State, MoStorm, Cap and OBW were great for the survival nodes. Clog up all the nodes with black, finish off each round with MOTE or Cap's red, and hit Gorgon with a shield before he gets a turn to move.

DrNitroman

daibar wrote:

In Enemy of the State, MoStorm, Cap and OBW were great for the survival nodes. Clog up all the nodes with black, finish off each round with MOTE or Cap's red, and hit Gorgon with a shield before he gets a turn to move.

I agree. I would fear to use her in pvp cause she's so squishy but I found her surprisingly efficient in survival nodes... and fun!
The fact is survival node means pretty long fights that translates in a potentially high AP pool and MoStorm needs time to chain abilities and to shine

Phaserhawk

LoreNYC wrote:

I only use storm in teams for her cascade insanity. Her attack tiles are really good for clogging the board and not much else. For 9 black the skill is average damage at best. Where she excels is having two huge cascade abilities that also generate more ap. couple her with other cascades or e top damage guys in the game and her useful accelerates massively. And yes you can use XF with her for huge goons in pve.

Her black is her most overrated ability because the main thing it does is clog the board and only a little better at 5 than 3 so the trade off is more damage and slight more cascade chance at 5 yellow vs 12 more tiles and like 400 more damage at 5 black. And you get to 30 black insanely fast with storm cascade groups so all you're losing is a tiny amount of damage per attack

5 green is honestly the only one that matters most

Having some spare covers and playing her both ways, 5/5/3 fits my play style, the difference between 5 yellow and not 5 yellow and pairing with 4hor is insane. 5 yellow allows you to do some crazy things, and here is the big kicker. To everyone playing that has oodles and oodles of X-Force TU's but can't use them do to also playing him, well 4hor/Storm and anyone but Wolvie plus a Surgical Strike or X-Force as your TU's allows you to do some really crazy things. TU's aren't going away so might as well use them to my advantage.

GrumpySmurf1002

Storm is the ultimate niche character. All of her skills are pretty good, so optimal can be pretty relative based on the situation.

If I were to use her with mMags + Mystique, I'd want 5/5/3 hands down, the board is constantly resetting so Hailstorm is useless. Using her with decent greens or for minimal board destruction, I'd definitely want 3/5/5.

I think most utility comes from 5/5/3, but I don't think there's a wrong answer for this one. How you use her defines her.

Unknown

vudu3 wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Mistress is severely underrated IMO. No the damage isn't huge, but when you are sitting on say a Star Spangled Avenger or Fireball or even an Aggressive recon, that Mistress is esentially a massive damage skill or a huge AP steal

If you're trying to collect TU AP why not just match TU tiles? A Star Spangled Avenger TU costs 11 AP; you can get this in 4 turns by matching TU tiles or you can get this in 5 turns by collecting 9 yellow AP and then matching the remaining 4 TU AP that you'll still need after using Mistress. A Fireball TU costs 8 AP; you can get this in 3 turns by matching TU tiles or you can get this in 4 turns by collecting 9 yellow AP and then matching the remaining 1 TU AP. You get where I'm going with this.
.

Actually no I dont. What's wrong with skill dmg PLUS TU? TU is your insurance when things go screwy. Timing your steals, board shake etc you should always set 3. A whales nuke button if things really go bad and you need a nuke at least. 20 members in alliance and no one could be bothered? One intimidation can turn the tide easy. And you don't need a high level for that if say it's for your shield to return faster. Why would anyone go back to the Stone Age of non TU?

Unknown

My Mohawk is 3/5/5 (simply because that's the way the covers came to me) and I've found her to be an excellent compliment to Patch/Daken. Her Yellow/Black give me actives on two colors that normally aren't with Patch/Daken which leaves purple as the only one missing. I really want to drop Berserker Rage so I don't mind not having her green. She only tanks yellow, which is fine since I don't really look to make yellow matches due to Patch's healing anyway. Though having the option to dump Yellow to fuel a strong TU is always nice. Most importantly, though, Hailstorm is beastly after a Berserker Rage + Daken's strike tiles.