*** Storm (Mohawk) ***

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  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I was hoping against hope she would have been a combination of Modern and Classic Storm.

    With Modern Storms Green, Classic Storms Blue, and Modern storms black. Making her still technically Lazy as well as unique being the only Green/Blue/Black character.

    guess She-Hulk will add the uniqueness instead. red/green/blue will be intersting. which means her opposite for rainbow would be yellow/purple/black. I don't think we have one of those either.

    Btw, and you can call it here today. I say within the next 6 months we get Lazy Moonstone, with hopefully some tweaks like the other lazy's
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    I was hoping against hope she would have been a combination of Modern and Classic Storm.

    With Modern Storms Green, Classic Storms Blue, and Modern storms black. Making her still technically Lazy as well as unique being the only Green/Blue/Black character.

    guess She-Hulk will add the uniqueness instead. red/green/blue will be intersting. which means her opposite for rainbow would be yellow/purple/black. I don't think we have one of those either.

    Btw, and you can call it here today. I say within the next 6 months we get Lazy Moonstone, with hopefully some tweaks like the other lazy's

    I'm hoping for Lazy Moonstone. Assuming they tweak her like they have done for the others she could be a great 3*.
  • morghmorgh Posts: 535 Critical Contributor
    She is uninteresting, not powerful enough, has lowish HP and has nothing changed - terrible, lazy and overwhelmingly blowing off character design... Lazy Thor at least is twice as powerful as his 2* counterpart and has crazy HP, Lazy Daken got a 3rd skill and is pretty great, lazy cap **** protect tiles

    And what is the change for Lazy Storm? A Mohawk and +4 (FOUR!) on one of her most important skills...

    meh... definitely not putting HP into her... and as far as ISO is concerned she is definitely lower on my priority list then BP, Patch, Hood and Lazy Cap
  • morgh wrote:
    She is uninteresting, not powerful enough, has lowish HP and has nothing changed - terrible, lazy and overwhelmingly blowing off character design... Lazy Thor at least is twice as powerful as his 2* counterpart and has crazy HP, Lazy Daken got a 3rd skill and is pretty great, lazy cap **** protect tiles

    And what is the change for Lazy Storm? A Mohawk and +4 (FOUR!) on one of her most important skills...

    meh... definitely not putting HP into her... and as far as ISO is concerned she is definitely lower on my priority list then BP, Patch, Hood and Lazy Cap

    Morgh migght as well give it up man these kids think that 1.8k damage for 9AP is a "Large amount" There really isnt any reasoning with them about it at that point.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    Btw, and you can call it here today. I say within the next 6 months we get Lazy Moonstone, with hopefully some tweaks like the other lazy's
    If MPQ still existed until this time... They didn't said, few times, Marvel licence will be soon expire (without saying the exact moment, normal)...Or I'm wrong ?
  • The thing that made mistress of the elements a top tier power was its low price point - the fact that you could get some serious damage, shakeup, and potentially potent abilities off of just two matches (or one with minor boosting). At 9, it'd have to do something ridiculous like triple the gained EAP or do massive damage. 1.8k is not massive at that level. Green... If you don't have anything better to spend green on in your team, your team may be lacking. One of the guys from my alliance got 5/5/0 and dumped a bunch of ISO into her and made his disappointment readily clear in the chatroom! From where I'm standing, for her to be even remotely decent, her black would have to outclass Doom by a pretty wide stretch, and I just don't see that happening.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    For all the haters. The reason her Mistress of the Elements isn't 5AP is because they don't want the infinite turn she can create on Forest and Possibly Desert boards. We all know, red, forests, 5AP every color, green, destroy the board, red again, forests, cast green again, destroy the board, cast black 2 times and wait.

    I give the benefit of the doubt that D3 has some plans. I think L.Storm fits a purpose. The fact that her red no longer costs 5 tells me something is coming regarding enviro tiles and that 5 AP was way too low a cost, in addition if the BP buff on yellow ever comes you can't have MotE too cheap for that as well. Hailstorm while not perfect, does help teams deal with Sentry on some level.

    Completely agree with you on this. I wouldn't change a thing about her. It's quite balanced in my opinion (of course don't put c.mag in the equation)

    Her red has the possibility of doing 3000 dmg, cascade, and lots of env tiles that is beneficial to BP.

    Her black will make a mess of the board,

    gsbw and mn.mag wont be able to use their purple skill optimally
    sentry's WR will somewhat downgraded

    and also, if all (insert colour) become atk tiles,

    yellow - im40 can't place his countdown, spidey can't place his web tiles
    red - laken and psy can't place their strike tiles
    blue - lcap's blue only stuns
    purple - spidey can't place his def tiles
    etc

    Overall, i do agree that she's a 2nd tier gold characters, but not as bad as many people thinks.
  • scottee wrote:
    She looks perfectly balanced to me. Red takes 3 matches instead of 2. Otherwise, just ramping up *1 Storm's health and damage would have been majorly OP. This basically breaks the endless chain, but still makes her very powerful offensively. Sounds like people are basically complaining because they expected her to be OP and now are mad that she's not.

    Also, I do think she gets a ramp up when they adjust the enviro tiles. They said desert and jungle weren't necessarily broken, so I'd guess that they're only going to buff the other terrains, but not nerf those two. That would add additional power to Mohawk.

    I think what you're missing here is that she 1* storm IS slightly OP, but she has very low health to compensate. 3* storm similarly has low health (for a 3*), but doesn't have the saving grace of having a slightly OP ability that makes up for the lack of health. So basically, they pre-nerfed her so that instead of being a top-tier 3*, she's now more in line with spider boy. I think it's unlikely many people will use her in PvP when better options exist.

    They really need to either:
    a) increase her health substantially to make up for the weaker ability
    b) unnerf it so that there's a reason to use such a low-health 3*

    c) stop the absurd gender bias where male characters easily have 2x+ health of their female counterparts, cuz everyone knows women are frail little butterflies that can't stand up for themselves icon_rolleyes.gif
  • are we really complaining that they released a non broken character? i mean i feel like she will be a solid ap generator on offense like the 1star storm but jsut more damage. shes just ok, not every new character has to be great.
  • Pucco wrote:
    Completely agree with you on this. I wouldn't change a thing about her. It's quite balanced in my opinion (of course don't put c.mag in the equation)
    .....
    Overall, i do agree that she's a 2nd tier gold characters, but not as bad as many people thinks.

    Gonna disagree with you here. Looking at the other Lazy characters:
    Thor went from top-tier 2* to top tier 3*
    Daken went from bottom-mid tier 2* to top-mid tier 3*
    Cap went from bottom-mid tier 2* to mid-top tier 3*
    LStorm went from top tier 1* to mid-tier 3*

    More generally:
    Iron Man went from mid-tier 2* to mid-tier 3*
    Mags went from mid-top tier 2* to top-tier 3*
    Spiderman went from bottom tier 2* to top-mid tier 3* to bottom-mid 2*
    Wolverine went from mid-tier 2* to top-tier 3*
    Black Widow went from top tier 1*/2* to mid tier 3*

    It's kind of problematic IMO when there's only ever a token presence of female characters in MPQ, and the few that there are get soft-nerf'ed when they're converted to 3*.
    1* - 3/7 women. 2 useful, but low health, 1 completely useless
    2* - 3/12 women. 2 useful, but low-health, 1 decent health, but generally a second-class hero
    3* - 3/21 women. 3 mid-tier, but all low-mid health
    4* - 1/3 women. No real usable 4*'s at this point so irrelevant

    So in summation, 10/43 of all characters are women, and none of them can be seen as strictly-speaking badass (okay, we'll be getting a token "she-hulk" character soon, but I'm not sure "hulk" characters can even be counted as female or male). All the female characters are pushovers on D, which kind of encourages aggression towards women. i.e. it's okay to attack women (let's be honest, ALL female characters in this game have a target on their back for easy wins in PvP), because they're all stereo-typically weak (except maybe Psylocke) and won't generally mess you up like their male counterparts will.

    One of the things that screwed me in prologue was leveling MBW (she was the only one I had covers for at the time) without realizing that you needed damage tanks in this game, and that specifically only 2 of the female characters in this game (that you ever get covers for - iw doesn't count) can soak any damage without getting instantly downed.
  • Pjoe0211 wrote:
    are we really complaining that they released a non broken character? i mean i feel like she will be a solid ap generator on offense like the 1star storm but jsut more damage. shes just ok, not every new character has to be great.


    That's a pretty low bar to set. They haven't really released a broken new character since IW. Some might say DD was broken, but I just think he's just underwhelming.
  • kensterrkensterr Posts: 1,277 Chairperson of the Boards
    Storm is never a powerhouse in terms of physical durability, but rather in her raw powers.

    I would say the MPQ has stuck quite closely to the Marvel comics power ratings, and I would only be upset if characters like Rogue, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk and to a certain extent, Emma Frost (in her diamond form) doesn't have more than 5800HP. These ladies go can go one-on-one physically with Captain America, Thor, Juggs and maybe even Hulk.

    Please refer to: http://marvel.wikia.com/Category:Durability

    If you glance through it you will see that Storm is in Normal Durability. But so is Jean Grey and Emma Frost... but their durability goes up when Jean has the Phoenix Force and when Emma is in her diamond form.
    Jean Grey: http://marvel.wikia.com/Jean_Grey_(Earth-616)
    Emma Frost: http://marvel.wikia.com/Emma_Frost_(Earth-616)

    Should Demiurge make useless 1* Yelena into a 3*, the could very well make her the Super Adaptoid version. See http://marvel.wikia.com/Yelena_Belova_(Earth-616).

    Marvel heroes have non-straightforward power/strength ratings etc because of their complicated storylines written by different writers.
  • scotteescottee Posts: 1,594 Chairperson of the Boards
    People use 1* Storm to beat 3* teams because of her synergy with desert/forest. Her 5 AP red isn't just OP; it's near broken. It's just not a big deal because she's a 1* and her HP caps at 1600. If Modern Storm had the EXACT same damage, but was a 2* instead so she had more health, she'd be considered broken.

    People are complaining that 3* Storm is a waste because she doesn't have the same broken abilities as 1* PLUS more damage?

    Both 5AP or 6AP for Mistress would be broken on 3* Storm. I think arguing against that is insane. That means the only real debate is between 7AP, 8AP, or 9AP as perfectly balance, and I think it works out fine the way it is because they're all just 3 matches instead of 2.

    Also, her black is better than Doom's in every way. Cheaper, harder to kill off, blocks more tiles. Her ideal build is obviously 5/3/5, but I think the main reason people want to say she's been trashed is that they want to play her the same way as her 1* counterpart. No, she's not god-mode don't let the comp make a move anymore. But yes, she seems pretty darn balanced.
  • I'm really not sure why people are comparing Storm to the two broken Thor tier HP characters (Thor and Sentry). Sentry can drop Storm with a World Rapture, so are you really expecting Storm to be able to do 9000 damage in a single move to make up for that? After all that'd still be kind of weak compared to Sentry because Sentry's move is cheaper (7AP), and it hits the whole team compared to say a hypothetical 9K damage Mistress of the Storm. Likewise Thor can pretty much kill Storm with a Call the Storm and do some damage to the rest of team, so should Lightning Storm do 9000 damage too? You can't compare anyone to the broken tier characters (Mangeto too) because the only conclusion you get is you need to break even more stuff.

    If Mistress of the Storm shatters 10 environmental tiles, that's 1900 damage, plus a 10 tile shakeup that you can actually predict ahead of time to see if any useful cascades occur, unlike random tile shatter abilities. It also gets you 30 EAP, which is enough to fire off an Oasis and 2-3 matches away from a likely game ending Thorned Rose. People do know that you can actually figure out what will cascade from Mistress ahead of time, right?
  • vudu3vudu3 Posts: 940 Critical Contributor
    fritejay2 wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    Btw, and you can call it here today. I say within the next 6 months we get Lazy Moonstone, with hopefully some tweaks like the other lazy's
    If MPQ still existed until this time... They didn't said, few times, Marvel licence will be soon expire (without saying the exact moment, normal)...Or I'm wrong ?
    From IceIX's recent Q & A--see the answer to question #4 below.
    IceIX wrote:
    laoahpeh wrote:
    Hi IceIX, thanks for doing this and I echoed the sentiments that more of such conversations will be much appreciated in the future.

    For me, I would like to understand the inner workings of the devs and publisher.

    1) is demiurge and d3 doing well financially?
    2) how is the revenue/profit of MPQ over the period since launch?
    3) is MPQ the biggest revenue driver for both demiurge n d3?
    4) when does the license from Marvel ends?
    5) do you guys have the permission and/or intention to provide cosmetic additions to the game? E.g. Costumes, hats, animation, etc
    I'm surprised there aren't more questions that aren't mechanics related. icon_e_smile.gif

    1 - Decently enough. None of us are driving Porshes or anything, but we're both doing well enough to be confident enough in the project to push more resources into things and push things forward at a good pace as well as stay in the black overall.
    2 - Not sure exactly what you mean. It did alright out of the gate but nothing to write home about. After some tweaks to the Tutorial, our numbers spiked as the game got more accessible. Almost every change we've made since then has been positive for both profits and for player retention.
    3 - I'm not an accountant, so I don't have access to the books. I'd say it's fairly likely, but since both companies have a back catalog of retail/digital games that are still earning, it's hard to say.
    4 - Not for a long while, and we have extension rights assuming the game is still going strong. But honestly, that's pretty standard for any licensing deal.
    5 - As long as it makes sense for that character, yes. Dressing up Wolverine in a clown costume probably wouldn't fly, for example. As for intention on visual customizability, it's not out of the question. There's a matter of visible silhouettes for each character to deal with, in that if you see Patch versus X-Force Wolverine, you know immediately which is which so you know what to expect from an opponent. Too much in the way of costuming or art changes can muddy the waters there.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    I was hoping against hope she would have been a combination of Modern and Classic Storm.

    With Modern Storms Green, Classic Storms Blue, and Modern storms black. Making her still technically Lazy as well as unique being the only Green/Blue/Black character.

    guess She-Hulk will add the uniqueness instead. red/green/blue will be intersting. which means her opposite for rainbow would be yellow/purple/black. I don't think we have one of those either.

    Btw, and you can call it here today. I say within the next 6 months we get Lazy Moonstone, with hopefully some tweaks like the other lazy's


    What if she hulk is actually 2star lazy hulk???
  • Annoying that her Environment AP is only 3x ...
  • Here's my problem with the current arguments that 3*** Storm is acceptable in her current form.

    As the only real "wizard" type character in the small 1* pool, she stands out as quite powerful. However, in the big ocean of 3***s, her ability/color combination results in a very awkward situation that renders her mostly useless in any serious capacity.

    First, her core problem is that her support colors are on attack colors.

    While her Red interfered with many direct damage abilities, her 1* incarnation generated enough of other colors via cascades for 5 AP to be worth the cost. In her 3*** version, the player is giving up 9 Red AP for this support attack. My question here is.... why in the universe would a logical player cast this when they are only 1 more red match away from a Star-Spangled Avenger, or 2 from a Smash or a Best There Is?

    The same problem can be said for Green as well. Lightning Strike costs 10 Green AP. Although at higher cover levels she generates more AP than she spends to cast this ability, why would a player want to consume 10 Green AP when he/she is only one match four away from a game ending Call the Storm? And what about World Rupture, for that matter?

    In other words, in the 3*** game, Red and Green are colors that are collected to end the game. No one with a sane mind is going to suddenly switch these colors to a support role in their rosters, when their opponents are surely not doing the same.

    That leaves her with Black as a one trick pony. Her Black is passable, but not exemplary in any way. Yes, she crowds the board with attack tiles, and yes she deliver Doom-like attack damage for one less match than Summon Demons. But, that alone, is not sufficient to win her any serious spots on anyone's roster.

    I've read arguments for BP. Why? If you need to spend 9 Red + 9 Yellow to generate attack tiles, why not just bring Punisher to create attack tiles for 8 Green? With her Environment rating at 3, she would need (45/3) 15 Environment tiles collected by Mistress to generate enough EAP for BP to generate 3 attack tiles with Battleplan. That's just awful. Further, Mohawk + BP have conflicting Blacks. Most will surely cast Rage of Panther over Hailstorm in most situations (3k AoE now is much better than potential damage over time), which would render her Black useless in this pairing.

    Either way, she either needs a massive buff on Black to be meaningful, cost reduction on red, or really a shift of her colors to be support for her to be meaningful. If she had kept most of her 2* colors, she would have been much more useful. Yellow for Lightning Strike (as an AP generating support color; also lightning is yellow - see Thor), Blue for Mistress (Wind picking up EAP as a support color), and Black for Hailstorm ( black equals attack tiles).

    As she is now, she doesn't fit well with any serious 3*** team compositions.
  • ColognoisseurColognoisseur Posts: 769 Critical Contributor
    Lyrian wrote:
    Here's my problem with the current arguments that 3*** Storm is acceptable in her current form.

    As the only real "wizard" type character in the small 1* pool, she stands out as quite powerful. However, in the big ocean of 3***s, her ability/color combination results in a very awkward situation that renders her mostly useless in any serious capacity.

    First, her core problem is that her support colors are on attack colors.

    While her Red interfered with many direct damage abilities, her 1* incarnation generated enough of other colors via cascades for 5 AP to be worth the cost. In her 3*** version, the player is giving up 9 Red AP for this support attack. My question here is.... why in the universe would a logical player cast this when they are only 1 more red match away from a Star-Spangled Avenger, or 2 from a Smash or a Best There Is?

    The same problem can be said for Green as well. Lightning Strike costs 10 Green AP. Although at higher cover levels she generates more AP than she spends to cast this ability, why would a player want to consume 10 Green AP when he/she is only one match four away from a game ending Call the Storm? And what about World Rupture, for that matter?

    In other words, in the 3*** game, Red and Green are colors that are collected to end the game. No one with a sane mind is going to suddenly switch these colors to a support role in their rosters, when their opponents are surely not doing the same.

    That leaves her with Black as a one trick pony. Her Black is passable, but not exemplary in any way. Yes, she crowds the board with attack tiles, and yes she deliver Doom-like attack damage for one less match than Summon Demons. But, that alone, is not sufficient to win her any serious spots on anyone's roster.

    I've read arguments for BP. Why? If you need to spend 9 Red + 9 Yellow to generate attack tiles, why not just bring Punisher to create attack tiles for 8 Green? With her Environment rating at 3, she would need (45/3) 15 Environment tiles collected by Mistress to generate enough EAP for BP to generate 3 attack tiles with Battleplan. That's just awful. Further, Mohawk + BP have conflicting Blacks. Most will surely cast Rage of Panther over Hailstorm in most situations (3k AoE now is much better than potential damage over time), which would render her Black useless in this pairing.

    Either way, she either needs a massive buff on Black to be meaningful, cost reduction on red, or really a shift of her colors to be support for her to be meaningful. If she had kept most of her 2* colors, she would have been much more useful. Yellow for Lightning Strike (as an AP generating support color; also lightning is yellow - see Thor), Blue for Mistress (Wind picking up EAP as a support color), and Black for Hailstorm ( black equals attack tiles).

    As she is now, she doesn't fit well with any serious 3*** team compositions.

    I can confirm that everything Lyrian says is true in her current configuration Storm is bottom tier 3* because she doesn't play well with others. In every configuration I've used her in the other red or green abilities are too close in cost and way more devastating. The only place she is useful is in PvE goon battles where her effects are all functional. If i see her on a PvP team it will mean auto attack from me. The idea that she is the anti-sentry is laughable you ill not get any of her effects off before world rupture or sacrifice make you pay. I think her red needs to be reduced to 6 to make her viable. Until then she joins DD in the rarely used section of my 3*'s
  • Moment I looked ay some's 5/4/4 I knew I was right and she wasn't good. My assesmeny is mostly the same, except now I know dmg values for red and black...so...

    Hp: awful. Pretty simply good/bad issue. It's low. And unlike hood, who ALWAYS does SOMETHING for you before he dies on def...storm needs a medium range of a coor to get anything off.

    Green: not bad, but with how good green is its jist not worth it. Vs other 1* or back in.the day green wasn't so insane (unless u ran astonishing) and so the tradeoff of green for some other color ap + cascades was great. Not so much with green the strongest color now.

    Red: its a different move now. Before it was a spam for env. Now its really more like mag's translocation but miniaturized while generating env ap as a side bonus. It's not a bad red, its pretty good, but its nothing like it was before and isn't good enough to make up for the low hp.

    Black: this is her equivalent to hood blue. The hope is the machine to get 9 black quickly, pop this off, and watch the opponent take damage every turn as its nearly impossible to clear every tile she put out. Of course, 9 ap can be a lifetime for the machine and when you say 3 more black for bp wipes a team AND comes w/ double hp its kinda like "why."

    It's funny, because the only reason I think she sucks is because, unlike other lazy characters where they were trying to buff characters, with storm they clearly were trying to nerf her powers to some extent. Damage from 1* scaled to 3*** would be much higher and the red getting higher ap is a nerf (though indiciative of the glut pillaging likely to occur to magneto sadly...as basically every "lower ap" move has simply received its base value. That would mean expect blue to be 9 for mags. Aka...insta drop from team). Compare that to all of shieldbros moves getting buffed, thor getting HIGHER than expected damage scaling, dakan receiving a new really good ability and the pattern of "d3 cannot balance pre-existing.characters via nerfs...at all" extends to this as well.

    That said, I don't think this is a horrible way to go with her. I just feel thereust have been.something to make her a little more intimidating. Maybe drop the black to 6 ap and make it do closer to (less due fo less ap) 700-800 per turn to make it more of a "get out early on def" move.
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