*** She-Hulk (Modern) ***

famousfoxking

john1620b wrote:

Yeah, based on how it's worded it should be 1/1 when there are only two special tiles, but it's better it's in her favor. I'm not sure why they stuck with the really confusing wording -- it should just be, "Steals up to two enemy special tiles, improving them by XX."

Even weirder, if the enemy has 3 special tiles, all three "blink" then two of them turn white and go to your side, while the third remains unchanged. I think the description is what the power is actually doing: i.e. choosing 3 tiles, giving one of the three back to the AI, giving 2 to you then improving them. Why the power does that instead of just stealing 2 special tiles? I have no idea.

john1620b

famousfoxking wrote:

john1620b wrote:

Yeah, based on how it's worded it should be 1/1 when there are only two special tiles, but it's better it's in her favor. I'm not sure why they stuck with the really confusing wording -- it should just be, "Steals up to two enemy special tiles, improving them by XX."

Even weirder, if the enemy has 3 special tiles, all three "blink" then two of them turn white and go to your side, while the third remains unchanged. I think the description is what the power is actually doing: i.e. choosing 3 tiles, giving one of the three back to the AI, giving 2 to you then improving them. Why the power does that instead of just stealing 2 special tiles? I have no idea.

Based on their history of character design, I'd guess the designer actually didn't realize there was a simpler way of describing what was happening. So the code probably is actually "stealing and giving back" another special tile.

himatako

The more I use her, the more I like her. Her green really needs to be 4 or 5. Even at 3 it's saved me from Thor & Deadpool launching their AOE attacks for many times already. Stealing enemy special tiles is also fun especially when you prepare for it like when you fight with Gamora (I stole all her tiles lol)

I'm not sure if I'm ready to drop her red yet, since after stealing all the strike tiles, her cheap AOE + strike tiles bonus is great. Not to mention it doesn't care whether your enemy is invisible or not. Next time her cover appears on Daily Deadpool it should be her green so I'm looking forward to it.

famousfoxking

john1620b wrote:

Based on their history of character design, I'd guess the designer actually didn't realize there was a simpler way of describing what was happening. So the code probably is actually "stealing and giving back" another special tile.

Yeah, I'm guessing they just didn't touch the tile selection mechanism, and only changed the effect that happens after tiles are selected.

(I love the image in your sig, but every time it cycles through the DC characters it bothers me. Not that I don't love the DC characters, but never the twain shall meet, dude!)

john1620b

famousfoxking wrote:

john1620b wrote:

Based on their history of character design, I'd guess the designer actually didn't realize there was a simpler way of describing what was happening. So the code probably is actually "stealing and giving back" another special tile.

Yeah, I'm guessing they just didn't touch the tile selection mechanism, and only changed the effect that happens after tiles are selected.

(I love the image in your sig, but every time it cycles through the DC characters it bothers me. Not that I don't love the DC characters, but never the twain shall meet, dude!)

Ha, thanks. Yeah, I'd take out the DC ones, but I didn't create the image, just found it somewhere online. I could probably edit it, but that's more trouble than it's worth.

famousfoxking

john1620b wrote:

Ha, thanks. Yeah, I'd take out the DC ones, but I didn't create the image, just found it somewhere online. I could probably edit it, but that's more trouble than it's worth.

Yeah it would take some actual doing to change the Punisher>Batman transition, then the Joker>Gambit transition, for example.

famousfoxking

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

It's not something that should bother me because it's pretty minor, but since they just reworked her, I don't understand why the scaling on her red wasn't standardized.

Yeah, I love her now but she still needs a little TLC. Blue needs to be refactored: it should continue to have the exact same end effect it has now, but come about that effect in a way that isn't insane. Red could use a tweak to its power curve, as you mention. Green is perfect as it is, though I have no idea *why* it's green, but that's a very minor annoyance.

Hulkamania

Stuck on whether to build her 454 or 445. I love her red damage but taking out two colours is tempting. Anyone have any more thoughts?

Phaserhawk

Hulkamania wrote:

Stuck on whether to build her 454 or 445. I love her red damage but taking out two colours is tempting. Anyone have any more thoughts?

Honestly, I think you want her 4 5 4 or 3 5 5

General rule of thumb, if a character only has 1 damaging ability....max it.

Quebbster

Phaserhawk wrote:

Hulkamania wrote:

Stuck on whether to build her 454 or 445. I love her red damage but taking out two colours is tempting. Anyone have any more thoughts?

Honestly, I think you want her 4 5 4 or 3 5 5

General rule of thumb, if a character only has 1 damaging ability....max it.

Agreed. Particularly since the cascade potential is much higher at 5 red.

Phaserhawk

Quebbster wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Hulkamania wrote:

Stuck on whether to build her 454 or 445. I love her red damage but taking out two colours is tempting. Anyone have any more thoughts?

Honestly, I think you want her 4 5 4 or 3 5 5

General rule of thumb, if a character only has 1 damaging ability....max it.

Agreed. Particularly since the cascade potential is much higher at 5 red.

She is a pain in the **** to play against on defense, that green is top notch AP disruption. Played against her and a Thor in current PvP where they are boosted. Got yellowed by Thor that chained into lots of green. Then She-Hulk stole 4 of my colors over 2 turns

dkffiv

Phaserhawk wrote:

Hulkamania wrote:

Stuck on whether to build her 454 or 445. I love her red damage but taking out two colours is tempting. Anyone have any more thoughts?

Honestly, I think you want her 4 5 4 or 3 5 5

General rule of thumb, if a character only has 1 damaging ability....max it.

I think green is her best ability now and I'm pretty sure I want 5 in it no matter what. The next question is are you going to bring her into a situation where her blue is useless? Are her green and red strong enough that you are willing to bring her in on just those? If blue is coming into play then you definitely want at least 4 in it (unless you are specifically countering IF or Cage, even though they are frequently together).

4-5 blue is an additional +68 per tile (technically 55%), 4-3 red is more than a 50% reduction in damage. 4-5 red is a 30% increase in damage and a minor increase in cascades. Having a hard time not picking 4/5/4.

Unknown

dkffiv wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Hulkamania wrote:

Stuck on whether to build her 454 or 445. I love her red damage but taking out two colours is tempting. Anyone have any more thoughts?

Honestly, I think you want her 4 5 4 or 3 5 5

General rule of thumb, if a character only has 1 damaging ability....max it.

I think green is her best ability now and I'm pretty sure I want 5 in it no matter what. The next question is are you going to bring her into a situation where her blue is useless? Are her green and red strong enough that you are willing to bring her in on just those? If blue is coming into play then you definitely want at least 4 in it (unless you are specifically countering IF or Cage, even though they are frequently together).

4-5 blue is an additional +68 per tile (technically 55%), 4-3 red is more than a 50% reduction in damage. 4-5 red is a 30% increase in damage and a minor increase in cascades. Having a hard time not picking 4/5/4.

I haven't played She-Hulk extensively but I've played her a little hiding behind my real characters and with Ultron, Daken/Patch/Iron Fist/Luke Cage all over PVP, I see her as invaluable. Yes, you WANT 5 in red, but her other 2 abilities are just too useful. I'm conflicted. Also biased because my Shulkie is 5/5/2

Unknown

dkffiv wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Hulkamania wrote:

Stuck on whether to build her 454 or 445. I love her red damage but taking out two colours is tempting. Anyone have any more thoughts?

Honestly, I think you want her 4 5 4 or 3 5 5

General rule of thumb, if a character only has 1 damaging ability....max it.

I think green is her best ability now and I'm pretty sure I want 5 in it no matter what. The next question is are you going to bring her into a situation where her blue is useless? Are her green and red strong enough that you are willing to bring her in on just those? If blue is coming into play then you definitely want at least 4 in it (unless you are specifically countering IF or Cage, even though they are frequently together).

4-5 blue is an additional +68 per tile (technically 55%), 4-3 red is more than a 50% reduction in damage. 4-5 red is a 30% increase in damage and a minor increase in cascades. Having a hard time not picking 4/5/4.

Yep.

Most teams, even rainbow ones, have one or at most two show stopper skills. Most times it's the color they go after first, and heavily. green 5 has a 33% chance of zeroing that ap pool completely every 2 green matches - assuming they got at least 1 of every ap. Early these chances go up dramatically.

That is stronger than stealing any size strike/protect tiles, and stringer than max damage red. IMHO 5 green is mandatory - it's fore sure the cover that gives me pause when I fight her.

I'd also argue that red and green are going to be very good every single fight while blue might not come up in many. That's how my shulk built herself.

Hulkamania

My thinking on 4 5 4 was that you will still affect maximum tiles with blue although granted you are giving up damage. I have frequently got cascades on red so it's really hard for me to drop that. I probably will go with 4 4 5 Thanks for advice.

Dauthi

Bringing her blue to 3 is pretty crippling, 3 to 4 doubles it's effect which can't be overlooked. If you go 3 you might as well consider her blue nearly useless in the situations it could shine *cough* PVE *cough*. 5 green seems like a no brainer, it is great in offense and defense. Bringing red from 5 to 4 means you go from dealing 1400 damage to the team to around 1100? The damage is already minor considering HP buffs to the heroes, so it's not like red damage is going to win you the game but the other 2 skills just might. You also lose destruction of 3 tiles, which seems pretty minor. I personally think 4/5/4 is the best compromise.

*Edit, I mean 4/5/4 not 4/4/5

Pwuz_

Her Red is still hands down her best ability in my opinion as the team damage & cascade chances make it very useful, I'm excited that they are handing out a Red progression reward during Enemy of the State. Between that & the Green cover I have left over from that Heroic, my 5/4/4 Shulk is ready for me to chose my preferred build.

While I understand the logic that 5 in Green is significantly more useful defensively (especially considering the chance that the 2nd casting could reduce 100% of the pool it reduced partially last casting), I'm not sold.

#1. Since the opponent could potentially collect just 1 AP between casts for the same result, how often are you going to be casting it back to back? The AI certainly will never collect that much Green AP unless it was saving for a different team member's ability and they get killed off before casting.

Which leads to #2. How many better outlets are there for Green than just a purely defensive maneuver? Given the choice, I can't think of a single Green ability I'd forgo given the choice between them or this.

Going 4/4/5 is just as useful in that respect as 5/3/5.

Then there is the fact that Blue is not nearly as contested as Green. Sure it's a circumstantial ability that has NO VALUE against teams without a special tile generator.

Then there is my final point. Besides the rare occasions that Shulk is required, how often am I really going choose to use her? I've got a decent enough roster that it'll be a rare combination between needing health packs & her being buffed. Circumstantial is about all she's got.

Dauthi

Pwuz_ wrote:

Her Red is still hands down her best ability in my opinion as the team damage & cascade chances make it very useful, I'm excited that they are handing out a Red progression reward during Enemy of the State. Between that & the Green cover I have left over from that Heroic, my 5/4/4 Shulk is ready for me to chose my preferred build.

While I understand the logic that 5 in Green is significantly more useful defensively (especially considering the chance that the 2nd casting could reduce 100% of the pool it reduced partially last casting), I'm not sold.

#1. Since the opponent could potentially collect just 1 AP between casts for the same result, how often are you going to be casting it back to back? The AI certainly will never collect that much Green AP unless it was saving for a different team member's ability and they get killed off before casting.

Which leads to #2. How many better outlets are there for Green than just a purely defensive maneuver? Given the choice, I can't think of a single Green ability I'd forgo given the choice between them or this.

Going 4/4/5 is just as useful in that respect as 5/3/5.

Then there is the fact that Blue is not nearly as contested as Green. Sure it's a circumstantial ability that has NO VALUE against teams without a special tile generator.

Then there is my final point. Besides the rare occasions that Shulk is required, how often am I really going choose to use her? I've got a decent enough roster that it'll be a rare combination between needing health packs & her being buffed. Circumstantial is about all she's got.

In pvp I don't think "oh no, she is going to hit my whole team for 1.5k damage and some shake up!" You will never lose against an AI hulk from her red, and you won't win games because of it. What I am more worried about is: "She could potentially wipe all all of color X that I saved, essentially starting me back to square one and possibly losing the match". Now when she has 5 in green, the potential game changer doubles and at the cheap cost of 6 she is virtually guaranteed to cast it once.

Using it offensively goes something like this: you save green until they can potentially fire an ability. If this happens before 12, you fire your 6 off and your odds are decent that you have just saved yourself from that ability. If you get to 12 green, as soon as they get an ability ready to fire, you get to basically reset their entire AP collection. That is a crazy game changer. Losing 300 damage from red is nothing compared to having to start back at square one.

If you think blue is not good because it is circumstantial, you really need to try her blue out in both current PVE events. It is ridiculously good, and you will love yourself for not axing her blue. Yes, not so great in PVP, but with 4/5/4 you get the best of both worlds with very marginal loss. You just have to be willing to give up 300 damage on her already low damaging AOE.

With so many other colors up to bat for damage now, it's nice to see green putting out a debuff alternative that can compete. Embrace it, I say.

Phaserhawk

Dauthi wrote:

Pwuz_ wrote:

Her Red is still hands down her best ability in my opinion as the team damage & cascade chances make it very useful, I'm excited that they are handing out a Red progression reward during Enemy of the State. Between that & the Green cover I have left over from that Heroic, my 5/4/4 Shulk is ready for me to chose my preferred build.

While I understand the logic that 5 in Green is significantly more useful defensively (especially considering the chance that the 2nd casting could reduce 100% of the pool it reduced partially last casting), I'm not sold.

#1. Since the opponent could potentially collect just 1 AP between casts for the same result, how often are you going to be casting it back to back? The AI certainly will never collect that much Green AP unless it was saving for a different team member's ability and they get killed off before casting.

Which leads to #2. How many better outlets are there for Green than just a purely defensive maneuver? Given the choice, I can't think of a single Green ability I'd forgo given the choice between them or this.

Going 4/4/5 is just as useful in that respect as 5/3/5.

Then there is the fact that Blue is not nearly as contested as Green. Sure it's a circumstantial ability that has NO VALUE against teams without a special tile generator.

Then there is my final point. Besides the rare occasions that Shulk is required, how often am I really going choose to use her? I've got a decent enough roster that it'll be a rare combination between needing health packs & her being buffed. Circumstantial is about all she's got.

In pvp I don't think "oh no, she is going to hit my whole team for 1.5k damage and some shake up!" You will never lose against an AI hulk from her red, and you won't win games because of it. What I am more worried about is: "She could potentially wipe all all of color X that I saved, essentially starting me back to square one and possibly losing the match". Now when she has 5 in green, the potential game changer doubles and at the cheap cost of 6 she is virtually guaranteed to cast it once.

Using it offensively goes something like this: you save green until they can potentially fire an ability. If this happens before 12, you fire your 6 off and your odds are decent that you have just saved yourself from that ability. If you get to 12 green, as soon as they get an ability ready to fire, you get to basically reset their entire AP collection. That is a crazy game changer. Losing 300 damage from red is nothing compared to having to start back at square one.

If you think blue is not good because it is circumstantial, you really need to try her blue out in both current PVE events. It is ridiculously good, and you will love yourself for not axing her blue. Yes, not so great in PVP, but with 4/5/4 you get the best of both worlds with very marginal loss. You just have to be willing to give up 300 damage on her already low damaging AOE.

With so many other colors up to bat for damage now, it's nice to see green putting out a debuff alternative that can compete. Embrace it, I say.

Well having got lots of her covers I decided to run an experiment. I went from 5 /5 /3 to 3 /5 /5 . In addition the free She-Hulk you go to play with was 5 /4 /4 .

Here is my thoughts.

Blue --- Is 100% situational, that being said, losing out on the extra tile steal in this last PvE did suck. 68 is the amount you lose on buffing tiles from level 4 to 5, while an extra 136 dmg per turn seems nice, it's far from game breaking.

Green ---This doesn't really do much in PvE against goons, you may stop a CD tile from being used on you for 1 turn, but that's about it. If you only used her for PvE, this would be for sure a 3 of. On the flip side, in PvP or in non-goon battles, this skill is game breaking defensively and has saved me numerous times. The cons of not having this maxed only really occur if you use it back to back. In other words if you have it at level 3 or 4 and you have 12 AP, if you destroy say 100% of their green and 50-75% of their black, then use it again, you run the risk of it triggering on that color again, that is where the 2x 100% really matters.

Red ---Dauthi hit upon this quite right, the skill is not going to win or lose you games, but it's more than 300 AoE, remember you do lose 3 on the tile destruction so you are reducing cascade potential however slightly.

Overall, just like in Doc Ock, she needs to have 4 covers in all her skills IMO. The difference from 3 green to 4 green is really a lot most of the time, imagine the AI Thor sitting at 11 yellow or 13 Green, would you rather knock him down to 6 yellow 7 green, knock him down to 3 and 4 or possibly all 0? Blue has to be 4, I learned that the hard way this PvE, however I think to drop red to 4 for bumping up blue is a bad idea, because the 325 x 3 damage you lose IMO does not equal the possible 136 extra damage per turn assuming you steal a strike or attack tile, that's an extra 2.3 attacks on each guy so almost 7 triggers of the 2 tiles you stole to recoop the damage lost on red, and considering her red boosted does hit hard I cannot justify taking 5 blue over it. My question comes down to , is 5 green worth it, or would I rather have 5 red. Well if you are brining her PvE 5 red makes more sense, especially in Heroic's or when she's featred that red hit's hard. Not to mention, if someone attacks into me in PvP she is going to fire green the minute it hits 6 AP, so the fear of double tapping and hitting the 75% steal on the second go around is less of an issue. And at 75% it should save you from a build up skill, because let's face it, that's what it is good for, little 6 AP skills it's just a small delay, but big 10+ ones it will save your **** even at 75%. So IMO She-Hulk will cover you best all around at

4 5 4

Unknown

You can cast green twice with 12 ap and with 5 in green you will always hit 4 ap pools, while with green at 4 you'll often hit three. This is a huge functional difference. On top of that you'll often use her green against goons that produce up to 9 ap a turn, so the 75% one could easily leave 5 or 6 ap behind.

It's 6 ap to send goons back to the stone age. Take 5 and be merry.