Upcoming New Feature: Booster Crafting (5/25/17)

hawkyh1

maybe if booster crafting required both tokens and
some runes then both players who converted and
players who didn't will have part of what's needed
to craft.

HH

wereotter

hawkyh1 said:

maybe if booster crafting required both tokens and
some runes then both players who converted and
players who didn't will have part of what's needed
to craft.

HH

Except that this system would be worse in the long run as all duplicates once the system is implemented will automatically convert into crafting tokens. There will be no possible way to get runes from duplicates which will make crafting even more difficult. 

hawkyh1

wereotter said:

hawkyh1 said:

maybe if booster crafting required both tokens and
some runes then both players who converted and
players who didn't will have part of what's needed
to craft.

HH

Except that this system would be worse in the long run as all duplicates once the system is implemented will automatically convert into crafting tokens. There will be no possible way to get runes from duplicates which will make crafting even more difficult. 

make it flexible. if it costs 10 tokens to craft.
you can craft with 5-8 tokens and make up
the numbers to 10 tokens via runes. higher
rarity crafting boosters can require a higher
tokens %.

HH

PersonMan

Opening boosters is one of the best parts of Magic - and we want to make that experience even better by providing a way to get guaranteed new cards. We also want to keep PvP competition fair for all players. In order to do so, we’re introducing two token types. Duplicate cards from the newest card set (Amonkhet) will provide tokens used to craft boosters from "Standard" card sets (currently Origins, Kaladesh, Aether Revolt and Amonkhet), and duplicate cards from older card sets will let you craft boosters from sets outside of “Standard.

@Brigby

Can you explain the reasoning behind this? Why should Origins, Kaladesh, and Aether duplicates be converted into useless non-Standard cards?  It makes puchases and Event winnings in those blocks mostly pointless.  And it will engender a lot of anger from mid-range players like me.

I've been playing casually for a long time, love the game, and have spent real money on it.  But I don't have a lot of Mythics.  The change to Standard in PvP events has made those games much much harder for me (and I am dreading the day I reach Platinum Tier difficulty).  But I do have a number of Origins/Kaladesh/Aether Rare duplicates (and a few Mythic duplicates) that I would love to use to get new cards from within those respective blocks or Amonkhet.  

And think about it from the perspective of a player who loves the game but doesn't read the forums or pay close attention to the Q&A.  At first glance, the new Token system will make a lot of people happy and excited to maybe buy cards from previous blocks.  But then when they learn that their duplicates from Origins/Kaladesh/Aether are being converted into non-Standard cards that are essentially less useful than Runes, they will be even more angry the they were before the new Token system was introduced.  

TLDR: This easily changed detail means that the new Token system gives players the appearance of being able to get new cards from duplicates, but in reality any new cards they get from duplicates will be mostly useless.  And that's terrible.  

nexus13

I think the most basic question is why can't I get more cards from the set that the dups came from?  I'm pretty sure the player base would agree on that as unanimously as they ever agree on anything.  Origin dups should be able to get you new Origins cards, same for KLD and AER.

Corn_Noodles

nexus13 said:

I think the most basic question is why can't I get more cards from the set that the dups came from?  I'm pretty sure the player base would agree on that as unanimously as they ever agree on anything.  Origin dups should be able to get you new Origins cards, same for KLD and AER.

The problem you're going to run into is that it will cost a lot to get new cards. If you restrict set for set, most people will have to collect duplicates for a very long time to see anything new. I think separating Standard and non-Standard is a good way to go, but anything currently in Standard should be able to be used for Standard.

nexus13

Corn Noodles said:

nexus13 said:

I think the most basic question is why can't I get more cards from the set that the dups came from?  I'm pretty sure the player base would agree on that as unanimously as they ever agree on anything.  Origin dups should be able to get you new Origins cards, same for KLD and AER.

The problem you're going to run into is that it will cost a lot to get new cards. If you restrict set for set, most people will have to collect duplicates for a very long time to see anything new. I think separating Standard and non-Standard is a good way to go, but anything currently in Standard should be able to be used for Standard.

If you allow standard for standard then that includes being able to get Origins with Origins and any set for itself.  I think what they don't want is for people with old sets to be able to get all the newest cards by trading in their dups.  I don't want to restrict Origins to only Origins but I want Origins to at least be able to get more Origins, if it has a larger reach then all the better.

Brigby

@PersonMan
(Disclaimer: I am not a developer, therefore I am basing my following comments on personal analysis and information in the announcement)

The biggest takeaway from the announcement, which I believe explains why only Amonkhet duplicates will provide "Standard" tokens, is the following quote:

We also want to keep PvP competition fair for all players.

While there are many players that decided to convert duplicates into runes, there are also many players that decided to stockpile their duplicates. The concern is that if duplicate cards from Origins, Kaladesh, and Aether Revolt (sets which were released much earlier than the Booster Crafting announcement) were allowed to be converted into "Standard tokens", then those players that hoarded would have an immediate higher advantage in the new PvP events. By limiting it to only Amonkhet duplicates, it eliminates that advantage.

losdamianos

@Brigby fair enough, are there any plans for the future to bring SOI or BFZ to the standard rotation? Or is it a definite NO

Laeuftbeidir

losdamianos said:

@Brigby fair enough, are there any plans for the future to bring SOI or BFZ to the standard rotation? Or is it a definite NO

I just jump on that train
.. Or to give us SOI / whateveroldsetthatrotatedoutofstandard events from time to time with the standard environment of these sets?

Brigby

@losdamianos
That's a good question. I personally speculate that if this is the current format, then moving forward it's unlikely older sets will be added in. Having said that though, I'll be sure to ask the developers.

@Laeuftbeidir
This is a request I've heard a decent amount, so that is also a question I've passed along to the developers for evaluation. When I hear back from them, I'll be sure to relay the news to the community.

babar3355

Even if they don't do set specific legacy blocks, it would be nice if you guys occasionally do some PvP events that allow the use of all cards.  Don't get me wrong, I would love an old school **** event where the only legal cards were Origins and the SOI block, but that's the ultimate dream.  Simply having some competitive events that weren't restricted to current sets would be nice.

Abenjes

babar3355 said:

Even if they don't do set specific legacy blocks, it would be nice if you guys occasionally do some PvP events that allow the use of all cards.  Don't get me wrong, I would love an old school tinykitty event where the only legal cards were Origins and the SOI block, but that's the ultimate dream.  Simply having some competitive events that weren't restricted to current sets would be nice.

This, we don't all have 60 crystals to spend on trials. I'm enjoying standard but I do miss the free for all that was QB

Froggy

@Brigby @Hibernum_JC

Why not just create a storefront where those with dupes can convert them in the way they want? Meaning, if I want to use my SOI dupes to get more SOI cards, let me go to a storefront and covert these SOI dupes to trade for he card I want, or runes, or even mana crystals. Same for each card set.

You guys/D3 would set the price/conversion rates anyhow. How can you possibly design a blanket system where you/D3 decide what every single player wants??? As much as I would like that to be the case, it is not possible. Yet setting up a system as mentioned above, players will have the FREE CHOICE to do what they want with their cards. Realize many players paid real life money for cards - including those dupes. To just irresponsibly decide that this is what everyone wants will not be he smartest move. Decide on the restrictions and then give options for the player to make his final decision as to what he wants to do.

For example, as it is right now, I don't need runes. I have enough for at least 2 more PW. In some weeks I might be short on runes. Instead, As of right now I need mana crystals. I also need cards, of course. But what If I am set on getting the new PW coming out soon? If I am thinking of this problem, what do you think the new player is thinking??

I think the idea of how to handle the dupe problem needs to be looked at more objectively and a solution worked out so that EVERYONE actually benefits - not just the new, or the seasoned veteran. Please really look this over.

PersonMan

Brigby said:

@PersonMan
(Disclaimer: I am not a developer, therefore I am basing my following comments on personal analysis and information in the announcement)

The biggest takeaway from the announcement, which I believe explains why only Amonkhet duplicates will provide "Standard" tokens, is the following quote:

We also want to keep PvP competition fair for all players.

While there are many players that decided to convert duplicates into runes, there are also many players that decided to stockpile their duplicates. The concern is that if duplicate cards from Origins, Kaladesh, and Aether Revolt (sets which were released much earlier than the Booster Crafting announcement) were allowed to be converted into "Standard tokens", then those players that hoarded would have an immediate higher advantage in the new PvP events. By limiting it to only Amonkhet duplicates, it eliminates that advantage.

That's a reasonable answer, and I do appreciate the prompt and honest response. 

But I would note that if the matchmaking process accounted for the number of Masterpieces/Mythics/Rares in your deck, this wouldn't be a issue.  Whales and/or hoarders would just play against other with decks composed of mostly Mythics and Masterpieces.  (Or metagame by just using a few such cards, which wouldn't be a bad thing). 

Conversely, if you implement the crafting system as designed, and the new Standard format rotates out a block of cards every 3-6 months, then you don't really own any of your in game purchases.  You're just renting them for a year-ish, and then they become mostly worthless.  I was happy to buy $150 worth of stuff over the past year.  But with all of the recent resource and card devaluation changes, I'm not likely to spend more in the future, unless the game changes again in the future to make such purchases worthwhile. 

Brigby

@Laeuftbeidir @losdamianos
I just received an update from the developers. There are currently no plans to add SOI nor BFZ to the PvP deck format

@PersonMan
Matchmaking in and of itself is a separate complicated system that needs addressing, and the development team will actually be evaluating that topic following development of Booster Crafting. 

When it comes to the deck format for PvP, you are correct in that card blocks will eventually rotate out. This "Standard" format was implemented in order to aid in card balancing, as well as to invigorate the excitement of crafting new decks, instead of simply relying on older, but powerful, staple cards. 

Having said that though, we understand that players still want the available option to play older sets, so those cards are still able to be used in PvE events. (Trial of Zeal being the exception) 

Laeuftbeidir

Brigby said:

@Laeuftbeidir @losdamianos
I just received an update from the developers. There are currently no plans to add SOI nor BFZ to the PvP deck format.

'I'm not surprised - I'll ask you again next week thanks for the update!

kauppila

@Brigby
So, why do we need a new "token" currency?
If the dupes for Commons and Uncommons made Runes, the dupes for Rares made crystals, and the dupes for Mythics or Masterpieces made Jewels, then we could just use those currencies to buy packs.  Tadaa!
Jewels as a currency was only introduced a short time ago (during the last block), so certainly wouldn't diminish it's value at all.
And i think most people would opt for purchasing AMK boosters in any case.  If you have more options for purchase, some using Runes, some with Crystals or Jewels, and maybe have the cards that they can offer be more limited, then you have a great thing going.

The need for multiple "tokens" is just another way to dilute our time/effort, and maybe get a little something, but geeze, just let us use our runes, crystals and jewels in more creative ways.

Like many people, I have been playing since the beginning.  But, it wasn't until about 2 months ago that I stopped turning my dupes into Runes.  So, I will be WAY behind some others who just haven't needed the runes from dupes and have been holding onto them.  And... the Green button in the middle of my card screen is VERY annoying and too easy to press.

Laeuftbeidir

Brigby said:

@Laeuftbeidir @losdamianos
I just received an update from the developers. There are currently no plans to add SOI nor BFZ to the PvP deck format

And what would you call the upcoming nodes of power?

Brigby

@Laeuftbeidir
Ah, apologies for the confusion. I must have tagged you in the wrong response. SOI or BFZ are not going to be added to the "Standard" format any time in the future, however there are some older events that will be returning to the event schedule.