Upcoming New Feature: Booster Crafting (5/25/17)

span_argoman

It's fairly straightforward to deduce that the reason only Amonkhet packs will convert to Standard tokens is to avoid the huge caches of duplicates built up in the previous eras of excess from warping the Standard environment.

With the split into Standard and Legacy tokens and AKH duplicates only to Standard, I don't see an issue with converting existing duplicates into tokens since Standard looks to be the competitive format moving forward.

Am hoping the new system will provide non-duplicate cards instead of just a reroll but we will see.

wink

I expect that there will be exactly 1 new card in the pack. What I suspect is that D3 will think that they will look more "generous" if they give us more cards, and thus we will get a 5 card (or 10 card, or 100 card, or X card) pack with always exactly 1 new card, and X-1 dupes, and they will not understand that opening 99 dupes and 1 new card is 100 times more feel-bad than getting just 1 new card with no dupes. 

Phase

The decision to not force-convert dupes to runes, but instead allow dupe hoarders like me to get some new cards that are not useable in PvP and coalition challenges, is actually an elegant compromise! At first I was bummed I couldn't get a ton of standard cards for nothing but after thinking about it more I think this is a great solution that allowed hoarders to get something for their efforts without gaining a big leg up on everyone else in standard. I applaud D3 for coming up with something that I would normally put beyond their recent level of performance regarding thorny issues like this. Great job. 

As for the boosters, I think it's a great idea. It sounds like the simplest thing to do will just offer one-card packs which contain a rare, mythic or masterpiece the player does not own. There's no need to stuff them with filler cards we probably already have. Obviously the exchange rate will be expensive for dupes to tokens, but I think having that to save up for will help players get some things going for them while stockpiling their 400 jewels for their next elite pull. 

Overall I am pretty optimistic about the feature. Can't wait to get more details. And @Brigby
you are right in that we are always asking for better communication! Thank you for reaching out to us early about the feature. I hope you guys will take our feedback seriously as we do still care a great deal about the game and we want it to remain something fun and fresh for a long time. We wouldn't tell you if we didn't care. 

majincob

Brigby said:

@PersonMan

I can understand the concern, which is why we added this line at the bottom:

Booster Crafting is still in the early phases of development, so some details may change along the way. Having said that though, we wanted to let you know about the feature as soon as we could!

Increasing the line of communication between the players and the developers is something I've heard time and time again as being desired from players, and it's something I'm striving to improve with early announcements like these. Unfortunately it's an inherent risk that details might change after announcing them so early in development.

We've spent many a meeting discussing how to address the issue of hoarded duplicates, and this was the result of those discussions. At this point, there is a very high chance we are sticking with the original announced plan, but we just can't 100% guarantee it. If for some unforeseen reason we need to change that plan, I will do my best to communicate that ahead of time. 

Thank you @Brigby for the honest response and I truly do appreciate you bringing this to us as soon as you did since this level of info doesn't typically reach us until a couple days before the changes happen.

At this point, hoarding packs is part of the fun for me so I don't mind waiting a few more weeks to see more details of the system and get reassured that plans are generally the same before opening my packs.

Brigby said:

@Laeuftbeidir
Keeping in mind that it is still in development, and certain details might change before release, last I heard was that players will have the ability to customize their boosters, in order to hone in on what kind of card they're looking for.

Can you relay to the team that using ambiguous marketspeak that falsely raises hopes of the players has a backlash effect that reduces trust in and credibility of the company? This sounds suspiciously like being able to "target" certain mythics/masterpieces in the Masterpiece collection packs which added to the perception of negative value that led to the not.another.dime movement and the coalition name change protest.

What players want is to be able to get new cards to play with (cards not previously in their collection). Preferably with a way to guarantee getting a specific card they want. Opening packs isn't enjoyable unless you feel like there is a substantial chance there will be something new and fun in it. By the very nature of the system as players get more entrenched that becomes less and less of a possibility. The new dupe system is purportedly a way to make sure that even if you get a dupe you don't feel too bad because it moves you incrementally closer to the cards you really want. If you spend all your dupes and hopes and dreams and get yet another dupe or something like lightning greaves for your month(s) of anticipation it will achieve an effect counter to its stated goal.

I can see two possible ways to avoid the potential feel-bad problem. Either have a system where the player is guaranteed non-duplicates (preferably with a way to get specific cards), or make the conversion rate very generous so that players can have many chances to pull the lever so they feel they have a good chance at something new AND will have multiple tries at getting it. (Hint: 2 Mythic pulls from a limited pool of mythics/masterpieces a month is not generous)

Sorin81

Really glad to see some sort of conversion system coming. 
Reserving all opinions of the specific system until after I've seen it for myself. 
Pessimistic side showing now, can't even begin to imagine what sort of bugs will come with this.

One thing is certain though, runes will be even harder to come by for those who desperately need them. 

"So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Steeme

Really nice compromise to allow converting all existing dupes into non-standard tokens.

Since a compromise was made for hoarders, why not a compromise for players oblivious to the impending crafting system?  A Rune --> Non-Standard crafting exchange should be set up for all players and allow them to acquire crafting tokens up to a set limit.

IM_CARLOS

I like the idea to complete my collection, but why do we need two new currencies for that? We already got not so common jewels.
 

So what about converting dupes into jewels, let’s say: 

common=1, uncommon=5, rare=20, mystic=50, masterpiece=100 

and then give packs wich only include non-dupes like: 

10jewels=3 common, 50=3 x ucommon, 200=3 x rare, 300 x 1 mystic and 1000 x masterpiece you don’t own.

D3 already selling jewel packs á 100 Dollar for 550 jewels and 2000 crystals. 

If you would like to split between Standard/Legacy just make two different offers, and if you are limited to three options per offer-box by design, cut the lowest, so Legacy get mystic, rare, uncommon and Standard get masterpiece, mystic, rare.

So you don’t have to collect another two currencies, six (!) in whole game, wich can’t convert into another easily.

You keep the players buying, beginners buy crystal-packs and veterans buy jewels and everyone has the chance to complete their collection. And as side effect it would make jewels more precious to every player.

Converting Ressources like 1000 Runes = 1 crystal and so on would be the cherry on the cake.

There is a reason, that in real life is only one currency per country.

norjee

No mention of how many tokens you get / are needed right? So anything is possible. I don't imagine this thing will improve much.. Yeah it'll clear your dupes dupes, and that's it, it'll marginally help getting more/better cards. As long as specific cards are sold for top $$ there is no incentive of making specific cards easier to obtain (and that's imho the problem with this game compared to magic, in magic you can trade/buy specific cards that won't cost you an arm and a leg to get a synergistic deck). So i'd not be surprised if a dupe will give you 1 token, 10 (or even more) tokens get you a new card of the same rarity. With way worse numbers to get something of higher rarity.

In that highly optimistic scenario you get 1 more random (hopefully non dupe) card for each ten dupes you collect. If half your draws are dupes that means getting 20 cards give you 21 (while getting rid of dupes). 5% more cards, that's actually worse than any one of the new diminishing rewards.

Kyokudai

Here's what I'm hoping for: 

Since they seem hesitant to remove the random element from gaining cards, I would think the following would match.

Choose Rarity: (Uncommon, Rare, Mythic)

Choose Set: (Origins, etc...)

Choose Color:

You get a single card pack much like the "rare with a chance at mythic" packs we had a while back that gives you a random card matching your specifications that is guaranteed to not be in your collection of cards.

The primary decider on the amount of the new currency is the rarity, and the set would determine if it costs standard currency or legacy currency.  The color seems to match what they've been playing around with in terms of the color packs.  This would give you quite a bit more flexibility toward targeting a card.  Happy land would be a card category e.g. Choose Type (Creature, Spell, Support)

That would feel like I'm crafting a pack to target something I'm missing for my super sweet discard deck that is missing a key card.  Or whatever deck you want to build.  (I have a soft spot for building a discard deck, but I don't have the pieces for it).  Right now it feels like I can't target a deck, I have to build a whatever.dec.

In terms of conversions, it would be nice to have a 3-1 for mythic, so if I have 3 dupe mythics to blow up, I would get enough currency to try for a mythic pack.

Rares wouldn't have quite as good a conversion rate, but maybe it'd be okay to still have a 3-1 in terms of getting a rare quality card.  Same with uncommon?

That feels optimistic for the conversion rates though...

Dropspot

My approach to that is: I don't expect much, so don't get upset.

In fact I am expecting something that we would want the convert to runes back.

At least all the time they make something we asked for they transform it so much we always end up wanting to going back to what we had before...

IM_CARLOS

Dropspot said:

My approach to that is: I don't expect much, so don't get upset.

In fact I am expecting something that we would want the convert to runes back.

At least all the time they make something we asked for they transform it so much we always end up wanting to going back to what we had before...

"Optimistic", but right!

Dsagent

Great. I just got 2x duplicates of a card I have in a single pack.

Corn_Noodles

I think this system is a step in the right direction, but a few tweaks might be warranted.

Runes are very valuable for a new player in order to level up and compete. Duplicates were a source of runes for new players, and this should be addressed.

My thought is this: Standard duplicates become tokens for booster crafting and non-Standard duplicates become runes. This could then be combined with adding new non-Standard 3-card boosters that cost runes. This booster would have a weight on it for providing cards that you don't already have.

span_argoman

Corn Noodles said:

I think this system is a step in the right direction, but a few tweaks might be warranted.

Runes are very valuable for a new player in order to level up and compete. Duplicates were a source of runes for new players, and this should be addressed.

My thought is this: Standard duplicates become tokens for booster crafting and non-Standard duplicates become runes. This could then be combined with adding new non-Standard 3-card boosters that cost runes. This booster would have a weight on it for providing cards that you don't already have.

Why not just ask them to add an option to convert tokens into Runes also to give players the choice how they want to use them?

Delnai

Corn Noodles said:

I think this system is a step in the right direction, but a few tweaks might be warranted.

Runes are very valuable for a new player in order to level up and compete. Duplicates were a source of runes for new players, and this should be addressed.

My thought is this: Standard duplicates become tokens for booster crafting and non-Standard duplicates become runes. This could then be combined with adding new non-Standard 3-card boosters that cost runes. This booster would have a weight on it for providing cards that you don't already have.

Are dupes really s significant source of runes for a new player? It's been a while since I was new, but I remember getting the vast majority of runes from story and QB. Even with QB gone, the number of runes from dupes hardly seems significant compared to those from story and events (including TG). 

Tilwin90

If there's no duplicates, yet you cannot choose rarity, it will be interesting to see what I can drop in those boosters. I still have 3-4 commons and 3 uncommons to get, all from Amonkhet. Other than that, I have all commons/uncommons in the game. It'll be interesting to see what they can put in those boosters so it isn't a dupe!

wereotter

Tilwin90 said:

If there's no duplicates, yet you cannot choose rarity, it will be interesting to see what I can drop in those boosters. I still have 3-4 commons and 3 uncommons to get, all from Amonkhet. Other than that, I have all commons/uncommons in the game. It'll be interesting to see what they can put in those boosters so it isn't a dupe!

New cards doesn't mean non-duplicate cards. The wording here is very carefully chosen as to imply no duplicates without actually stating that. 

ElfNeedsFood

I was thinking about this a bit and Marvel Puzzle Quest has a "favorites" feature where you pick a few characters you want more covers for (dupes are a good thing in that game), and it will steer "bonus" covers that you get randomly to those characters. Perhaps we will be able to "favor" missing cards and tip the scales a bit without outright crafting garaunteed cards... 

arNero

Well, finally those dupes have a certain use. Still,

speakupaskanswer said:

1) Still seems kinda unfair that people who hoarded dupe have an advantage (which includes myself, so I'm not jealous). An auto-convert to runes still seems more fair but I guess that would create even more of a backlash now.

Indeed. Those who had previously converted duplicates to Mana runes now are more likely to rage given that they have lost a good portion of cards for currency they can get by playing Story mode over and over.

However:

What happens to existing duplicate cards?
Until the release of Booster Crafting, the option to turn your duplicate cards into Mana Runes will remain in the Cards menu. When Booster Crafting is released, we'll automatically convert existing duplicates into crafting tokens. Afterwards, duplicate cards will be automatically converted when opening packs.

Opening boosters is one of the best parts of Magic - and we want to make that experience even better by providing a way to get guaranteed new cards. We also want to keep PvP competition fair for all players. In order to do so, we’re introducing two token types. Duplicate cards from the newest card set (Amonkhet) will provide tokens used to craft boosters from "Standard" card sets (currently Origins, Kaladesh, Aether Revolt and Amonkhet), and duplicate cards from older card sets will let you craft boosters from sets outside of “Standard.”

Booster Crafting is still in the early phases of development, so some details may change along the way. Having said that though, we wanted to let you know about the feature as soon as we could! We expect to launch Booster Crafting in an update in late June.  Stay tuned - we’ll post more details before the release of Booster Crafting!

I'm in particular ambivalent on this. On one hand, it does help curb some rage from those who have converted their cards to mana runes before this feature, but on the other hand, this also curbs people who hoards duplicates from day one, preventing them from benefiting too much from the system but at the same time letting them get better chance of completing their old sets (at present, particularly ORG and KLD block which are standard legal). I think I'd love to see how this plays out in the end; not too optimistic, but maybe there's some good in the end.

tfg76

I actually think this would be much more elegantly solved if the duplicates were used to craft boosters of whatever set they were in.

It seems really weird that new duplicates from KLD/AER, which in fact still have active (and standard!) events, can't generate any standard-legal cards. It means there is absolutely no point in playing e.g. Emergency Ordinances, as I already have all the rares from AER, and a duplicate just means I can craft more cards I can't use.