How much feedback is necessary?

13

Comments

  • BlackWidow70
    BlackWidow70 Posts: 30 Just Dropped In
    As many have suggested since this started, if they were willing to add a new token (and the "Vintage Heroic" shows they were); what was the big deal about adding a "Vintage Legends" token with the vaulted 4 stars in it?  For those that want to swim in the non-vaulted pool then great, the LL and CL tokens have you covered.  For those that sill want to obtain covers for the vaulted covers the new token would have you covered.  

    That aside, for what it's worth, myself, my spouse, and our daughter (the latter two who aren't active on these forums) all three dislike the vaulting....
  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2017
    Arix90 said:
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Yeah, honestly...if I played this game from scratch and saw the awesomeness of Peggy, then tried to look up how to get her and the answer was "Pffth, no." I'd be disappointed.

    Another point I've made is...as you can probably guess, Lady Thor is my favourite Marvel character. If I joined in fresh, I'd see she was in this game and have absolutely no way to reliably get her. I mean hey, if I can flip 3* Thor four times and get lucky in some PvPs maybe I'll get her to 13 covers. Or I could flip 3* Thor once and spend 1,200CP to buy her covers individually.

    That would really suck for a new player.
    If you were to set peggy and psylocke and your only bonus heroes you could still cover her eventually
    Eventually, more like almost forever.
  • Eddiemon
    Eddiemon Posts: 1,470 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Yeah, honestly...if I played this game from scratch and saw the awesomeness of Peggy, then tried to look up how to get her and the answer was "Pffth, no." I'd be disappointed.

    Another point I've made is...as you can probably guess, Lady Thor is my favourite Marvel character. If I joined in fresh, I'd see she was in this game and have absolutely no way to reliably get her. I mean hey, if I can flip 3* Thor four times and get lucky in some PvPs maybe I'll get her to 13 covers. Or I could flip 3* Thor once and spend 1,200CP to buy her covers individually.

    That would really suck for a new player.
    How does that make vaulting suck?

    Now you can set her as favourite and get her 1 time in 20. Under the old system it would be one time in 40. The new system is way better for those scenarios.




  • SpringSoldier
    SpringSoldier Posts: 265 Mover and Shaker
    Can we agree that people can want different things? The best system is the one the satisfies more number of people (you can never truly make everybody happy). A Vintage Legends token (with cp, not just something you can buy!) would mean best of both worlds: those who want to level up a few characters fast and don't care much which ones go for the Latest/Classic Legends; those who want to level up all characters slowly go for Vintage Legends. It will cost us more ISO and more rooster spots, but it's our problem.

    Now, if you want Winter Soldier AND Medusa leveled up more quickly, it would still be pretty hard, but then again there has to be some frustration and some incentive to spend money. The paying customer would still have an advantage over the non-paying ones.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Moon Roach said:

    Q: How much feedback is necessary?

    Perpetual A: At least one more post than there is now.

    QFT!  Continue to fight the good fight!
  • DrDevilDinosaur
    DrDevilDinosaur Posts: 436 Mover and Shaker
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    I think it's less about "forgetting they hate it" and more that they realise they've spent months complaining and it's not going away. They just make their peace.
    I believe the exact wording is "this too shall pass" - apparently a favourite phrase around the Demi office

  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
    It has been months since vaulting occurred and I have not champed a single vaulted character from FREE sources.  That is enough feed back right there.
  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
    There is no such thing as enough feedback, unless by feedback you mean $$. It's just a PR talk: "Yeas we are listening. Yes, we will fix bugs. Yes, we will improve this issues. Yes, we are working on improving player experience."

    In reality, guy in charge thinks about earning more money, not satisfying customers. Whales bring enough profit, that others can be ignored.
  • Daiches
    Daiches Posts: 1,252 Chairperson of the Boards
    Alsmir said:
    There is no such thing as enough feedback, unless by feedback you mean $$. It's just a PR talk: "Yeas we are listening. Yes, we will fix bugs. Yes, we will improve this issues. Yes, we are working on improving player experience."

    In reality, guy in charge thinks about earning more money, not satisfying customers. Whales bring enough profit, that others can be ignored.
    If you think they are still earning the same kind of money with Lastest being SL/DocOck, you are sorely mistaken. Those two are hurting their bottom line a lot more than any other complaint. But it is a good thing, as now they might have to do something about Classics (which ironically feature more 5s than 4s)
  • SpringSoldier
    SpringSoldier Posts: 265 Mover and Shaker
    @JHawkInc

    You are so right! I feel like crying whenever I see someone with a champed Winter Soldier in PVP.
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    The most disappointing thing is that while they insisted "You can still get them from other sources", at the same time they've the most common and attainable other source (PvE progression reward) to about 1 in 4 events.

    So that's about 26 tokens per year for almost 40 characters. (who in the same vein become increasingly marginalized by hardly ever appearing as essential characters)


  • Zalasta
    Zalasta Posts: 307 Mover and Shaker
    Vaulting is good and bad. I've got just under half of the 4 stars championed and vaulting has made it much easier to get the latest 4 stars covered and championed much more quickly. That said, it has significant drawbacks. I've been forced into hoarding to allow the current crop of  4-stars to rotate out to ensure that I get the new 4 stars that I don't already have championed, or fully covered (and don't plan to champion).

    My previously championed 4 stars have barely moved an inch since vaulting. It has effectively made increased champion levels unavailable (where some of the best rewards are). Most of my 4 stars are level 270-280 and that's the level they'll likely stay until the end of time. That's the part I resent most about vaulting. 

    There have been several proposed solutions, including leaving the latest 4 stars in the latest legends, while putting the older 4 stars (perhaps on a rotating basis) in the classic legends. This is the solution that I'd really like to see implemented. It gives me access to all characters to allow me to build my roster as I see fit. Rotating the classic 4 & 5 stars would solve the dilution issue as well.

    I have been hitting Heroes for Hire for a few select classic characters that aren't fully covered, but it's expensive, and slow.

    I'd definitely like to see some changes in this area to address the concerns expressed on this forum. The current system doesn't need to be abandoned, but it could be easily tweaked to give your customers more choice in how they develop their rosters.
  • Fightmastermpq
    Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    What I really like about vaulting is that beforehand I always felt like I was in this perpetual state of catching up, and always a bit behind those who started a year before me.  Now I feel as if the playing field has been leveled and I'm being equally rewarded for my current efforts without being hurt as much by the time I missed out on for that first year that I wasn't playing.
  • animaniactoo
    animaniactoo Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
    Honestly, I think it really just needs to act like the Disney vault. Yeah yeah, they put it away. But you know if you wait a couple of years, it'll be available again.


    My only wish is that they rotate back in more regularly than a couple of years...

    There was some good discussion about that kind of possibility on a thread recent - I'll try and remember which one and come back to link to it.
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Honestly, this is the thing that's going to scupper people.
    Next week Peggy Carter is boosted, one of the best 4*s going. She's vaulted. Anyone who hadn't managed to champ her before her vaulting is going to have such a hard time in PvP.

    Sure it's a lot easier to get the new characters up and running, and I do appreciate that. It's nice having a character come out and then within a couple of months they're champed and usable as opposed to the old system whereby I still don't have 13 covers for Moonknight yet...and only got more recently due to a couple of daily rewards.

    The problem is older 4*s are still really useful. And now there's no real way to get them effectively. 3* champ rewards take a long time and only give you 3 covers. Bonus heroes are too random and, again, slow.

    I've said before, people like me who champed or 13-covers all the vaulted heroes benefit from vaulting, but anyone else really suffers. And I'm absolutely in the minority here.


    I appreciate you voicing your opinion, it seems less common for people to provide a counter view to a change they personally benefit from, and vice versa...  Kinda why I made it a point to mention I thought dropping roster based scaling was a positive move despite a reduction in rewards for me personally.  Objectivity is in short supply, and despite a singular instance I can point to, I'm sure I'm just as guilty as most.


    Unfortunately, I don't think anyone of consequence is listening, and we'll have to wait and let slow power creep devalue the 4* tier to the point where its made more available before getting some of these retired heroes adequately covered and leveled.

  • animaniactoo
    animaniactoo Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
    MissChinch said:
    animaniactoo said:
    Honestly, I think it really just needs to act like the Disney vault. Yeah yeah, they put it away. But you know if you wait a couple of years, it'll be available again.


    My only wish is that they rotate back in more regularly than a couple of years...

    There was some good discussion about that kind of possibility on a thread recent - I'll try and remember which one and come back to link to it.


    I've never heard of any notion that they would bring characters back once retired outta the latest 12...   For all practical purposes once retired those characters are stagnant...  good if they roll around as a featured character, so you can use em, and if you've got a shallow roster its nice when they're boosted...  but forget the whole idea of progressing them through champion levels, if you haven't done that before they've exited the featured 12 its a lost cause.


    I started the thread because the last thing that was said by the lead dev (on these forums) was that if there was enough feedback they would completely remove vaulting.  I didn't believe that for a second, nor do I agree they should just kill the idea completely... saying they would change the mechanics of it would have been much more believable...   So I created the thread specifically in response to that inane comment.


    Not only has vaulting dominated the vast majority of all feedback and comments on the forum, we've (unsurprisingly) not heard a peep from him since dumping that PR spiel. 

    I hear you - that was a rather nonsensical thing to promise. On the flip side, you have to remember that when they discuss feedback, they don't just mean here in the forum - they're talking an aggregate of forum comments, survey polling (the ones that pop-up in game), and CS tickets/complaints. We don't have any idea what they've gathered from those realms (although tbh I can't imagine it would be much different, or it would fall into one of two categories 1) not an invested enough player to find the forums and complain or 2) not bothered enough to take the action of filing a CS ticket, etc.), but the great likelihood is that they're weighing the number of complaints from all of those against the entire customer base and it's not "as big" of an issue for them when weighed that way.

    I did dig up the other thread I was talking about - it was an idea being tossed around here, but seemed like there was some interest from slightly higher up about it. Linking to the page where it gets into that.

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