**** Nick Fury (Director of S.H.I.E.L.D) ****

DrDevilDinosaur

undrtaker said:

I have Fury at 13 covers with 2 more stashed (1 expiring today), but not champed.
Is he worth it? I have 350k is, so can do it now, but at the expense of someone better who I can champ in a few days
have 18 champed 4* so it's not really a big deal either way I guess

I've seen a few people rate Fury as "mid tier" or "use when boosted" or similar. I think I'd agree with those ratings.

Fury's Blue remains unchanged, which is nice since that was his best ability previously. However keep in mind that traps in general were recently nerfed - if they are in the part of a row or column destroyed by a match -4 or -5 (but not included in the matched tiles), then they do not count as matched and will not trigger any "on match" effects.

Meanwhile both Yellow and Purple were changed. In both cases, the final numbers have been tuned down compared to their originals, but both abilities have also had reductions in "cost" which mean players are more likely to get the full effects.

He still has a (relatively) small health pool, which puts him pretty close to the bottom of the tier and styles him more as a glass cannon. By comparison, Coulson has a much beefer health pool which is more expected for his indirect Support style of character.

However, Fury doesn't really have any glass cannon style nukes and he feel a bit like a Support who needs assistance from another Support. As mentioned previously, he pairs well with Cloak & Dagger if they are being used to fuel Yellow. But consider that Cloak & Dagger's Yellow is already a strong AoE if you can keep the board clear, so it's probably only a combo I'd consider when Fury is boosted.

With all that said, I also agree that it's a good idea to champ everyone if possible. If you've got one of the latest 12 also in a position to champ, it might be a better choice. You'll be more likely to get additional covers for those over the coming months, whereas Fury could end up sitting at 272 for a while.

Jaedenkaal

Oh, also, the Yellow numbers are, if this is possible, even worse at fewer covers. At 3 covers, the Protect tile is a whopping strength 51, and Iron Man's single target damage is about 1207. And this is at level 276; it'd be even lower at 270.

What is the point of having a 4* power that only does 1200 damage, make a Protect tile that might as well not exist, and makes 2 Crit tiles??

@Brigby This power very badly needs numbers in its description so we can know for sure how bad different it is.

hopper1979

Jaedenkaal this is one of the few times I will disagree with you (I think you are one of the most astute people on this board for character analysis), the numbers are worse but the, but I think you are getting hung up on the wrong thing with his change to the yellow.  Yes all the numbers have been reduced but yellow is now 100% effective with only 10 ap, you had to collect 30 additional ap (5 in each other color) before to fire it for its maximum effect before.  This was never practical in game because nobody in their right mind will wait until they have all the ap conditions met then start casting the powers it was just too slow.  If you used yellow it was end of match to finish somebody now you can start right off the bat.  I might even argue if you kept the old stats with the new casting conditions his yellow would be broken.  With a 5star on your team the damage averages 10-20K depending on how many critical tiles are matched.  If you are playing on an all 4 or lower team 5-10K.  He is still support but a good 3 and he has a unique stun color which is nice as well.  On paper it is worse in practice it is now a very solid power.

Jaedenkaal

hopper1979 said:

Jaedenkaal this is one of the few times I will disagree with you (I think you are one of the most astute people on this board for character analysis), the numbers are worse but the, but I think you are getting hung up on the wrong thing with his change to the yellow.  Yes all the numbers have been reduced but yellow is now 100% effective with only 10 ap, you had to collect 30 additional ap (5 in each other color) before to fire it for its maximum effect before.  This was never practical in game because nobody in their right mind will wait until they have all the ap conditions met then start casting the powers it was just too slow.  If you used yellow it was end of match to finish somebody now you can start right off the bat.  I might even argue if you kept the old stats with the new casting conditions his yellow would be broken.  With a 5star on your team the damage averages 10-20K depending on how many critical tiles are matched.  If you are playing on an all 4 or lower team 5-10K.  He is still support but a good 3 and he has a unique stun color which is nice as well.  On paper it is worse in practice it is now a very solid power.

Ok well now you're making me blush. And technically it was only 20 extra AP (5 in each of 4 other colors).

Ok I'll keep trying this one some more. I guess 10 AP for a 2-turn stun, some damage, and 3 crit tiles isn't awful. That's 5 covers though. I maintain that at 3 covers you're throwing that 10 AP in the garbage.

I'm sure we can agree, though, that the description needs updating badly.

Dormammu

I think the reason the damage is low (when compared to other 4-star abilities) is the presence of the crit tile generation; those 3 tiles have the ability to tack on another 3-4k damage on top of what the ability already does. Add in the stun and board shake and I start seeing Fury's yellow as a value.

Jaedenkaal said:

I'm sure we can agree, though, that the description needs updating badly.

Yes, I agree with you. It's one of the poorest descriptions in the game.

hopper1979

No arguments here the yellow power is a must fully covered, there is not point to have it at 3 if you plan to use it, I missed you making that point earlier.  To me yellow is the must power on Fury, his blue and purple can now be switched depending on what team you are running.  I am running him 5/5/3, pink is going to C&D who is at 3/5/5 (I will take stun over aoe).  You are correct 20 ap extra I meant 30 total not 30 additional ap to his yellow cost:).   

It would be good to see an update with real numbers, but regardless, I look at his yellow as a 2 turn stun that does a bunch of other things for 10 ap, with the exception of Gemora and Iceman most stuns are 9-12 ap for 2 turns and typically deal less damage (Strange and Sandman a possible possible exceptions).  When paired with a yellow generator, especially C&D, who can maximize the chance of a crit tiles being matched upon cast, the damage is nothing to sneeze at.  I have been running him a lot since the change, I gave the damage ranges I have been seeing in an earlier post, I have hit 20k multiple times when casting his yellow and that is not boosted, but you need a 5 star on your team for this damage to be reached.  Once we get the numbers we can really discuss this power but it is a weird power because it is not guarantied to match any crit tiles, so the damage can vary dramatically.  I think it is ideal to compare his yellow to something it always does, which is a 2 turn stun (if maxed), and compare it to other stuns, trying to compare it to a damage power does not quit work.  If you compare it to the stuns in the game I think the argument could be made it is now one of the best stuns in the game now due to everything else it does.

Jaedenkaal

Ok for what it's worth, these are the Avenger Assemble numbers for 3-5 covers at level 276, experimentally tested. 

3 Covers:
Creates two strength 51 Protect tiles and two Critical tiles (estimated Str 50 at 270)
Deals 1207 damage to the target (estimated 1179 at 270) 

4 Covers:
Creates two strength 61 Protect tiles and two Critical tiles (estimated Str 50 at 270)
Deals 1207 damage to the target, and 390 to the enemy team (1597 to the main target)
(estimated 1179/381, 1560 to main at 270)

5 Covers:
Creates two strength 65 Protect tiles and three Critical tiles (estimated Str 64 at 270)
Deals 1486 damage to the target, and 743 to the enemy team (2229 to the main target)
(estimated 1451/723, 2174 to main at 270)
Stuns the target for 2 turns.

hopper1979

Can Fury get some love now that we have finally been able to see what he can do boosted and fixed.  If you are not convinced pair him with C&D and a somewhat leveled 5 star (I recommend OML) and cast his yellow.  Unbosted yellow is a excellent power boosted I have 1-shot 4's when he is boosted (+30K damage).  Between his blue and his yellow he is easily one of the higher damage dealers in 4 land.  He might not be as constants as the elites in 4-land but he can chew through a team on his own.  The more I play him the more I might put his yellow as the best stun in the game for cost and all its effects.  

Sandmaker

hopper1979 said:

Can Fury get some love now that we have finally been able to see what he can do boosted and fixed.  If you are not convinced pair him with C&D and a somewhat leveled 5 star (I recommend OML) and cast his yellow.  Unbosted yellow is a excellent power boosted I have 1-shot 4's when he is boosted (+30K damage).  Between his blue and his yellow he is easily one of the higher damage dealers in 4 land.  He might not be as constants as the elites in 4-land but he can chew through a team on his own.  The more I play him the more I might put his yellow as the best stun in the game for cost and all its effects.  

I've been playing with boosted fury this whole week so far. I agree that his yellow is amazing. But I still find the rest of his kit pretty lackluster, even boosted. The blue traps getting destroyed by AI 4-matches (instead of triggering) has really slowed down the ability and reduced its average damage. During the Mystique event, I ended up switching to (and finding better success with) 5/3/5 and using Mystique's blue to fuel his purple, which is more or less just an average nuke now.

But ultimately, I think what hurts him is a lack of a passive. The meta is just too fast for a slow character without a passive. Yes, I suppose you can speed him up with a yellow battery, but personally I feel like a decent character should be able to stand by itself when boosted.

DrDevilDinosaur

I still think Fury is middle of the pack. "Strong when boosted" isn't really a point that distinguishes him from the rest of the tier, because that's exactly what you expect when anyone is boosted.

I know there's some contention (still) around Yellow and Purple. While the abilities were mostly improved, they also both received some tweaking (down) on the numbers. For some people, the nerfed values outweigh the benefits of the buffed values. In my opinion, Yellow was undoubtedly buffed, although it's a little harder to say with Purple. As for Blue, it remained unchanged (fine, it was easily his best ability previously) but was hit by the nerf to traps across the board.

Then there's the matter of Fury's health. It's one of the lowest in the tier. He's designed as a glass canon damage dealer but his abilities lack the same punch as other, beefier, characters (ref. Moon Knight, Cyclops, Mordo).

hopper1979

The change to traps has hurt him, (did we ever get a good justification for that change?) I have actually been thinking of trying out 5/3/5 for that reason.  His pink is greatly improved now but it does not have the upper damage limit of his blue.  But that trap nurf, ugh.  Do not get me wrong he is not a top 10 4 star.  He is in the top half of 4's now, he is a weird character because he is a support that does not support in the classic sense, he supports by doing lots of damage very quickly, he is still slow, he need somebody to generate ap for him but once he can get rolling he is very dangerous especially on a team with 5-stars to maximize his yellow.  I might argue he is one of the top 3 damage dealers in 4 land.  Even if you decide not to feed him with a character 10 ap for yellow (especially how good it is now) makes him a viable character because of the control aspect of the yellow. 

His update was excellent, but it got overlooked for some reason, I guess everybody was excited that Psyloc got fixed as well, but people who have him championed should reexamine him, you will be pleasantly surprised how much damage he can do boosted or unboosted.  

Tiger_Wong

I agree with hopper. I think Fury is really good. He’s slow but hits hard and with 2 colors you normally don’t hit hard with, yellow and purple. His yellow is unquestionably the hardest hitting yellow in 4* land and his purple is one of the hardest hitting in the tier. 

Teamed with mockingbird, he’s fantastic. you don’t want to get hit with any of his powers, off-turn. 

I run him at 5/3/5. I find that I end up matching his trap tiles, more often than not. He’s just so good with mockingbird. I’m gonna champ her VERY soon and right now I’ve got her at lvl 250 4/4/5. When I champ her, I’ll run her at 5/5/3. 

Mock
Fury
Moonknight

mock
Fury
gamora

Mock
fury
hulkbuster

fury + Mockingbird is a great duo. 

hopper1979

I bet Mockingbird works well with him.  I am missing one cover in her so I have not  started leveling her yet.  Throw a 5 in with those two to maximize the critical tiles generated from the yellow band that team will be killer.

Rick_OShay

Play Fury with Rogue in the Prologue against goons who have yellow as their strongest color (many do).
Siphoned yellow nets you 6AP on matches, so just 2 matches and you'll be able to fire Fury's Avengers Assemble.
It's really quite entertaining. Heck, turn animations back on.

wingX

I have my Nick at 4/5/4 and received a yellow cover, I have decided not to champ him, but would like to know should I respec him to 5/5/3 or 5/4/4?

sambrookjm

wingX said:

I have my Nick at 4/5/4 and received a yellow cover, I have decided not to champ him, but would like to know should I respec him to 5/5/3 or 5/4/4?

You'll want Demolition at 5.  If you're not going to champ him (shortage of ISO?) I'd say make him 5/5/3.

wingX

sambrookjm said:

wingX said:

I have my Nick at 4/5/4 and received a yellow cover, I have decided not to champ him, but would like to know should I respec him to 5/5/3 or 5/4/4?

You'll want Demolition at 5.  If you're not going to champ him (shortage of ISO?) I'd say make him 5/5/3.

Thanks, I am reserving the ISO for better characters.

hopper1979

The must with Fury is having 5 in yellow, due to the change in blue demolition is not as good as it used to be, switch between pink and blue depending on your team make-up yellow is the must 5.

sinnerjfl

5/5/3, demolition was a little hurt by the traps not triggering on match-4's but purple was severely weakened when they re-worked him.

11 AP for 6k damage and a very weak strike tile? Not worth it.

zodiac339

sinnerjfl said:

5/5/3, demolition was a little hurt by the traps not triggering on match-4's but purple was severely weakened when they re-worked him.

11 AP for 6k damage and a very weak strike tile? Not worth it.

Well, before that, you got less (half as much I think?) damage up front and a CD that probably wasn’t going to resolve. Performance-wise, Fury was improved in Purple and Yellow both, compensating for the loss in trap utility.