Please nerf Eliminate the Competition

GrizzoMtGPQ
GrizzoMtGPQ Posts: 776 Critical Contributor
in MtGPQ General Discussion
Costs way too little with not even close to an appropriate damage to the PW.

https://mtgpq.info/cards/EliminateTheCompetition
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Comments

  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
    the theory i  think is the over use of it hurts you till your have so little life you are dead even with it if you dont pay attention the ai uses it like they use ob just keep picking it self with tiny hits doing half the job for you
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think the card is nicely designed as it is - you can't use it in creatureless ob, and using it in a deck without lifelink becomes suicidal - also the ai isn't using it properly. The alternative costs of losing health is a standalone feature of this card may.. I use it exclusively in sorin decks as the last possible solution - but even increasing the damage would be okay for me
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    Interesting. I have no real opinion at the moment, but I've never seen it actually played outside of that one PVE level in that one event I forget.
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    The AI seems to play it well, which is unusual
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think the question here needs to come down to "how much life is one mana worth?"

    In paper magic I think it's fair to say one mana is worth two life when you look at Phyrexian mana costs. Going from that perspective, and comparing this card to a similar effect in Fumigate, we can see a difference in mana costs of 15. If we go by the same conversion of one mana costs two life, then this needs only be adjusted to costing 10 life per creature you control. That doesn't even consider that one-sides wrath effects tend to cost more than global ones, but losing 30 life to kill all your opponent's creatures seems fair. 
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    Fumigate.. That's a tough comparison. That card has more use when your side of the board is empty (although you're paying zombies), ETC is useless in that case. But two life = 1 mana sounds fair.
    In the other hand - this card is a minor problem compared to RishkarsEx
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    This is the one rare I really need from KLD and don't have yet. I never see it played against me either so it's hard to make a judgement on it. It definitely seems powerful, and maybe even too powerful at 1 mana. The thing is tho, that the games you lose are often lost because you can't stick a creature to the table without it getting shot, and EtC isn't going to solve that problem for you, is it?
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    Right. Obviously Fumigate isn't an exact comparison but it seemed the closest thing we have. Though even Great Aurora and Displacement Wave are both in that 15 mana range. So that's just the basis for my thoughts. 

    Edit: even if we compare it to casting three copies of To the Slaughter, that's still 15 mana, so 30 life for the discrepancy still seems fair. 
  • GrizzoMtGPQ
    GrizzoMtGPQ Posts: 776 Critical Contributor
    If you ever see a deck with it you may reconsider. If you want to start trolling the meta put it in every deck along with some draw. The AI plays it very well and gets to wipe your hard earned creatures out with 1 mana. When you're back to square one, he has all his creatures and just a nominal amount of damage to show for it, you may start singing a different tune.

    I like the idea of bumping it up to 10 damage: still playable but with a definite bite.
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    I rarely see it played, and rarely use it myself. I have enough 3 and 5 mana kill spells in my black decks that a 1 mana kill spell that depends on my having creatures out AND enough life to survive is too much drawback compared to what else is at my disposal. So it's fine to me. It was a card that I thought I was going to use more but rarely sees play outside of Black NoP node and Ratc 2.2.
  • EDHdad
    EDHdad Posts: 609 Critical Contributor
    It hits hexproof creatures, so it's an auto-include in any black deck with creatures as far as I'm concerned.  Is it ridiculous?  Maybe.  Is it more ridiculous than Imprison in the Moon?  Or Olivia?  Or Emrakul?  Or Startled Awake into Rattlechains into Startled Awake into Rattlechains?  Titan's Presence?  Or Deadlock Trap?  Suppression Bonds?  Prism Array?   Insidious Will?  Infinite Obliteration?  Hixus Prison Warden?  Mindwrack Demon?  The fact that Nahiri's Wrath doesn't make the caster discard any cards?  Or the fact that none of the cards previously mentioned are green?

    Now that Ornithopter has vigilance, you're going to want all the removal you can get.
  • AngelForge
    AngelForge Posts: 325 Mover and Shaker
    @GrizzoMtGPQ
    So, you played against a deck that had that card in it's deck, you lost and now you're demanding a nerf for that card?

    So, what about crush of the tentacle or displacement wave?
    Same horrible outcome for your side. Should they have life payment than as well? You don't need creatures to cast them.

    It's always bad if the opponent has creatures out and you have to deal with that immediately, at least in platinum.

    I think there are more urgent needs on the list of cards that need a nerf than this card.

    But for the sake of the topic:
    Increasing the life loss would be a bad idea. 15 life is already a lot (when you have 3 creatures out) and you often have to use removals for one creature out. 
    A lot of events are enraged today, so these 15 life loss become 30. I don't think I have to show you what happens when you double that life loss.

    So, increasing the mana cost is the only way to go, IMO.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    EDHdad said:
    It hits hexproof creatures, so it's an auto-include in any black deck with creatures as far as I'm concerned. 
    Why on EARTH would you want to put creatures in a black deck? :P
  • EDHdad
    EDHdad Posts: 609 Critical Contributor
    @shteev - You want Oath of Liliana to bait their removal spells, and also to bring back the Prized Amalgams / Scrapheap Scroungers which you discarded with Behold the Beyond, or with Liliana's 1st ability.
  • hawkyh1
    hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    I think the cost of 5 life per creature you control is
    fair. as it stands it only sees use in niche areas.
    it's more inflexible than requiring a creature to use.
    for example using all 3 creatures slots when your
    opponent has none is now a move that requires a
    decision. removing a single problematic creature
    eg baral, olivia is costly at 15 life. the card looks
    cheap on paper because it's inflexible compared
    to straight forward removal cards.

    HH
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    shteev said:
    EDHdad said:
    It hits hexproof creatures, so it's an auto-include in any black deck with creatures as far as I'm concerned. 
    Why on EARTH would you want to put creatures in a black deck? :P

    Sometimes I like to play zombies too. What's wrong? 
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    shteev said:
    Why on EARTH would you want to put creatures in a black deck? :P
    The new matchmaking system matches me against ob decks with creatures on a regular base now.. That's confusing.
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    It should be mentioned that after the next update, this will be the only "cheap" removal black has that's "Standard legal", as well as (I think) the only one that'll hit hexproof.
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor
    madwren said:
    It should be mentioned that after the next update, this will be the only "cheap" removal black has that's "Standard legal", as well as (I think) the only one that'll hit hexproof.


    Very good point.

    I've had the card for ages, but have not used it beyond mastery.

    Black typically does not have an issue with removal, so it only solves the Hexproof problem which is not a widespread concern.

    For L2 I run zombies with defender, and I can run Fleshbag if necessary for indirect removal.

    For T2, I use heavy energize with Deadlock trap so I either perma-disable or grief the first creature indirectly.  I only run To The Slaughter as removal in that deck since I have BTB as well.

    This will all change with block-restrictions though.  I hope the new set gives us options other than more board wipes and cards that the AI will just use to drag the match on with.

  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    shteev said:
    EDHdad said:
    It hits hexproof creatures, so it's an auto-include in any black deck with creatures as far as I'm concerned. 
    Why on EARTH would you want to put creatures in a black deck? :P
    Not all of us have Gonti heart /Dynavolt Tower? 

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