AI gem swaps

hawkyh1

I don't think the ai knows what gems are coming. I think
that the wild swings in mana is frustrating certain players
more than others. these swings happen to both the ai
and the player. I think they might be weighted to occur
more often than the probabilities suggest. (maybe this
makes a more exciting game?)

HH

Steeme

While I disagree that the AI is "cheating" in any way, I do agree that it is sometimes a little too optimized for my taste.  Being able to make multiple primary color swaps per turn while leaving me with nothing but loyalty swaps at clutch moments is quite frustrating.

There is no discernible pattern though. The only consistent theory is that if you are running a lower quality deck than your opponent you can get quite easily overrun.  The only solution for improving gameplay is to improve matchmaking.

Most of my event losses in the past few weeks have been from players submitting decks that have not been modified for objectives.  There were only a few losses to decks where I spotted at least one card that could be used to satisfy an objective.

toastie

Steeme said:

While I disagree that the AI is "cheating" in any way, I do agree that it is sometimes a little too optimized for my taste.  Being able to make multiple primary color swaps per turn while leaving me with nothing but loyalty swaps at clutch moments is quite frustrating.

There is no discernible pattern though. The only consistent theory is that if you are running a lower quality deck than your opponent you can get quite easily overrun.  The only solution for improving gameplay is to improve matchmaking.

Most of my event losses in the past few weeks have been from players submitting decks that have not been modified for objectives.  There were only a few losses to decks where I spotted at least one card that could be used to satisfy an objective.

I believe the suggested gem is the one that the AI would take

Ohboy

toastie said:

Steeme said:

While I disagree that the AI is "cheating" in any way, I do agree that it is sometimes a little too optimized for my taste.  Being able to make multiple primary color swaps per turn while leaving me with nothing but loyalty swaps at clutch moments is quite frustrating.

There is no discernible pattern though. The only consistent theory is that if you are running a lower quality deck than your opponent you can get quite easily overrun.  The only solution for improving gameplay is to improve matchmaking.

Most of my event losses in the past few weeks have been from players submitting decks that have not been modified for objectives.  There were only a few losses to decks where I spotted at least one card that could be used to satisfy an objective.

I believe the suggested gem is the one that the AI would take

It's not. I've tested this many times. 

toastie

Ohboy said:

toastie said:

I believe the suggested gem is the one that the AI would take

It's not. I've tested this many times. 

Interesting. How did you test this?

shteev

FWIW I've had a couple of match 7s drop in. I was surprised to see them both! The last one occured recently when the battle log had been installed so I was able to check it.

Thing is, tho... when you crunch the numbers, how many gems drop down per game? Per day? Per year? I've been playing over a year...

[edit] yknow, if we able to EXPORT the battle logs, we could go some way towards putting this issue to bed. We don't get to see the state of the board each move within the battle log, but a good player who's looking for cascades will get more mana than the AI who's turning match 5s into match4s over the long run.

Ohboy

toastie said:

Ohboy said:

toastie said:

I believe the suggested gem is the one that the AI would take

It's not. I've tested this many times. 

Interesting. How did you test this?

Mirror match, I match something on a top corner instead of the suggested gem. 

AI doesn't take its own suggestion. 

ChowDerHead

Ohboy said:

toastie said:

Ohboy said:

toastie said:

I believe the suggested gem is the one that the AI would take

It's not. I've tested this many times. 

Interesting. How did you test this?

Mirror match, I match something on a top corner instead of the suggested gem. 

AI doesn't take its own suggestion. 

I've experienced quite the opposite, however, with a caveat.  When the AI makes a suggestion which I then ignore in favor of a different match, my experience thus far is that the AI will consistently take the match that it suggested a moment ago.

However, if my defiance results in a gem arrangement which offers a superior match for the AI - a more appropriate color match, a four-fer, or a fiver, for example - the AI will not take it's original suggestion and go with the more favorable match.

In addition, I have encountered a few "defiant matches" which actually resulted in a rather favorable cascade.  Being the ghost-in-the-machine cynic that I am, it's my belief that the AI is intentionally attempting to mislead me away from the cascade.  So ultimately, I believe that the AI does have insight as to what's coming next and I need to decide if I want to take the red pill gem, or the blue pill gem.

Of course, all of this is bereft of any sort of scientific method and based purely on my emotional opinion of the game AI being a Cheatyface.

octal9

I'll repeat this until I'm blue in the face, if I have to: the AI does not take into consideration the inbound gems when determining a match. In fact, the AI CAN NOT take into consideration the inbound gems because they haven't even been generated yet.

When it is deciding how to make a match, it assigns scores to the following: 
1) line bonus / shape bonus when a match is created. 5 > 4 > 3, but the calculation on this appeared to be flawed - we've all seen it turn match5s into match4s. It's possible this flaw is on purpose to make the AI a beat easier to handle. I also believe this gives the baseline score for a match, which is why you'll see Koth take a blue match4 over a red match3.
2) its own color bonuses and your PW's color bonuses
3) whether a gem is an activated gem,
4) whether a gem is a support,
5) whether a gem is energized

but I have all this circumstantial evidence that says otherwise so why should I believe you?

You don't have to if you don't want to. But I trust my source more than I trust what everyone's gut seems to be saying, because that source proves everyone's gut feeling is incorrect.

EDHdad

It's silly to think the AI knows of cascades 27 rows above the board, when it doesn't even see cascades sitting in front of its own face.

As for the AI suggesting gems different from those it would pick, the AI prioritizes matches which would pop your supports or activate gems.  So, it might be suggesting the same for you "if I were you, I'd totally try to break my reinforced Mirrorpool."  But when it's their turn, they're trying to break your Mirrorpool, not theirs. The AI also seems to enjoy matching the colors of the opponent over matching its own colors.

In the very early days of the game, the developers acted like this was some sort of clever strategy - to try to break your opponent's supports through matching their gems.  Ruin your opponent's chances of getting a color match by matching their gems first.  Most human players don't do this, unless they're desperately trying to get rid of a 1-shield Hixus or if they're playing against Koth and there's a red match on board.

Gormhaus

I just played another match of the luckiest ai ever. The ai should be buying lottery tickets its so lucky. I wish there was an upload battle log function.

julianus

Gormhaus said:

I just played another match of the luckiest ai ever. The ai should be buying lottery tickets its so lucky. I wish there was an upload battle log function.

There is, sort of, in that you can take a series of screenshots of the Battle Log and then post them online.

Although it's probably too late for that, now.

Gormhaus

There should be a battle log summary for each match. #swaps for #mana displayed for each pw. 

span_argoman

I doubt the AI cheats. It's so dumb that it can sometimes miss a 5-match of its own colour if the 5-match was generated by its own gem converters. And we're not event talking about the regular off-colour 5-matches they miss.

The AI cascades can be frustrating sometimes but most of the time I experience that I cascade more than the AI. And that's including random cascades from the heavens which I get as opposed to the AI.

Just a small tip on gem matching. Even if two matches seemingly give you the same mana, check if one of them has a (higher) chance of cascades from the heavens. Let's say you have a horizontal Black match (hB) and a vertical Black match (vB). And say vB looks like this
--Sky--
BUW
BRR
GBL

While hB looks like
--Sky--
RUB
BBR
ULW

There are only 6 different types of gems which can be generated from the sky. So vB gives a 16.7% chance to get a free Red match.

Say instead vB was
--Sky--
BUU
BRR
GBL

You now have a 30.6% chance of an extra match (whether Red or Blue). Spotting these things instead of letting the AI match the superior choice might make the difference in your cascade from the heavens experience.

toastie

Ohboy said:

Mirror match, I match something on a top corner instead of the suggested gem. 

AI doesn't take its own suggestion. 

Once the board changes it is recalculated. Also about 90% sure it takes your color and opponent's color into account, also probably mana gains.

Monkeynutts85

It is garbage. whatever u call it. since 2.0 the game is worse. im tired of watching the ai have one turn of greatness and u lose.

u cant recover in the stupid enrage event that always are on.

i seldomly play anymore. i dont even bother in events. its just plain boring.....oh im winning.......ai turn..... match...match...match...olivia....tyrant...u lose    yay! 50 runes....

DuskPaladin

ChowDerHead said:

Ohboy said:

toastie said:

Ohboy said:

toastie said:

I believe the suggested gem is the one that the AI would take

It's not. I've tested this many times. 

Interesting. How did you test this?

Mirror match, I match something on a top corner instead of the suggested gem. 

AI doesn't take its own suggestion. 

I've experienced quite the opposite, however, with a caveat.  So ultimately, I believe that the AI does have insight as to what's coming next and I need to decide if I want to take the red pill gem, or the blue pill gem.

You always take the red gems vs Koth or you'll be feeling like Neo out if the Matrix for the first time, after that asswhooping =P

Monkeynutts85

One turn ... matched 3 green gems that fell perfectly for a 5 red gem match and the rest is all one turn.....

2W | 2U | 13R | 3G | 4L

Boggart Brute was cast by opponent
Opponent gained an Extra Swap
Opponent used ability Reshape the Land

24R | 3G | 6L
12R | 1L

Urias's Champion was cast by opponent
Scrapheap Scrounger was cast by opponent
Sword of the Animist was cast by opponent

this is soooooo frequent since the patch.

//Removed Screenshot Displaying In-Game Player's Name. Added Summary -Brigby

Volrak

I wonder if we'll ever have a patch where nobody at all is convinced the AI was given some drastic yet unquantifiable benefit.

EDHdad

To be honest, 60 mana in one turn is pretty normal with Koth.