New Store - Heroes for Hire (4/11/17)

keitterman

Borstock said:

I can't believe I have to specify this, but I am speaking in generalities because I don't think we need to turn this into a treatise on Economics. My argument here is that a change that angers a few people can still be a change that makes them more money than the previous status quo.

and I'm telling you that things are not that simple. 

Spudgutter

keitterman said:

There was a thread on reddit a week or two back about how Tesla selling upgrades impacted the sales of the higher end cars.  Long story short, some people pay more, if they feel they are getting their money's worth.  Econ 101.  
Also, CNN had a guy with a PhD debating climate change with with Bill Nye over the weekend.  Just because someone smart disagrees with a certain principle, it doesn't mean they are the end all when it comes to the argument 

Not sure if you've read anything by Dr. Solomon, I'm not sure if it's required reading for 1st year students, but it goes beyond an anecdotal Reddit thread.

Also, I included his wiki page because he's more than just a PhD. Your logic to discredit him is a fallacy that could be applied to discredit any accredited individual, as long as you can contrast them to a known face like Mr. Nye. 

Not to be rude, but your response shows the sort of amateurish reasoning that led the powers-that-be to make these sort of decisions. Unless his specialty is in the field of micro transactions in a digital economy, I don't think it would help.

And that's why i made that comment.  Just because you disagree with the thought process, and find someone to back up the theory, it doesn't validate it any more or less than mine invalidates it.  The people that make this game have to answer to the people that own the game, not us. That's the unfortunate reality.

keitterman

Not to be rude, but your response shows the sort of amateurish reasoning that led the powers-that-be to make these sort of decisions. Unless his specialty is in the field of micro transactions in a digital economy, I don't think it would help.

And that's why i made that comment.  Just because you disagree with the thought process, and find someone to back up the theory, it doesn't validate it any more or less than mine invalidates it.  The people that make this game have to answer to the people that own the game, not us. That's the unfortunate reality.

So if we have different through processes, and I reference someone significantly accredited in the field, and yes, Dr. Solomon is significantly accredited in the economic ramifications of ethical business decisions, that doesn't validate my view over yours? Because I'm pretty sure it actually does. The specific except I posted refutes the idea that a business must make decisions solely on the bottom line as a responsibility to shareholders. Making the article significant to the topic at hand... strengthening my viewpoint. Maybe read it?

Freelancer

Ant-Man purple today, which my 1/5/5 is screaming out for, even more so as the expected progression reward will now likely be skipped for this new boss event.

NOT paying 3600 for it though...

Spudgutter

keitterman said:

Not to be rude, but your response shows the sort of amateurish reasoning that led the powers-that-be to make these sort of decisions. Unless his specialty is in the field of micro transactions in a digital economy, I don't think it would help.

And that's why i made that comment.  Just because you disagree with the thought process, and find someone to back up the theory, it doesn't validate it any more or less than mine invalidates it.  The people that make this game have to answer to the people that own the game, not us. That's the unfortunate reality.

So if we have different through processes, and I reference someone significantly accredited in the field, and yes, Dr. Solomon is significantly accredited in the economic ramifications of ethical business decisions, that doesn't validate my view over yours? Because I'm pretty sure it actually does. The specific except I posted refutes the idea that a business must make decisions solely on the bottom line as a responsibility to shareholders. Making the article significant to the topic at hand... strengthening my viewpoint. Maybe read it?

Maybe post the excerpt?  

You are trying so hard to prove your point, while I keep telling you; the point cannot be proven. Since neither you nor I have access to the data, or the reasoning behind it, neither of us can guess what the process was behind the decision.  We also cannot guess what is the proper way forward is, either.

If you change your posts to point out that it is just your opinion, then I will get behind your attempt at rationalization. But I keep getting the impression that you think you know exactly what the problem and solution are, and I don't think you do.  Since the sales keep going, day by day, I'm going to continue to assume they are doing what they think is right, with our without my input on the forum.  

keitterman

Maybe post the excerpt?  

You are trying so hard to prove your point, while I keep telling you; the point cannot be proven. Since neither you nor I have access to the data, or the reasoning behind it, neither of us can guess what the process was behind the decision.  We also cannot guess what is the proper way forward is, either.

If you change your posts to point out that it is just your opinion, then I will get behind your attempt at rationalization. But I keep getting the impression that you think you know exactly what the problem and solution are, and I don't think you do.  Since the sales keep going, day by day, I'm going to continue to assume they are doing what they think is right, with our without my input on the forum.  

I did post the link, don't read it if you don't want. Don't believe me if you don't want. All I can do is post the facts, it's up to you to accept them or not. Have a great day.

Spudgutter

keitterman said:

If a few people get so angry that they stop playing, but the net revenue earned is positive, then implementation was a success.

This is not accurate. Here's an excerpt from a book "A Better Way to Think About Business: How Personal Integrity Leads to Corporate Success" by Robert C. Solomon. You can review his credentials here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_C._Solomon .The author makes several great points about profit and revenue that point out why you can't use flat math like this to consider this sort of project a success.

No excerpt posted, just a wiki page.

There are facts, and then there are opinions.  I am not the one claiming to be posting facts, quite the contrary. Heck, I am even willing to change my stance, given the proper context.

keitterman

Spudgutter said:

No excerpt posted, just a wiki page.

There are facts, and then there are opinions.  I am not the one claiming to be posting facts, quite the contrary. Heck, I am even willing to change my stance, given the proper context.

Well... dang-it. I hope we can agree it takes a big person to admit they were wrong.. and i am. Here's the excerpt: http://goo.gl/nOQUgn

nickaraxnos

Borstock said:

nickaraxnos said:

Maybe you should stop thinking that these devs are so good at what they do.
Especially when there are so many good reasonings from too many players that proves exactly the opposite
Honestly, lately they seem exactly like a bunch of high school kids doing silly things. Or maybe some well payed mature people with too many achievements in the past who currently have the god complex

The devs run multiple mobile games that have existed for multiple years with millions of downloads. Demiurge Studios was formed in 2002. They know more about this industry than your average player.

1) devs is a team of people changing over the years. The good ones might have left from this game for a better job
2) the number of downloads is not so important by itself. How many are they playing it from those millions? How much did they spend? Is the analogy good?
Futuri Fight has 10 mil downloads. Mpq has 5 mil. Are the devs of mpq half as good than the others? 
Not to mention that when you put mrvels brandname infront of your app, you ll have millions of downloading only from that.
3) This way of thinking "the devs know better than the average player" so they cant be wrong, is the start of the god complex i was telling you about.

I am a basketball coach. My wife doesnt know anything about basketball but when she critices me after a game, i just listen. Same goes with everyone that thinks he knows and give me advices. I believe you have to listen everyones opinion. Think about it. Try new things. Communicate. 
One cannot know everything. And you can take good ideas from anyone

Stussi

Dear @Brigby, why some player could become stronger than me spending less money on a 4* without any explicit reason? This is a simple question to ask to your team. Please do it.

Anyway since the introduction of Heroes for Hire store, I didn't spend any real money in the game as a protest. Maybe I will renew my VIP maybe not but from the time of that bad choice I really really hate your way of doing business and now I'm thinking 100 times before giving to you a single penny.

UnsmashableTim

I'm way late on this post, but can someone tell me if anyone mentioned, it would be nice to be able to buy any cover you want. I am waiting for a miles morales red, anyway owning 5 purple and 5 yellow. There is no way to win him other than making him a bonus hero and hoping you don't get the other two colours or waiting to level 3* Spider man to 265... So sad

Borstock

keitterman said:

Borstock said:

I can't believe I have to specify this, but I am speaking in generalities because I don't think we need to turn this into a treatise on Economics. My argument here is that a change that angers a few people can still be a change that makes them more money than the previous status quo.

and I'm telling you that things are not that simple. 

Yes, that is what a generalization means.

ejm04

Unsmashable Tim said:

I'm way late on this post, but can someone tell me if anyone mentioned, it would be nice to be able to buy any cover you want. I am waiting for a miles morales red, anyway owning 5 purple and 5 yellow. There is no way to win him other than making him a bonus hero and hoping you don't get the other two colours or waiting to level 3* Spider man to 265... So sad

Nobody knows for sure, but my guess is, since it is cycling through the BB 4*s, the next round will likely be the 2nd color, and the round after that will likely be the 3rd color. That's the cycle for the DDQ 3* covers. If this is the case, you will be able to buy whatever color you want, you'll just have to wait for it.

Borstock

nickaraxnos said:

1) devs is a team of people changing over the years. The good ones might have left from this game for a better job
2) the number of downloads is not so important by itself. How many are they playing it from those millions? How much did they spend? Is the analogy good?
Futuri Fight has 10 mil downloads. Mpq has 5 mil. Are the devs of mpq half as good than the others? 
Not to mention that when you put mrvels brandname infront of your app, you ll have millions of downloading only from that.
3) This way of thinking "the devs know better than the average player" so they cant be wrong, is the start of the god complex i was telling you about.

I am a basketball coach. My wife doesnt know anything about basketball but when she critices me after a game, i just listen. Same goes with everyone that thinks he knows and give me advices. I believe you have to listen everyones opinion. Think about it. Try new things. Communicate. 
One cannot know everything. And you can take good ideas from anyone

1)  Developers change, but all of their knowledge doesn't just leave the company when they do. The company retains its own market research.

2)  The point is that they have 15 years of experience and success. How they got it is irrelevant.

3)  I didn't say "they know better". I said that they know more about this industry.

To use your analogy, perhaps you're familiar with sports talk radio. Should the general manager of a pro basketball team listen to fans about when to trade someone, when to fire a coach, and what free agents to sign? Is listening to those fans even worth their time?

Qubort

Unsmashable Tim said:

I'm way late on this post, but can someone tell me if anyone mentioned, it would be nice to be able to buy any cover you want. I am waiting for a miles morales red, anyway owning 5 purple and 5 yellow. There is no way to win him other than making him a bonus hero and hoping you don't get the other two colours or waiting to level 3* Spider man to 265... So sad

120 cp is your other option.

Qubort

Borstock said:

nickaraxnos said:

1) devs is a team of people changing over the years. The good ones might have left from this game for a better job
2) the number of downloads is not so important by itself. How many are they playing it from those millions? How much did they spend? Is the analogy good?
Futuri Fight has 10 mil downloads. Mpq has 5 mil. Are the devs of mpq half as good than the others? 
Not to mention that when you put mrvels brandname infront of your app, you ll have millions of downloading only from that.
3) This way of thinking "the devs know better than the average player" so they cant be wrong, is the start of the god complex i was telling you about.

I am a basketball coach. My wife doesnt know anything about basketball but when she critices me after a game, i just listen. Same goes with everyone that thinks he knows and give me advices. I believe you have to listen everyones opinion. Think about it. Try new things. Communicate. 
One cannot know everything. And you can take good ideas from anyone

1)  Developers change, but all of their knowledge doesn't just leave the company when they do. The company retains its own market research.

2)  The point is that they have 15 years of experience and success. How they got it is irrelevant.

3)  I didn't say "they know better". I said that they know more about this industry.

To use your analogy, perhaps you're familiar with sports talk radio. Should the general manager of a pro basketball team listen to fans about when to trade someone, when to fire a coach, and what free agents to sign? Is listening to those fans even worth their time?

That would depend on the GM. General Managers get fired quite often. Heroes for Hire seems like a Rick Mirer trade.

Borstock

Qubort said:

That would depend on the GM. General Managers get fired quite often. Heroes for Hire seems like a Rick Mirer trade.

Wrong sport

The GM should never look to the fans for advice. The GM that does is an idiot.

smkspy

In light of all the recent upcoming characters announcement I'm actually glad that I have the 3600 hp price. Cause if I had the lower 

UnsmashableTim

Qubort said:

Unsmashable Tim said:

I'm way late on this post, but can someone tell me if anyone mentioned, it would be nice to be able to buy any cover you want. I am waiting for a miles morales red, anyway owning 5 purple and 5 yellow. There is no way to win him other than making him a bonus hero and hoping you don't get the other two colours or waiting to level 3* Spider man to 265... So sad

120 cp is your other option.

I don't mind spending the 120 cp if that's what it takes, but you have to get that first cover somehow.  And I assume they'll keep running them until the 2nd and 3rd covers, but that's still another  90 days away theoretically.  I could always wait for 3* Spidey to hit lvl 265, but that's just as long, if not longer

nickaraxnos

Borstock said:

nickaraxnos said:

1) devs is a team of people changing over the years. The good ones might have left from this game for a better job
2) the number of downloads is not so important by itself. How many are they playing it from those millions? How much did they spend? Is the analogy good?
Futuri Fight has 10 mil downloads. Mpq has 5 mil. Are the devs of mpq half as good than the others? 
Not to mention that when you put mrvels brandname infront of your app, you ll have millions of downloading only from that.
3) This way of thinking "the devs know better than the average player" so they cant be wrong, is the start of the god complex i was telling you about.

I am a basketball coach. My wife doesnt know anything about basketball but when she critices me after a game, i just listen. Same goes with everyone that thinks he knows and give me advices. I believe you have to listen everyones opinion. Think about it. Try new things. Communicate. 
One cannot know everything. And you can take good ideas from anyone

1)  Developers change, but all of their knowledge doesn't just leave the company when they do. The company retains its own market research.

2)  The point is that they have 15 years of experience and success. How they got it is irrelevant.

3)  I didn't say "they know better". I said that they know more about this industry.

To use your analogy, perhaps you're familiar with sports talk radio. Should the general manager of a pro basketball team listen to fans about when to trade someone, when to fire a coach, and what free agents to sign? Is listening to those fans even worth their time?

1) The point is that if we accept that through the years the mpq devs are changing we can say that some of them took better decisions than others, And i believe the team is running the show at the moment are making bad decisions. But i am ready to accept they are doing one thing good. New characters like peggy, he, coulson etc managed to change the way players are playing the game. And that' s good

2) We don't know if the current team of devs have 15 years of experience. For all i know they might be students. Unless you can tell me you know them. I don' t. I also wrote #2 to prove you that numbers of downloads is not a good measure of success. In order to tell if they are successful we need more facts

3) Knowing more about this industry doesn't mean they do all things wisely. We are debating about changes like vaulting, oml nerf and nerf in general, a/b testing and so on. They definitely have more experience than me in this industry even if they are students but i am keeping my right to judge them because i am playing the game,

Now to the good part

Part of a gm job is to know what the fans want. Of course he should listen to them. Of course he wont be making his trading decisions only because fans want or doesn't want something but he must consider everything. 
When for some reason he must take a decision that will make a big part of the fans unhappy what he should do 
(or someone else from the team) is to communicate with the fans and explain them why the team took this decision. Was it for money? Was it because he strongly believes the new player/coach is what the team needs? In any case he should communicate with the fans because you want them happy. You need to sell tickets, you need many people come to your home games for advertisement. Players want fans to cheer for them and so on.

If you want to create a good team the key is to find balance. Very difficult thing to do indeed. But you cant have long term success without it.