Upcoming Character Change to Wolverine (Old Man Logan)

zeeke

You know what a good trader in price for OML once he's nerfed would be..?

ALL THE MONEY I'VE SPENT ON THE GAME

That or just make him a 5 version of the post-boost-pre-nerfed xforce

wymtime

I will wait to make my final decision on the nerf bat after they announce the changes and I try him out. I will give my opinion as to why I personally use so much OML. The number one reason I use OML is because of his true healing and scaling. In PVE since I have OML champed and BSSM champed I have massive scaling. My 4* that are not boosted are useless in PVE because of scaling. My boosted 4* are useless in PVP because 5* match damage kills them so fast.
The last reason I use him so much is because I can't fully cover my other 5* because of RNG. I have a 12 cover Phoenix that I have sold 3 covers for a 12 cover SS I have sold 3 covers for and IM, banner at 10 covers. The fact is to cover max a classic 5* with the RNG is brutal. I have actually given up on classics and just pulle latest as I will be more likely to cover max them. The fact that I can't cover the majority of 5* makes OML my go to player.
I would love to rotate in Green Goblin or banner, or Black Bolt but I can't be used I don't have enough covers with my PVE scaling. Fix the RNG on getting 5* and PVE scaling and you will see a lot less people playing OML.

Arphaxad

@Brigby "However, the same has not been true of improvements to 5-stars such as Silver Surfer (Skyrider) and Steve Rogers (First Avengers), due in largest part to the ubiquity and strength of Wolverine (Old Man Logan)."

The developers have this completely wrong. The changes to Surfer and Rogers had little effect because so few players have access to these champions. The rate at which non-whale players are getting fives is slow going.

We are getting saturated by new covers at a rate that does not allow players to build five stars. Please, slow the release schedule down. This will help with the ISO shortage, the roster saturation, and the need for rehashed boring champions.

firethorne

revskip wrote:

I also think its a little early to get out the pitchforks before any of the changes are actually announced. But that is par for the course.

Under different circumstances, I'd agree. But, in this case, we already had them out with vaulting and the money grab vintage tokens. They already had a fair number of players riled up. We all have our breaking points, and people had already been talking about cancelling their VIP and boycotting prior to this change. At some point, they need to be aware they're just pouring gasoline on an already burning fire.

DrDoMe

So, I'm going to assume the devs are not stupid, so when they saw that "10% of winning teams include OML" they then asked the next logical question which is "is this maybe because he's the most-covered 5* for the overwhelming majority of the players due to mechanics they have no control over?".

Then they looked and it turns out, yes, most players have more OML covers than any other 5*, even ones they like more. So I assume, that being the root of the problem, the devs have some secret plan to actually improve 5* diversity that they just haven't announced yet, but surely must be coming soon because you wouldn't just take away everyone's favorite toy without giving them a replacement, right? Right!?

I just started playing with OML because he finally has every power, and he's literally the only 5* I can say that about. If you want to give me two covers of each color for Green Goblin or Black Bolt/Panther, I'd happily retire my OML.

Borstock

funeralthirst7 wrote:

This is the 3rd Wolverine that has had a nerf. Both of the others were nerfed into oblivion. Seriously, when was the last time anybody has seen X-Force Wolverine? Even when buffed he is a rare sight. He should have his picture on a milk carton.

I use him all the time with De4dpool.

Saintsfanuk

My 5 stars

OML 3/5/1 - lvl 330
Black Panther 0/3/4
Strange 0/3/1
Bolt 0/1/2
Thanos 1/1/1
Surfer 3/3/1
Goblin 2/1/1
Cap 0/1/2
Iron man 1/1/1
Black widow 1/0/0
Pheonix 0/0/1
Spiderman 0/1/0
Hulk 0/0/1
Hawkeye 0/0/0

I have 17 champed 4s that I love using but will alway pair them with OML in pve because he is the only 5 I have decent covers for and the healing helps of course. He doesnt get a look in in PvP and my boosted 4s love to take him on if i see him in pvp.

A year ago the nerf would have made sense but now there are loads of other 5 stars to use. The problem is how many rosters are like mine? I struggle for any 5s and was just lucky in the start that I got OML and surfer covers but pheonix suffered.

Give me covers in the other 5s and watch me not use OML every match.

BatteryHorse

This is probably a dumb idea, but one reason people likely use OML regularly in their teams is because 5*s are never boosted. There's rarely a reason to dig into your less-covered or less-used 5's because they're slow to gather covers for and they never really change.

If there were no 3 or 4* boosted characters each week we'd probably use the same handful of characters exclusively. Instead we have some that are boosted each week, some that are required, we used to have heroics which put specific limits on the choice of heroes, etc.

If 5* Black Panther was boosted for a week, you might use him instead of OML even if you only had a few covers. There are ways to innovate that don't involve nerfing. Nerfing is the lazy way out.

Ratvader

Arphaxad wrote:

@Brigby "However, the same has not been true of improvements to 5-stars such as Silver Surfer (Skyrider) and Steve Rogers (First Avengers), due in largest part to the ubiquity and strength of Wolverine (Old Man Logan)."

The developers have this completely wrong. The changes to Surfer and Rogers had little effect because so few players have access to these champions. The rate at which non-whale players are getting fives is slow going.

We are getting saturated by new covers at a rate that does not allow players to build five stars. Please, slow the release schedule down. This will help with the ISO shortage, the roster saturation, and the need for rehashed boring champions.

They WANT you to chase iso and they WANT you to need to constantly buy roster spots! WAKE UP!!!!! D3 hates us. The game isnt designed to be fair. Its designed to soak you for cash to stay competitive.

Anon

Great. I can't wait for OML to get nerfed and the covers finally start pouring in. It happened with X-Force and it will happen again now.

notamutant

Hear me out guys. I don't think they are actually going to nerf OML. This is all a big ploy to distract people, and then when they announce tomorrow there is no nerf, people will rejoice and praise D3 for listening to feedback. They will forget that no other buffs happened this month to other characters, and forget about vaulting. It is all an elaborate scheme to distract and divert attention. Basically, a developer got lazy with the buffs this month and figured this would be a great way to cover it up.

Dormammu

Brigby wrote:

Over 10% of all battles won include an Old Man Logan on the player’s team. This is higher than the win or play rate of any other character in the game even when those characters are Powered-Up.

I have a hard time trusting this statistic when IM40 exists.

TriggerTime

Time for some levity, perhaps...

CNash

You have to be kidding me. I reached Day 1095 and got my first EVER yellow cover for OML on Saturday!

Your timing SUCKS.

Bossblack

Guys, the forum is being migrated so all these posts may not be migrated over.... Good timing to break out the nerf news...

Houtro

Ahh that's nice touch designers. So maybe in a year from now you will do the same with Black Bolt and Thanos !?
That's why the game was so many old bugs (and some fresh), you were busy with OML. Nice one team! You guys really know a lot about this...
Don't even know the numbers behind it, but with your history lol bye bye Logan.
Just my 2 cents, yeah I know very constructive, just like the designers team

zantzor

Oh no!! Better switch my bonus 5* to Thanos then because my long term goal has just been hit with the nerf-bat. It's also a good time to quit this game due to a lot of bad decisions lately.

Dormammu

Bossblack wrote:

Guys, the forum is being migrated so all these posts may not be migrated over.... Good timing to break out the nerf news...

Only posts after 6pm PST starting today. That's 7 hours from now. This is all carrying over, for better or worse.

Crowl

bigsmooth wrote:

One thing to note is that the specific phrase "low covers" is used twice in the announcement. I'm obviously speculating here, but it's possible that the adjustments will not have a significant effect on those folks that have him well covered/champed.

I hope they will be gentle enough with the nerf bat that people keep using him, none of my 5*s are usable so I am running with two boosted 4*s in pvp and the low hp of oml makes him a great target as long as somebody on your team has a stun.

whitecat31

Demiurge Lead Designer wrote:

As you recall, we’ve been focusing on character updates that increase the power of those characters, and monitoring how well that’s impacted team diversity and the competitive experience. Over time, we’ve seen that 4-star character positive rebalances have significantly improved those characters’ usability and ability to win battles. However, the same has not been true of improvements to 5-stars such as Silver Surfer (Skyrider) and Steve Rogers (First Avengers), due in largest part to the ubiquity and strength of Wolverine (Old Man Logan).

Is it though? Could it be that your upgrades to Silver Surfer and Steve Rogers stunk? Can you accept responsibility?

Demiurge Lead Designer wrote:

Old Man Logan, as one of our first 5-stars and one of our first characters with multiple sets of powers, is stronger and significantly more useful than most other options for one’s team, even when he’s at low covers. Over 10% of all battles won include an Old Man Logan on the player’s team. This is higher than the win or play rate of any other character in the game even when those characters are Powered-Up. We believe that his ubiquity and power is reducing options for team composition - Old Man Logan is significantly better even than other 5-stars at low covers, and he’s pushing out otherwise viable 4-star and 5-star options because he warrants a permanent place on the team.

Do you want to know why Old Man Logan is used so much for winning? You guys introduced Thanos with his black team damage, that makes OML very popular right now. If you remove the win percentages of all battles with Old Man Logan on the team combined with Thanos, I think your percentage rate will go down significantly. As for viable 4 star and 5 star options, your representatives still think Sentry is viable after Sentry's nerf, so to say I don't trust your use of the word "viable" right now, is an understatement.

Demiurge Lead Designer wrote:

To that end, Old Man Logan will be our first major rebalance to decrease power since the start of our regular season rebalances. We hope that this change to Old Man Logan will be sufficient and that we can return to the rebalances that increase power we’ve been doing. We’ll continue to monitor how the metagame and team composition evolves - if you have feedback on character rebalances, such as this one, please let us know!

This is not a small change. Players have spent thousands of dollars to get CP to buy old man logan covers for 720 CP a piece. In buy groups each five star cover translates to being worth roughly 500 dollars. What type of compensation are you going to give these players? Are you going to give them five star covers of their choice for each cover of old man logan they have?

Old Man Logan has only one active ability, and it is the creation of strike tiles with his black. This clearly is not a game changer. So clearly you are going to go after Old Man Logan's True Healing. From many of our perspectives this is the famous True Healing nerf health pack money grab all over again.