Vintage Heroic Packs (3/30/17)

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  • killerkoala
    killerkoala Posts: 1,185 Chairperson of the Boards
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    we need change in legendary not heroic. and also colorless covers and change elites to 3*/4* only token
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
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    carrion pigeons wrote:
    The idea that people won't buy packs is ridiculous. Of course they will. They're people's best shot to farm characters they actively want covers for. The fact is that they're the best available source for vaulted characters, and that's going to make them a significant source of profit.

    That fact that it's an unfair and condescending source doesn't change that. The fact that it harms gameplay doesn't change that. People will still buy them because there isn't a better deal available.

    Agreed, I'm not going to stand on principle and purposely impede my roster progression when I'm annoyed with the changed they've made to hinder my roster progression... That said, I'm of the opinion that this is such an ineffective way of letting us at the retired characters that they wont see a big incentive... Basically its so stupid that there is no need to even actively boycott.

    Much more often than not, the goal of the company: maximize (average $ spent by customers) x (number of customers)
    rarely lines up with my goal of playing a game I still find enjoyable.

    The right move for them may very well be to drive me off as a customer... its business, and its why I'm not still playing any number of MMOs I used to like... That said I think vaulting is horrible and the non-fixes are insulting, but its still a long way away from driving me off...
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I guess this is all truly because 4's are still seen as too valuable to have a DDQ for, end of the day for whatever reason.

    Even though they would have a longer rotation then the 3's do now. And will start to appear in some progressions twice a year while being boosted multiple times a year thanks to 1 4 star per event and there being so close to 50 soon.

    With a max of 2 pve's a week and some being 7 days. Yeah there won't be ( and currently isn't anyway if my math is a right) a way for all 3 colors of any 4 to appear in a year.

    I think even rotating in the characters 4 star pvp's might even be a better idea. (even though people won't be able to cover them icon_e_confused.gif )
    At least they'd be in pack again sporadically.
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
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    Agree with GurlBYE...

    I'd also be fine with them putting the 4* tier to rest, open the flood gates and have all new characters be in the 5* tier. IMO the don't need to vault, but they're also creating more of a vaulting case because they're staying on 4*s and putting more new ones out there...

    If I went crazy with speculation I'd say its because the 5* transition sucks so bad that its would be hard to pitch "stop 4*s and move onto new 5*s" as an option... if they fix the transition they can just focus on 5*s, stop diluting 4*s, stop vaulting them just give people more opportunity to get tokens that pull 4*s (doesn't need to pull 5*s as well, even a 50/50 3*/4* token would work)

    Oh well, 100s of way to do it that makes more sense than what they're going to test.
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
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    MissChinch wrote:
    Agree with GurlBYE...

    I'd also be fine with them putting the 4* tier to rest, open the flood gates and have all new characters be in the 5* tier. IMO the don't need to vault, but they're also creating more of a vaulting case because they're staying on 4*s and putting more new ones out there...

    If I went crazy with speculation I'd say its because the 5* transition sucks so bad that its would be hard to pitch "stop 4*s and move onto new 5*s" as an option... if they fix the transition they can just focus on 5*s, stop diluting 4*s, stop vaulting them just give people more opportunity to get tokens that pull 4*s (doesn't need to pull 5*s as well, even a 50/50 3*/4* token would work)

    Oh well, 100s of way to do it that makes more sense than what they're going to test.

    The 5 transition is bad but they won't force us there yet because each new 5 is too profitable.

    People have to buy HP to get Cp. and it's 100 dollars for each 7CP (which becomes 140 CP in a buyers club, but still 2,000USD spent) and takes from a few hundred to a few thousand to cover a character. Even if one player does this (and we know one who does, there are likely others, even if they just buy part) that's enough to keep this going.
  • thisone
    thisone Posts: 655 Critical Contributor
    edited March 2017
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    Bleccchhh.
  • Khanwulf
    Khanwulf Posts: 103 Tile Toppler
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    Because I'm nice, and Brigby's been handed a dumpster fire on Friday so by Sunday people will be tracing his IP and showing up with pitchforks, I'll provide a draft developer response letter:

    Hello everyone!

    We became aware immediately on release of the Bonus Heroes feature that the decision to "vault" older 4 star.png heroes was problematic to large sections of the player community, effectively hampering collection rates for players invested in heroes no longer included in tokens. A great many well-reasoned suggestions to address this problem were floated and we're still deciding the best course of action. But take action we will!

    This is a tricky problem and touches the long-term health of Marvel Puzzle Quest in terms of its fun and appeal. We want to ensure new heroes can be introduced, without impairing the ability of players to complete them as they get "lost" among others. This means, ultimately, that some heroes will be prioritized over others at a given time in token pools. The mechanism for this has been explained earlier.

    Vintage Heroic Tokens are intended as an initial stopgap to the challenge of accessing those non-priority heroes, the ones "vaulted" out of other tokens. Fitting this new hero mix into the Versus off-season is the fastest, most straightforward means we have right now to give token access to the missing heroes in-game again. We're examining other options, but they require development resources taking longer periods of time to implement. We at Demiurge appreciate the passion this community holds for MPQ, but also must steward the schedule agreed with Marvel.

    It will take time to bring all of our solutions to bear. In the meantime, we hope the Vintage Heroic Token is a valuable, introductory measure and will be examining data from it very closely. Thank you all for your enthusiasm in responding to its introduction--and yes, patience as we transition to a healthier MPQ for all players.

    Devs *kisses*


    ....

    See? That wasn't hard.

    --Khanwulf

    That was very tactfully written. It addresses the community's concern in an empathetic manner, yet still conveys the necessity of stewarding the development schedule.
    Well done, we absolutely agree with what you've voiced, and I want to thank you for that contribution.
    -Brigby
  • Khanwulf
    Khanwulf Posts: 103 Tile Toppler
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    Fenfire wrote:
    I guess you did not closely follow the spirit of the development despite doing very well. I took some time to rearrange certain parts of your post if you don't mind.

    Yes I know, attempting to be constructive on the interwebs is generally unwelcome. However Brigby is a decent fellow and no one should be handed a poorly thought-out dumpster fire at the end of a Friday.

    What I'd really *like* to do is chain the devs down for a half hour lecture on crisis response, systems thinking and communication in online gaming, with a powerpoint--and a bullhorn. It would not be printable. All this seething rage is entirely avoidable and there are literally decades of example telling developers "don't do this ****--manage your customers thoughtfully."

    So yeah? Your anger? It's valid.

    --Khanwulf
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    edited March 2017
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    Please stay on topic and keep all discussion civil and constructive. You are certainly encouraged to express your opinions, however I must ask that you please do not deviate from the original topic, and to keep all feedback constructive. I have removed several posts that did not fall under this category. Thank you for understanding.
  • SuperRecoome
    SuperRecoome Posts: 59 Match Maker
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    While I play daily, I'm more of a casual player, I have almost all 3 stars champed but my highest level on those champed threes are in the 180s I currently have no 4 stars max covered and when I started playing this game Invisible Woman and Xforce wolverine were the only 2 4 stars there were. Before this change I was a VIP, I found the legendary tokens to be valuable and worth the money for VIP. With those, and an increase in CP I was starting to actually get some progress in my 4 star roster, I was starting to get covers. Before when I pulled a newer 4 star it was slightly annoying as it was another 1000 hero points to roster the new guy that wouldn't even be close to playable with this change, that annoyance is all I will experience with legendary tokens. I don't earn rewards fast enough to max any of the 4s before they are out of the rotation, so Legendary tokens are now worthless to me. CP is pretty much next to worthless, unless I want to spend it on 4 star covers, but the cost is quite high and not really worth it, I let my VIP lapse since it's no longer a good value to me and my play style. The Heroic Vintage pack doesn't address my main concern, which is that Legendary tokens and CP no longer matter to me.

    So as it stands right now, My main option is horde tokens and CP until I have enough saved up to potentially max cover a character all at once. and hope for the best. I was hoping whatever solution you came up with would help with these issues. but a different type of heroic token, available temporarily does nothing for me, and won't help you get my 10$ a month back that I spend on VIP.

    Ah well, not sure what else to say now. Hope there is something else planned in the near future, because focusing on my three stars is keeping me busy for now, but it won't keep my interest forever.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,927 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I honestly would have been upset with a token or vault combining just old 3s and 4s, as I want a way to focus on old 4s the way we have TWO different methods to focus solely on new 4s (classic and latest legends). Not only did we not get that, but we instead got old 3s and 4s mixed with a majority of 2s. Then you make it time-limited on top of all that (which I'm happy with as I'd just as soon not be angered seeing the store there everytime I open the game). I have no idea how I prepared myself for what I thought was the worst solution only to find you all came up with an even worse one. I really am floored.

    The other thing that's crazy is that there was a small group of players in favor of vaulting initially, so there was a lively spirited debate in those threads. Yet I don't know if I've seen ONE post in favor of this "solution" in eight pages. This has gotten ugly and I feel people's anger is justified.

    Someone in another thread mentioned rating the game 0-1 stars and since I'm a free to play player I think that's a good way to show my displeasure in a way the developers might care about. I suggest others do the same as well.

    Off to the App Store...
  • tgibbs40
    tgibbs40 Posts: 113 Tile Toppler
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    Too bad the 2* are included because they'll probably dominate the packs. Also, from a business standpoint for MPQ, too bad this happened after the HP sale.

    My guess is the sales were poor, so we got this.

    They might've generated more $$$ running this with the HP sale.

    They might generate some $$$ now too...but if this sucks...and people spend thinking it's good....

    Hopefully it's a good feature out of the gate.
  • SleepingKoala
    SleepingKoala Posts: 11 Just Dropped In
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    While I play daily, I'm more of a casual player, I have almost all 3 stars champed but my highest level on those champed threes are in the 180s I currently have no 4 stars max covered and when I started playing this game Invisible Woman and Xforce wolverine were the only 2 4 stars there were. Before this change I was a VIP, I found the legendary tokens to be valuable and worth the money for VIP. With those, and an increase in CP I was starting to actually get some progress in my 4 star roster, I was starting to get covers. Before when I pulled a newer 4 star it was slightly annoying as it was another 1000 hero points to roster the new guy that wouldn't even be close to playable with this change, that annoyance is all I will experience with legendary tokens. I don't earn rewards fast enough to max any of the 4s before they are out of the rotation, so Legendary tokens are now worthless to me. CP is pretty much next to worthless, unless I want to spend it on 4 star covers, but the cost is quite high and not really worth it, I let my VIP lapse since it's no longer a good value to me and my play style. The Heroic Vintage pack doesn't address my main concern, which is that Legendary tokens and CP no longer matter to me.

    So as it stands right now, My main option is horde tokens and CP until I have enough saved up to potentially max cover a character all at once. and hope for the best. I was hoping whatever solution you came up with would help with these issues. but a different type of heroic token, available temporarily does nothing for me, and won't help you get my 10$ a month back that I spend on VIP.

    Ah well, not sure what else to say now. Hope there is something else planned in the near future, because focusing on my three stars is keeping me busy for now, but it won't keep my interest forever.

    This is exactly how I feel! I started playing when there were just 2 4* characters too (though I obviously play too much cos I have 14 4* champs today).

    The additions implemented along the way have mostly been positive (DDQ, champion levels, elite tokens to name a few) and helpful in progressing from 2* to 3* to 4*.

    But vaulting 4*? And this terrible sounding vintage token? It is a huge step backwards IMO. I too feel that LTs and CP have greatly diminished in value, and when one feels that way, is it really worth putting in the effort to grind for it?
  • killerkoala
    killerkoala Posts: 1,185 Chairperson of the Boards
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    someone is gonna get yelled at, bag man has bags to riches tokens not vintage heroic
  • Khanwulf
    Khanwulf Posts: 103 Tile Toppler
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    someone is gonna get yelled at, bag man has bags to riches tokens not vintage heroic

    It's not season end yet.

    Daredevil217, my situation is identical: I have all but 7 4* rostered, only a couple of which are capable of contributing anything at all, and at last count 20 3*s remaining to be championed. I've been pulling LT and CP from the Latest Legends because I really wanted Black Panther when he came out (he's not disappointed), but once BP leaves there will be no more reason to pull and I expect to hoard.

    Which won't be much because I'll let VIP lapse unless something changes.

    --Khanwulf
  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
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    Terribly sorry for posting here, but I'm not sure where could I ask:

    What is considered profanity in these forums? I understand that swear words will qualify as such, but I had numerous posts edited where I felt that I censored myself well enough by leaving just one letter of the word and adding few # or * to replace the rest. It seems that if a mod has even the slightest clue what I really meant, the post gets censored (or removed), at the same time "tinykitty" seems to be just fine, even though in many cases it's quite obvious what it means.

    So what's the deal with that? Am I allowed to use tinykitty freely, or am I getting banned if I use it in a sentence, where I'm supposably offending someone?
    Moreover, are there any safe words or is it just dependant on the mod's mood?

    "I thing devs are a massive elephants with fluffy ideas, so hike them." - is that allowed or not?
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Alsmir wrote:
    Terribly sorry for posting here, but I'm not sure where could I ask:

    What is considered profanity in these forums? I understand that swear words will qualify as such, but I had numerous posts edited where I felt that I censored myself well enough by leaving just one letter of the word and adding few # or * to replace the rest. It seems that if a mod has even the slightest clue what I really meant, the post gets censored (or removed), at the same time "tinykitty" seems to be just fine, even though in many cases it's quite obvious what it means.

    So what's the deal with that? Am I allowed to use tinykitty freely, or am I getting banned if I use it in a sentence, where I'm supposably offending someone?
    Moreover, are there any safe words or is it just dependant on the mod's mood?

    "I thing devs are a massive elephants with fluffy ideas, so hike them." - is that allowed or not?
    I think it's preferable if you don't self-censor and instead just let the word filter work it's magic. At least That's how it works on the forum that I moderate.
    It's probably better to avoid profanity whenever you can, but the word filter is there to stop minor screwups.
  • Dauthi
    Dauthi Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
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    Khanwulf wrote:
    Because I'm nice, and Brigby's been handed a dumpster fire on Friday so by Sunday people will be tracing his IP and showing up with pitchforks, I'll provide a draft developer response letter:

    Hello everyone!

    We became aware immediately on release of the Bonus Heroes feature that the decision to "vault" older 4 star.png heroes was problematic to large sections of the player community, effectively hampering collection rates for players invested in heroes no longer included in tokens.

    It's extremely important for them to realize this is not just a problem for players trying to collect older characters. It is a problem for veterans too who have them championed. I can't use my CP anymore because I don't have enough ISO to champ all these new characters. I used to get resources by randomly drawing old characters. Now that that's gone, they have effectively stopped me from having fun in MPQ by not allowing me to open tokens, one of the few great pleasures of this game.

    I am forced to save ISO and CP until, I dont know, I have 2 million ISO? Even then I will probably have waste. With all due respect, this sucks. I wish they could at least change it back to how it was until they figure out how to fix this train wreck.
  • killercool
    killercool Posts: 280 Mover and Shaker
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    The thing for me is that the little buzz of excitement just before you open a pack is no longer there. I know there are only 12 different covers that I will get, and 6 of those I will just have to sell because I do not have enough iOS to burst level them. So now I just vault until I have a few million ISO to level a bunch of 4* at once.

    This is a problem for D3, because it is that little dopermine hit before opening a pack that keeps players coming back. If they can't get that hit they will just drift away from the game.
  • kyo28
    kyo28 Posts: 161 Tile Toppler
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    killercool wrote:
    This is a problem for D3, because it is that little dopermine hit before opening a pack that keeps players coming back. If they can't get that hit they will just drift away from the game.
    True, this is the basic human emotion most F2P games thrive on: they feed our need for collecting all of the characters and each time we pull that random cover from a pack, we get a dopamine hit. That is non-existent for me at the moment. MPQ has turned into watching a train wreck in slow motion
    giphy.gif