OJSP said: MissChinch said: The tops of my (SCL8) brackets look generally the same as they have for a while in PvP, so I haven't landed in any thus far that have been over-run by what would look like mega whales, so its not been an impact to me, however its possible that all these cheating juggernauts are just queuing way before I am. PvE scores have risen dramatically in the last 4-5 months, but the scores are up pretty uniformly and rosters don't look any different in the top 20, though I haven't been keeping close tabs. I simply don't attribute that to abuse of this exploit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I saw you in one of my brackets recently, it means for PvP you would be in S2? For PvE you already said you play S4, so I know it's not there because I play in S3 and I don't think it was SHIELD Simulator or season. There are more players in the other slices. From our common knowledge, these 2 slices are actually the least populated of all the slices.
MissChinch said: The tops of my (SCL8) brackets look generally the same as they have for a while in PvP, so I haven't landed in any thus far that have been over-run by what would look like mega whales, so its not been an impact to me, however its possible that all these cheating juggernauts are just queuing way before I am. PvE scores have risen dramatically in the last 4-5 months, but the scores are up pretty uniformly and rosters don't look any different in the top 20, though I haven't been keeping close tabs. I simply don't attribute that to abuse of this exploit.
The tops of my (SCL8) brackets look generally the same as they have for a while in PvP, so I haven't landed in any thus far that have been over-run by what would look like mega whales, so its not been an impact to me, however its possible that all these cheating juggernauts are just queuing way before I am. PvE scores have risen dramatically in the last 4-5 months, but the scores are up pretty uniformly and rosters don't look any different in the top 20, though I haven't been keeping close tabs. I simply don't attribute that to abuse of this exploit.
OJSP said: MissChinch said: I take S4 and S5 in PvE, but I take the 12am and 1am ending times in PvP, you are totally right I flip flop on my PvP based on end time in my EST timezone... sorry that was a stupid mistake. I see. From those end times, that would be S2 and S4 for PvP. There are different circumstances that makes it less likely to spot exploiters in these 2 slices. No need to be sorry, I was just trying to figure out why your posts keep suggesting that you didn't see any exploiters. I think it's a common opinion from a lot of players and perhaps it's due to a lot of people not realising that there are a lot of brackets in a particular slice. Looking at the last event's result (Cyclops), there were 11829 alliances participating in the event. Even if we assume a generous average of 15 players per alliance, that's around 175000-180000 players. That would make up around 350-360 brackets. Most likely, the majority of players are playing CL1-5, so we can estimate there are around 50-60 brackets for CL6-8, split in 5 time slices.For example, I'm going to use S1 as it was the one I am most familiar with, having played in it for more than a year competitively: in S1 CL8, there are at least 8 brackets, each consisting of 500 players. So, if we only see the top 20 of our bracket, that's only less than 0.5% of the players for the whole CL8. Up to recently, there have been at least 10 CL7 brackets and many more other brackets. We sometimes see people with big rosters going as low as CL5 on purpose and I know of someone choosing CL2 by mistake..The exploiter are out there, if not in your bracket, they would be in the other brackets in your slice. I think it's just a matter of knowing where to look and what to look for. Also, apparently some of them have explicitly said so in out of game communications.So, this is why we keep bringing this topic up for discussion.
MissChinch said: I take S4 and S5 in PvE, but I take the 12am and 1am ending times in PvP, you are totally right I flip flop on my PvP based on end time in my EST timezone... sorry that was a stupid mistake.
That makes complete sense, anything I see in PvP is totally anecdotal... It would be nice to know what the gross number of exploiters is... with 150-200k people the odds that you'd get one in your bracket of 500 and notice in PvP seems like you would need something else to bias the distribution it in order to see a cheater...
PvE seems more consistent in terms of who I see near the top, I'm more likely to notice new names, but I wouldn't know a cheater from someone that whaled unless they have extreme oddities in their 5* cover distribution (like 3 5*s deep into champ levels and the rest minimally covered)
I don't mean to troll people looking for justice in this thread, I am completely against cheating and I'm in complete agreement in principle. I do believe D3/Demi's first responsibility is to the business side of things, if that means compromising on enforcing punishments, then that's what they should do, however that is not without implications in the business side, if they upset potential buyers enough they will loose out on those monies.
I think if the players are to appeal to D3/Demi for enforcement, the argument on principle is far stronger than the argument that its impacting play of non-cheaters. It appears to me that the cases where cheaters are actually having an impact are rather extreme edge cases. When I initially read this thread it appeared to me that people were rightfully upset and likely overstating the impact its had on non-cheaters, which undermined the whole plea for justice.
MissChinch said: I think I'm in agreement on the main issue that cheating is reprehensible and I'm all for them being banned without warning, but I'm just not buying into the argument that it was an impact to those that didn't cheat... it sounds like whining because someone else got something you wanted and didn't pay for it (which I can also get behind, I'm selfish and that's no fair, but... lifes not fair sometimes). I still think asking D3/Demi to jeopardize their revenue by taking a stance on it should be a business decision, and one that takes into account forum outcry only at it applies to their investors risk. (ex: immoral to put their investors/owners at risk, not immoral to let us non-cheaters hanging in a video game)
I think I'm in agreement on the main issue that cheating is reprehensible and I'm all for them being banned without warning, but I'm just not buying into the argument that it was an impact to those that didn't cheat... it sounds like whining because someone else got something you wanted and didn't pay for it (which I can also get behind, I'm selfish and that's no fair, but... lifes not fair sometimes). I still think asking D3/Demi to jeopardize their revenue by taking a stance on it should be a business decision, and one that takes into account forum outcry only at it applies to their investors risk. (ex: immoral to put their investors/owners at risk, not immoral to let us non-cheaters hanging in a video game)
I think you are missing some of the intent behind the arguments here. Nobody is whining because someone else got something they wanted and didn't pay for. People are arguing for D# to take a firm stance on dealing with cheaters. People are arguing that D# needs to respect its own policies and deal with the cheaters. People are arguing that the cheaters should not be able to benefit (and continue on in the future to benefit) from the spoils of their cheating.
Nobody is looking for compensation etc.. people just want to see the cheaters stopped and have the effects of their cheating rolled back. If that comes off as whining and lowers your opinion of the posters in this thread I am not sure what to say.
The rockett said: ...It is funny that Brigby has been tagged in this a few times, and didn't responded but he did edit @AlexxKats post. So he had been on here and reading this just not commenting. Oh well...
MissChinch said: My understanding of the exploit was that it was not an unlimited number of 5* pulls, but it was the ability to selectively pull only 5*s from your queue and pass on the 4*s. This assumption could absolutely be incorrect, but it would amount to only CP/LTs on hand during the exploit.
jamesh said: MissChinch said: My understanding of the exploit was that it was not an unlimited number of 5* pulls, but it was the ability to selectively pull only 5*s from your queue and pass on the 4*s. This assumption could absolutely be incorrect, but it would amount to only CP/LTs on hand during the exploit. Hopefully it is okay to speculate on what the exploit was now that the devs say it has been fixed. From what others have said, it sounds like it was a way to effectively increase the chance of getting a bonus hero for a particular token to 100%.Not only would this give the cheater double the number of 5*'s, if they had only selected a single favourite 5*, half of the covers received would be for that single hero. So this would also have given the cheater a way to cheaply cover and champion one of the older 5* characters. This would also give them access to characters that are virtually unobtainable for other players.
OJSP said: I noticed some people's roster have been rolled back. Thank you.
Daiches said: OJSP said: I noticed some people's roster have been rolled back. Thank you. This has been undone and apparently had nothing to do with cheating. So no punishments yet.
Helen keller said: Wow, I'm glad this post is dated because it's history repeating itself, this token exploit is what led to most people in my alliance, including myself, quitting, over a freaking year ago when people were abusing this expolit and had multiple fully covered silver surfer, yeah that's how long they have known about this and they have never fixed it, the devs are incompetent, they have been aware of this for years.
MissChinch said: Helen keller said: Wow, I'm glad this post is dated because it's history repeating itself, this token exploit is what led to most people in my alliance, including myself, quitting, over a freaking year ago when people were abusing this expolit and had multiple fully covered silver surfer, yeah that's how long they have known about this and they have never fixed it, the devs are incompetent, they have been aware of this for years. Its awful, but theres a difference between devs being incompetent and devs being given the prioritization of tasks we want.Again, they have known about it for years, they lost the confidence of the consumer by allowing it to stay in place, yes they rolled back the roster of those that abused it (over a year ago with the last "outbreak of exploiting) but spent money, they weren't banned, they weren't sandboxed, the only accounts that have been banned or sandboxed are those that "stole" HP. I could take it a step further, the devs intentionally left the exploit stay as is, because those that discover it buy more packs with the intent to exploit, they collect the money, then roll back the roster later, not that I feel sorry for those that have their rosters rolled back