*** Sam Wilson (Falcon) *** (Updated)

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  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    I think falcon would be too much of a defensive liability at lower levels. After playing the char with daken/pun, in pvp i really think its either daken or bust. In order to make inspiration worth it, you really need strike tiles out almost immediately as the match starts, and daken is really the only character that can really provide that consistently (esp since opponents green matches trigger tiles as well). Even characters like punisher seem slow in pvp since by the time you can judgement, a ton of turns will have passed already that you cant make yellow matches on. Daken/falc also needs a green/yellow sink in order to pack some punch in the mid-late game, so they dont seem good in a 2v2.

    They also need a red too and that pretty much limits you to Sentry or Thor at the high end PvP. Red is not the best offensive color anymore, but you're still compromising your offense a lot if you have no red abilities at all.

    It seems to me since Daken is likely to emerge as a permanent member of the top tier, getting Redwing to level 5 is quiet important since Daken can pump out strike tiles fast enough for the faster removal to matter.

    Black would work as well. Torch is probably fine despite not having a yellow since his abilties synergize incredibly well with falcon/daken. Im also taking a shot with 5/4/4 falcon based off of whps logic. Im not convinced that 5 in redwing is going to be that important, since the 3 extra purple tiles make it incredibly annoying for your opponent to do anything if they get it off: think the falcon pve node thats happening right now.
  • He's caused me loads of problems recently when playing against him and he releases all those birds. Aarrghhh
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    I think falcon would be too much of a defensive liability at lower levels. After playing the char with daken/pun, in pvp i really think its either daken or bust. In order to make inspiration worth it, you really need strike tiles out almost immediately as the match starts, and daken is really the only character that can really provide that consistently (esp since opponents green matches trigger tiles as well). Even characters like punisher seem slow in pvp since by the time you can judgement, a ton of turns will have passed already that you cant make yellow matches on. Daken/falc also needs a green/yellow sink in order to pack some punch in the mid-late game, so they dont seem good in a 2v2.

    They also need a red too and that pretty much limits you to Sentry or Thor at the high end PvP. Red is not the best offensive color anymore, but you're still compromising your offense a lot if you have no red abilities at all.

    It seems to me since Daken is likely to emerge as a permanent member of the top tier, getting Redwing to level 5 is quiet important since Daken can pump out strike tiles fast enough for the faster removal to matter.

    Black would work as well. Torch is probably fine despite not having a yellow since his abilties synergize incredibly well with falcon/daken. Im also taking a shot with 5/4/4 falcon based off of whps logic. Im not convinced that 5 in redwing is going to be that important, since the 3 extra purple tiles make it incredibly annoying for your opponent to do anything if they get it off: think the falcon pve node thats happening right now.

    right on the shields, but you aren't going to be having a 200 lvl Falcon, so his shield are not as good as they appear. Lvl 5 purple gives you 714 defense, lvl 4 purple gives you 476 defense, lvl 3 purple gives you 374 defense. So all you are gaining from lvl 3 to 4 is an extra 100 defense. Is that worth one less turn on Redwing? not sure as my Falcon isnt' high enough, but I would say 50% of the time I cannot clear the Redwing tile. It's basically do you want a 26% defensive increase or a 25% tile clear increase from Redwing? 5/4/4 or 5/5/3 are the two best builds, it just depends on what you favor more. I personally like to be able to destroy tiles 25% more often, not to mention that 476 defense drops by 36 every time a tile is cleared, where as if my redwing tile is destroyed my skill just became more effective. On a side note, if Sentry is going to be as destructive as he is, then a 5/3/5 or 3/5/5 Falcon build would be the most effective against him. 5 in purple would give you the greatest tile creation and the ability to block a lot of his World Rupture tiles.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    I think falcon would be too much of a defensive liability at lower levels. After playing the char with daken/pun, in pvp i really think its either daken or bust. In order to make inspiration worth it, you really need strike tiles out almost immediately as the match starts, and daken is really the only character that can really provide that consistently (esp since opponents green matches trigger tiles as well). Even characters like punisher seem slow in pvp since by the time you can judgement, a ton of turns will have passed already that you cant make yellow matches on. Daken/falc also needs a green/yellow sink in order to pack some punch in the mid-late game, so they dont seem good in a 2v2.

    They also need a red too and that pretty much limits you to Sentry or Thor at the high end PvP. Red is not the best offensive color anymore, but you're still compromising your offense a lot if you have no red abilities at all.

    It seems to me since Daken is likely to emerge as a permanent member of the top tier, getting Redwing to level 5 is quiet important since Daken can pump out strike tiles fast enough for the faster removal to matter.

    Black would work as well. Torch is probably fine despite not having a yellow since his abilties synergize incredibly well with falcon/daken. Im also taking a shot with 5/4/4 falcon based off of whps logic. Im not convinced that 5 in redwing is going to be that important, since the 3 extra purple tiles make it incredibly annoying for your opponent to do anything if they get it off: think the falcon pve node thats happening right now.

    right on the shields, but you aren't going to be having a 200 lvl Falcon, so his shield are not as good as they appear. Lvl 5 purple gives you 714 defense, lvl 4 purple gives you 476 defense, lvl 3 purple gives you 374 defense. So all you are gaining from lvl 3 to 4 is an extra 100 defense. Is that worth one less turn on Redwing? not sure as my Falcon isnt' high enough, but I would say 50% of the time I cannot clear the Redwing tile. It's basically do you want a 26% defensive increase or a 25% tile clear increase from Redwing? 5/4/4 or 5/5/3 are the two best builds, it just depends on what you favor more. I personally like to be able to destroy tiles 25% more often, not to mention that 476 defense drops by 36 every time a tile is cleared, where as if my redwing tile is destroyed my skill just became more effective. On a side note, if Sentry is going to be as destructive as he is, then a 5/3/5 or 3/5/5 Falcon build would be the most effective against him. 5 in purple would give you the greatest tile creation and the ability to block a lot of his World Rupture tiles.

    The extra def tiles are really nice though since it basically means that you can keep the 150 def tiles on board longer to mitigate match damage.
  • I always figured that as long as Inspiration upgraded a couple protect tiles from Bird Strike I shouldn't have to worry about match damage, and it seems unlikely to have enough protect tile versus special moves that aren't Molotov/World Rupture. That is, even a fairly weak special move hits for 2K and whether I have 1000, 700, or 400 protect tile doesn't change the outcome significantly when we're talking about that range of damage. I figure out of all of his protect tiles most of them will be gone sooner or later but as long as I upgraded the 4-5 that are left then I should be fine.
  • DreylinDreylin Posts: 241
    A couple of things:

    I might be mad, but Redwing is triggered either every 5th turn or every 4th turn - because Redwing won't fly out on the same turn the countdown reaches zero. (The Redwing trigger must be embedded before the Countdown decrement)

    Turn 0: create 4t countdown
    T1: countdown to 3
    T2: countdown to 2
    T3: countdown to 1
    T4: countdown to 0 - Redwing returns
    T5: create new 4t countdown

    So 5blue is only a 20% increase over 4blue, rather than 25%.

    Now to me this seems a miniscule improvement in a PvP environment and 5/4/4 or 5/3/5 is probably the build you want; however in PvE I think that this will make a real difference. I played my 5/4/3 Falcon quite a bit recently, and I have to say that it seemed like there were a lot of times in the 2+ high-level Goon match-ups where I was sitting with my Redwing tile counting down next to an un-matchable Goon tile with the same number on it thinking "if only this were a turn faster".

    (Of course there were probably an equal number of times when there were 2t and 5t countdowns on the board and it killed the 5t, while I got killed by the 2t.)

    Anyway, my plan is to go 5/5/3 especially since I'm (currently) keeping him at lvl100 so that Patch continues to match Yellow.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dreylin wrote:
    A couple of things:

    I might be mad, but Redwing is triggered either every 5th turn or every 4th turn - because Redwing won't fly out on the same turn the countdown reaches zero. (The Redwing trigger must be embedded before the Countdown decrement)

    Turn 0: create 4t countdown
    T1: countdown to 3
    T2: countdown to 2
    T3: countdown to 1
    T4: countdown to 0 - Redwing returns
    T5: create new 4t countdown

    So 5blue is only a 20% increase over 4blue, rather than 25%.

    Now to me this seems a miniscule improvement in a PvP environment and 5/4/4 or 5/3/5 is probably the build you want; however in PvE I think that this will make a real difference. I played my 5/4/3 Falcon quite a bit recently, and I have to say that it seemed like there were a lot of times in the 2+ high-level Goon match-ups where I was sitting with my Redwing tile counting down next to an un-matchable Goon tile with the same number on it thinking "if only this were a turn faster".

    (Of course there were probably an equal number of times when there were 2t and 5t countdowns on the board and it killed the 5t, while I got killed by the 2t.)

    Anyway, my plan is to go 5/5/3 especially since I'm (currently) keeping him at lvl100 so that Patch continues to match Yellow.

    you are correct, I forgot that it doesnt' return and recast on same turn.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dreylin wrote:
    A couple of things:

    I might be mad, but Redwing is triggered either every 5th turn or every 4th turn - because Redwing won't fly out on the same turn the countdown reaches zero. (The Redwing trigger must be embedded before the Countdown decrement)

    Turn 0: create 4t countdown
    T1: countdown to 3
    T2: countdown to 2
    T3: countdown to 1
    T4: countdown to 0 - Redwing returns
    T5: create new 4t countdown

    So 5blue is only a 20% increase over 4blue, rather than 25%.

    Now to me this seems a miniscule improvement in a PvP environment and 5/4/4 or 5/3/5 is probably the build you want; however in PvE I think that this will make a real difference. I played my 5/4/3 Falcon quite a bit recently, and I have to say that it seemed like there were a lot of times in the 2+ high-level Goon match-ups where I was sitting with my Redwing tile counting down next to an un-matchable Goon tile with the same number on it thinking "if only this were a turn faster".

    (Of course there were probably an equal number of times when there were 2t and 5t countdowns on the board and it killed the 5t, while I got killed by the 2t.)

    Anyway, my plan is to go 5/5/3 especially since I'm (currently) keeping him at lvl100 so that Patch continues to match Yellow.

    you are correct, I forgot that it doesnt' return and recast on same turn.
  • Wouldn't a good combination be 2*Wolverine or any of the wolverines would work. A falcon and a Im40 all there yellows work together wouldn't they
  • FrubzyFrubzy Age Unconfirmed Posts: 77
    I decided to lvl up my falcon .... currently hes at lvl 125 ....5 4 3. I paired him with my max draken and patch. He really is a huge asset...draken downs a team in a fraction of the time it used to take...even a max lt goes down fairly quickly with chunks of health being eaten away every turn...its always a gamble when matching though because falcon tanks yellow and blue two key colors ..i usually have to heal up every 3 or 4 turns....im wondering who should i lvl up to tank yellow...is lt my only option
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    Without buffs, only Spider-Man, the Hood, Black Panther, Invisible Woman, LC and Fury can tank yellow for lvl 128 Falcon.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    locked wrote:
    Without buffs, only Spider-Man, the Hood, Black Panther, Invisible Woman, LC and Fury can tank yellow for lvl 128 Falcon.

    Which is why I always pair Falcon with Cap usually, if you time things right, you can usually keep Falcon's Redwing activating while captain's shield comes back thus keeping you at the 9 blue. I love Pun/Falcon/Cap
  • Falcon/Laken/Sentry in the current PvE simulator is a blast too. World rupture really lives up to it's name.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Playing with the new Falcon numbers. Man this guy can really go 5/5/3, 5/4/4, or 5/3/5

    the upgrade from lvl 4 purp to lvl 5 41 tile strength to 60 is huge.

    Total Protection

    5/5/3=451
    5/4/4=574
    5/3/5=840

    The question comes down to how valuable Redwing is. Is destroying CD tiles worth giving up 266 shield protection? Is creating only 11 defensive tiles worth Redwing returning 1 turn sooner?

    Redwing
    5/5/3=destroy everything, CD timer of 3 (means every 5 of your turns it recasts if not destroyed sooner)
    5/4/4=destroy everything, CD timer of 4 (means every 6 of your turns it recasts if not destroyed sooner)
    5/3/5=cannot destroy CD, CD timer of 4 (means every 6 of your turns it recasts if not destroyed sooner)

    I had forgotten that while the CD timer may say 3, it doesn't count down untilt he begin of your turn, thus lvl 5 blue is not as good as I once thought. every 3 vs. every 4 is a 33% increase in casting, but every 5 vs 6 is only 20% increase in casting, but there are going to be situations where having that come back one turn earlier will be imperitive.

    I think I"m back to 5/4/4 however, I am seriously debating 5/3/5. having that much extra shield, just not able to destroy CD tiles. Hmmm, will see if I can get my 3/5/2 upgraded.
  • jojeda654jojeda654 Posts: 1,161 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I think I"m back to 5/4/4 however, I am seriously debating 5/3/5. having that much extra shield, just not able to destroy CD tiles. Hmmm, will see if I can get my 3/5/2 upgraded.

    I'm having the same dilemma, but I am leaning more towards 5/4/4.

    I would consider the 5/3/5 build mostly because with my current roster, I would only use Falcon in a Top Gun tournament. Thus, I would keep his blue at 3 to avoid having a Redwing-fest a la pre-nerf Raging Tempest.

    In any other case, I would not take my Falcon against another one, so having 4 blue is safe. And if you pair Falcon with a striker, having 4 in purple makes it more likely that your strike tiles are improved, meaning quicker matches.
  • I'm not sure what's the obsession with Bird Strike. I often don't use it even when I can because all it does is slow down Inspiriation on strike tiles. The only reason to use Bird Strike is if the level 395 PvE guys make their return because you need that to just survive their match 3s, but so far they haven't been showing up for a good while.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    I'm not sure what's the obsession with Bird Strike. I often don't use it even when I can because all it does is slow down Inspiriation on strike tiles. The only reason to use Bird Strike is if the level 395 PvE guys make their return because you need that to just survive their match 3s, but so far they haven't been showing up for a good while.

    so you would run 5/5/3?
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    so you would run 5/5/3?

    Yes. Pretty much every game I run with Falcon involves trying to upgrade strike tiles as often as you can, and even if you have 4 digit match 3 damage most of that is concentrated on a few strike tiles, so it's best to keep your options open rather than clogging up the board with protect tiles. I can see running a Bird Strike if you started with a lot of purple early without having any AP to generate strike tiles, but that's assuming you run without Daken which frankly makes no sense.
  • mischiefmakermischiefmaker Age Unconfirmed Posts: 932
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    Redwing
    5/5/3=destroy everything, CD timer of 3 (means every 5 of your turns it recasts if not destroyed sooner)
    5/4/4=destroy everything, CD timer of 4 (means every 6 of your turns it recasts if not destroyed sooner)
    5/3/5=cannot destroy CD, CD timer of 4 (means every 6 of your turns it recasts if not destroyed sooner)

    I had forgotten that while the CD timer may say 3, it doesn't count down untilt he begin of your turn, thus lvl 5 blue is not as good as I once thought. every 3 vs. every 4 is a 33% increase in casting, but every 5 vs 6 is only 20% increase in casting, but there are going to be situations where having that come back one turn earlier will be imperitive.
    Wait what?

    Turn 1: Redwing activates, removing a tile, placing a 3 turn CD. Opponent moves, gets the benefit of his second special tile.
    Turn 2: CD decreases to 2. Opponent gets benefit of his tile.
    Turn 3: CD decreases to 1. Opponent gets benefit of his tile.
    Turn 4: CD decreases to 0, goes away. Opponent gets benefit of his tile.
    Turn 5: Redwing activates, removing a tile, placing a 3 turn CD. Opponent does not have a tile on his turn.
    Turns 6-8: repeat 2-4 above.
    Turn 9: Redwing activates.

    Looks to me like it's every 4 turns v. every 5 turns. What am I missing?
  • vudu3vudu3 Posts: 937 Critical Contributor
    Looks to me like it's every 4 turns v. every 5 turns. What am I missing?
    Your thumb! You forgot to count your thumb! icon_mrgreen.gif
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