1.10.2 Feedback

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  • Cthulhu
    Cthulhu ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 410 Site Admin
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    We are definitely releasing Deck Slots soon! That is coming.

    Going to review the comments and answer throughout the day.
  • wink
    wink Posts: 136 Tile Toppler
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    Brigby wrote:
    nexus13 wrote:
    I don't understand why you want to keep the duplicate solution completely secret. That's just an idiotic idea, you really want to work on a system for months and then release it to have it fall flat like the current rune system? If you could tell us some of the plans now you could get some feedback and tweak it before release so the rollout goes smoother. We just need the high level view, the basic premise of what is being planned.
    We are not purposefully trying to keep it a secret. This feature is still being developed, which means certain details might change. We don't want to say one thing, find out later on there are issues preventing those details from happening, and then end up telling players we've ended up changing them. Once we receive confirmed information from the team, we will be sure to communicate that to all of you.
    What we're asking for is feedback and frequent communication. Your response only makes sense if you're comparing radio silence to giving a single update. If that's the case, I can (kind of) see how radio silence wins out since otherwise you might have to backtrack on an implied promise.

    But if you have frequent updates and feedback, details changing won't surprise us. If there are implementation issues, then we'll understand and help you find alternative solutions that are good for us all. There can be negotiation and compromise. It can be Win-Win.

    What you're doing now is just take-it-or-leave-it.
  • -bubufina
    -bubufina Posts: 5 Just Dropped In
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    I've been playing since aug/sept 2016, and got my wife into the game soon after. I'm probably more of the mid-tier player you describe, whereas she's less advanced. Different skill-levels but we both agree on one thing: the update is terrible.

    For her, she's considering whether or not to drop the game completely due to the speed at which she'll accumulate crystals and obtain any higher level rewards. For me, the events are stale and the excitement of having new additional events was crushed as soon as I realized you had to pay to enter and didn't at least have the chance to recoup cost of entry in the same currency. The new purple currency may seem great, but doesn't even factor for me because the rate at which I'd gain enough to matter completely destroys its value.

    Overall, was pretty satisfied with the game pre-update and would play daily, probably for too many hours. Post-update I don't find myself wanting to play nearly as much and probably looking at retirement soon.

    Oh, putting the for-purchase events on the activity page where they're easily accidentally joined with no confirmation button just feels completely shady too. icon_lol.gif
  • toastie
    toastie Posts: 119 Tile Toppler
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    Brigby wrote:
    nexus13 wrote:
    I don't understand why you want to keep the duplicate solution completely secret. That's just an idiotic idea, you really want to work on a system for months and then release it to have it fall flat like the current rune system? If you could tell us some of the plans now you could get some feedback and tweak it before release so the rollout goes smoother. We just need the high level view, the basic premise of what is being planned.
    We are not purposefully trying to keep it a secret. This feature is still being developed, which means certain details might change. We don't want to say one thing, find out later on there are issues preventing those details from happening, and then end up telling players we've ended up changing them. Once we receive confirmed information from the team, we will be sure to communicate that to all of you.

    I for one would rather you give us some idea of what is going on and let us know if you change it, rather than leaving us in the dark about a fix to one of the biggest issues with the game. You have literally no idea if we are even going to like your idea, and you have shown that you can't really be trusted to deliver an update that doesn't alienate players.

    One of the things we want as a community is more transparency.
  • THEMAGICkMAN
    THEMAGICkMAN Posts: 697 Critical Contributor
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    Alright, we're supposed to be able to chase a single mythic... But then what happens if we are chasing lightning runner from the current pack, buy 2 of them and get one of the worst mythics in the game, yahenni. what then cthulu? this system is stupid, you should have made it like this, and how I thought it would go from reading the pre-release notes:

    you can choose 1 mythic out of the lot, and use your 400 jewels on that.
    there is a chance it will be upgraded to a masterpiece, a random one out of the whole set, and you cannot get a duplicate masterpiece - once you have a specific masterpiece, it then becomes unattainable to you, so you can't get dupes


    what are the problems of this system? Why not do it this way? Extremely disappointing,

    Not. Another. Dime.
  • Dologan
    Dologan Posts: 145 Tile Toppler
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    Although I don't necessarily agree with it, I can more or less understand the argument that the guaranteed Mythic for top event rewards was disproportionate.

    However, right now, a Platinum player scoring at the top of every coalition event both personally and per coalition, can expect to earn no more than about 150 iso8.png per week (90 from Breaking Point, 60 from Revolt against the Consulate). As the 400 iso8.png Elite Packs cycle content every couple of weeks, this means that not even the absolute 10 or so top players in the entire game (the 0.05%, the elite of the elite) deserve, according to the developers, even a single free shot at each Elite pack, at least without additionally acing some seven of the Trials events (are there even that many in a fortnight?), for some 350-420 crystals, which, by my estimation, would probably make up most if not all of the crystal earnings of the events themselves. Elite Pack indeed, unless, of course, you open your wallet and fork some $100. I think even some beggars make that much in a couple of weeks.

    How so very proportionate it is now...
  • voodoo_gremlin
    voodoo_gremlin Posts: 61 Match Maker
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    How dare you!
    How dare you, take a week of anger and hatred and rage directed at your product and say "Screw you! Its perfect the way it is, suck it up" .
    Then all you offer is this vague promise of mechanics we've been asking for for months.

    I wasn't expecting much from D3, but an apology would've been nice.

    Did you take away the attendance figures from events because there are so many people leaving your game?

    What your doing isn't working. Revert to the previous patch.

    Not. One. Dime. More.
  • Infested
    Infested Posts: 98 Match Maker
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    I get that there needed to be a way to remove the mythic from the top levels as it would become more difficult for lower tiers to gain any at all. But now it has been replaced with a system that strips mythics from everyone. The rate on these crystals needs to increase by 3 to 6 times what they currently are. If I feel like I have no chance at getting a reasonable rate then I (like others) dont want to even participate and I see no reason to try to increase this with any kind of product purchase.

    The events are a good idea. I liked playing the daily and the weekend ones; however I won't be joining the daily one any more due to the required crystal purchase. I would have to trade the ability to purchase planeswalkers that I am missing or other packs in the vault that I want (origins, bfz,soi) for kaladesh. I want more options not one or the other. This system also really hurts the bottem half of the players which is in contrast to the first paragraph. They cannot aford it and are better off getting guaranteed rares, so there is less mythics for them and the ones who get first in other events can aford the daily event.

    Please remove the cost of the new daily and remove the booster pack. Let everyone into them.

    Increase purple crystals across the board so I feel like I can make progress. Right now the majority of my crystals came from the in game gift.
  • nexus13
    nexus13 Posts: 191 Tile Toppler
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    Brigby wrote:
    nexus13 wrote:
    I don't understand why you want to keep the duplicate solution completely secret. That's just an idiotic idea, you really want to work on a system for months and then release it to have it fall flat like the current rune system? If you could tell us some of the plans now you could get some feedback and tweak it before release so the rollout goes smoother. We just need the high level view, the basic premise of what is being planned.
    We are not purposefully trying to keep it a secret. This feature is still being developed, which means certain details might change. We don't want to say one thing, find out later on there are issues preventing those details from happening, and then end up telling players we've ended up changing them. Once we receive confirmed information from the team, we will be sure to communicate that to all of you.

    The point is you only get "confirmed information" when the work is essentially done and it is too late to do much about it. Give us the general outline of what is being proposed and you can get some feedback while it can still make a difference.
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
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    What about no confirm button being on the Trials events? Several players, including me have entered them by accident -- because the join button is right where you scroll if you are right handed.

    You should click "join" and then have to pay your entrance fee from another screen.

    Forcing someone to spend 60 crystals and then not refunding them when we report it is fraud and frankly ****.

    I accidentally entered yesterday and had no intention of playing the event as I had to work. So I basically paid 60 crystals for nothing.

    One of the many reasons I'm sticking to

    Not. Another. Dime.
  • MTG_Mage
    MTG_Mage Posts: 224 Tile Toppler
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    Cthulhu wrote:
    We are definitely releasing Deck Slots soon! That is coming.

    Going to review the comments and answer throughout the day.
    If you say your going to review comments, here is an example of one thread that has a point form list of what needs attention
    viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61405
  • Sorin81
    Sorin81 Posts: 545 Critical Contributor
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    A gentleman should always maintain his composure.
    So, deep breath. Find my center. Begin.

    Brigby,
    You mentioned in another thread that you were compiling a feedback report for the dev team. I would be very interested in seeing that report myself. I am curious to know how a week of overwhelmingly negative feedback warranted such an underwhelming response.
    Cthulhu wrote:
    We are definitely releasing Deck Slots soon! That is coming.

    Going to review the comments and answer throughout the day.

    While I appreciate your intentions, they would be received more openly if you were to not vanish immediately after posting.
    The fact that out of all the comments that have been made you chose to answer one that has already been answered and has nothing to do with this update does nothing to inspire confidence either.

    I am not a new player. Nor am I one of the "elite" players. I am not in a top coalition. I play mostly for progression rather than ranking. I am not a competitive player for the most part but I could be. I am in Gold tier but could easily move to Platinum. I choose not to.
    Before the release of this failure of an update (make no mistake this is an overall failure) I had considered both progressing to Platinum and opening my wallet to support a game that I enjoyed and had some faith in. I must thank you for helping me to make the decision to keep my money. This new update is a slap in the face to all players and a blatant money grab so to reiterate the sentiment of my fellow players:

    Not. One. Dime.
    Not. Another. Dime.

    I have never rated an app. I don't normally do things like that. If I don't like it I uninstall it. This situation is unique for me. I still enjoy playing the game, although it is no longer as rewarding and enjoyable as it once was, but the obviously short-sighted and player unfriendly direction the game is being taken I will have to give it a very poor rating.

    To everyone in the community,
    I would love to quote you all. You are all on point and so much better at making those points than I would be.
  • MisterPete
    MisterPete Posts: 18 Just Dropped In
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    Brigby wrote:
    I don't know the exact details of the new system, so converting previously hoarded duplicates might not be an available option, just for the sake of fairness to everyone.

    Please keep in mind that this is not in fact "fair to everyone". The people that have been carefully holding on to their duplicates have had to work harder this whole time to level up all their planeswalkers. Not allowing them to utilize any of their duplicates would be penalizing them. There are definitely a number of these players, at least in the top players (and I imagine top paying players). Given that there have been indications in the past that duplicates might have another use it's understandable that some players have been working hard to keep them.

    I recognize that allowing existing duplicates in a new conversion would make a lot of players that already converted all their duplicates feel they missed out. Maybe there is some middle ground. For example, a once time allowance for converting your extra runes into duplicate rares for whatever the new system allows you do to with them. That way you can still allow existing duplicates to be utilized without many people feeling too bad.

    Perhaps even more importantly, if it doesn't work on existing duplicates then it doesn't help anyone that has to feel bad getting a dupe from now until the system comes out. We'll still feel horrible when we get a duplicate, especially a mythic from an elite pack. And it may be months we need to wait.

    Please have the new system work with existing duplicates.
  • gruntface
    gruntface Posts: 161 Tile Toppler
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    Existing duplicates should be automatically converted into runes (at the same rate they currently are) at a certain cutoff point after which any new system should kick in.

    There was never any promise (to my knowledge) that a duplicate mythic had value other than 1000 runes as much as that sucked and players who hoarded in the hope of getting more than than don't have a right to such. Neither should they lose out and get nothing, but people who did convert (whether they needed the runes or simply hated the massive convert runes button that covered the inventory) shouldn't lose out either.

    PS If there actually was a memo that holding duplicates had any promised value, please ignore everything above and add me to the torch waving mob (though also provide me with a tissue to wipe away the tears of all that missed hoarding opportunity).
  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 971 Critical Contributor
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    Cthulhu wrote:
    We are definitely releasing Deck Slots soon! That is coming.

    Going to review the comments and answer throughout the day.
    Dear cthulhu. I'm going to answer this in the same vein as the original post you (were asked to) make.

    I dont care.....


    So getti g that out of the way. Im gonna ask you this:

    So you are only looking at feedback today? All the screaming bloody murder the last week doesnt count as feedback?

    Go ahead, read all you want. Your response has said it all. You (d3go/hybernium) dont care, you'll do what you want anyway.

    Either truly fix this or go placate people somewhere else. We dont need placating.
  • AlanA1
    AlanA1 Posts: 6 Just Dropped In
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    All the negative feedback has been said, got nothing to add.

    Now a bit of positive:
    I'm glad that the incoming Breaking Point Event has got much bigger rewards.
    I'm glad that you made the Battle Log.
    I like the change that in some events you only play against other PWs that were chosen for this event, not the randomly chosen PW from the whole collection. I think this should be implemented in every event, so that e.g. in **** you battle only one of the 3 decks people made for **** etc.
  • MightyKrakyn
    MightyKrakyn Posts: 64
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    AlanA1 wrote:
    Now a bit of positive:
    I'm glad that the incoming Breaking Point Event has got much bigger rewards.

    Through the lens of a cynic, the higher rewards are to entice people to purchase Saheeli so they can meet progression.

    Also, it appears this new event replaces Inventor's Fair, which had just as good of rewards. And if it follows that logic, this event happens once every new planeswalker, so in about a month when they give us Ajani, and then another month when they give us Tezzeret2.

    So...one big carrot to get you through several weeks of stick.
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
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    Dologan wrote:
    Although I don't necessarily agree with it, I can more or less understand the argument that the guaranteed Mythic for top event rewards was disproportionate.

    However, right now, a Platinum player scoring at the top of every coalition event both personally and per coalition, can expect to earn no more than about 150 iso8.png per week (90 from Breaking Point, 60 from Revolt against the Consulate). As the 400 iso8.png Elite Packs cycle content every couple of weeks, this means that not even the absolute 10 or so top players in the entire game (the 0.05%, the elite of the elite) deserve, according to the developers, even a single free shot at each Elite pack, at least without additionally acing some seven of the Trials events (are there even that many in a fortnight?), for some 350-420 crystals, which, by my estimation, would probably make up most if not all of the crystal earnings of the events themselves. Elite Pack indeed, unless, of course, you open your wallet and fork some $100. I think even some beggars make that much in a couple of weeks.

    How so very proportionate it is now...
    Based on my personal understanding of Masterpieces, they are supposed to be very powerful, but very rare cards. I believe the intention is not for players to be able to obtain a bunch of them each rotation period, as this slow acquisition rate is an attempt to slow down power creep.

    I would imagine this power-creep-slowdown treatment was also given to Mythics too. Instead of only the top players getting a guaranteed Mythic, a now larger population of players get Mana Jewels which can be accumulated to acquire a guaranteed Mythic from Elite Packs. This way players ranked lower than just the top couple of spots get a progressive chance at obtaining a guaranteed Mythic, instead of being consistently denied the reward by top players.

    TL;DR: Masterpieces take time and effort to obtain, but very powerful. Mid-Tier players have quicker, more consistent way of obtaining Mythics whereas Top-Tier players no longer consistently receive Mythics from events, but they still progress faster than everyone.
    MisterPete wrote:
    -snip- I recognize that allowing existing duplicates in a new conversion would make a lot of players that already converted all their duplicates feel they missed out. Maybe there is some middle ground. For example, a once time allowance for converting your extra runes into duplicate rares for whatever the new system allows you do to with them. That way you can still allow existing duplicates to be utilized without many people feeling too bad.

    Perhaps even more importantly, if it doesn't work on existing duplicates then it doesn't help anyone that has to feel bad getting a dupe from now until the system comes out. -snip-
    I trimmed your quote a bit, to keep it concise. This wouldn't be a bad idea, but I worry that there might not be a way to automate that.

    My personal suggestion (Edit: And apparently gruntface's as well!) would be to have the hoarded duplicates only be allowed rune conversions. Any duplicates obtained after the system is implemented would utilize the system instead. (Granted a lot of this is speculation on how the system works, so please take some of this with a grain of salt)
  • MightyKrakyn
    MightyKrakyn Posts: 64
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    Brigby wrote:
    TL;DR: Masterpieces take time and effort to obtain, but very powerful. Mid-Tier players have quicker, more consistent way of obtaining Mythics whereas Top-Tier no longer consistently receive Mythics from events, but they still progress faster than everyone.

    Faster than everyone is a snail's pace. I'm gold tier, but would probably be considered a mid to top tier player, not through sandbagging or anything. Just not going out of my way to master cards.

    You took away several of my mid tier options for getting mythics, like the "or better" portion of "guaranteed rare or better" in previous Big Boxes (now premium packs) or reducing my crystal rewards so much that I can't by enough of premium packs to have a chance at a mythic. Not they they drop them in any kind of measurable rate anyway. Do you see where I'm coming from?
  • voodoo_gremlin
    voodoo_gremlin Posts: 61 Match Maker
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    Brigby wrote:
    Dologan wrote:
    MisterPete wrote:
    -snip- I recognize that allowing existing duplicates in a new conversion would make a lot of players that already converted all their duplicates feel they missed out. Maybe there is some middle ground. For example, a once time allowance for converting your extra runes into duplicate rares for whatever the new system allows you do to with them. That way you can still allow existing duplicates to be utilized without many people feeling too bad.

    Perhaps even more importantly, if it doesn't work on existing duplicates then it doesn't help anyone that has to feel bad getting a dupe from now until the system comes out. -snip-
    I trimmed your quote a bit, to keep it concise. This wouldn't be a bad idea, but I worry that there might not be a way to automate that.

    My personal suggestion (Edit: And apparently gruntface's as well!) would be to have the hoarded duplicates only be allowed rune conversions. Any duplicates obtained after the system is implemented would utilize the system instead. (Granted a lot of this is speculation on how the system works, so please take some of this with a grain of salt)

    This is something we've been asking for since converting duplicates has been a thing. A lot of people, myself included, have been hoarding their duplicates for a while (since the beginning of January). Now that its a possibility your saying that converting older cards might not happen or its too hard to code. I don't know if you've noticed a lot of us are REALLY ticked off right now. I would suggest you let the programmers know that we would be displeased if a trade-in system were implemented and our hoarded cards wouldn't count.

    Thank you

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