Heroic Chapter 3 PVE Change

Unknown

LordWill wrote:

So my daughter wanted to chime in...

http://youtu.be/g2vxvKkuybU

Out of the mouths of babes....

Enjoy!

Ha! The face she pulls after hearing lv400 enemies sums it up nicely.

Unknown

Just want to weigh in now that round 2 is underway.

Despite having a **** performance (imo) and tanking often, my levels still increased into round 2.

Yes, I still placed top 20 and could've placed top 10 if I really wanted to, but that's besides the point.

1. I could not beat many of the missions (a first).
2. Even the missions I could beat weren't particularly fun.

If the purpose of scaling was to reduce playtime, at least for me, it failed. # of matches to win was reduced, but overall playtime was increased due to how much I lost and spent matches to heal.

I'd rather grind medium missions than grind prologue missions to heal after every hard mission.

I could rely on natural healing and packs but imo this is not natural. I like to do an hour or two of quality uninterrupted playtime. Not play 10 minutes, wait 20, play 10, wait 20, play 10, wait 20, repeat ad nauseum.

I think this scaling could work if health packs allowed storage of about 20 or so to allow a bigger continuous flow of gameplay. 5 allows 2, maybe 3 matches, which takes 10 minutes to complete. This would interrupt pvp however, which is less demanding on health.

I also think tanking should be removed. I like the idea if persistent health instead (see the thread on it) as a mechanic to alleviate failure.

Unknown

I've now done a couple of deliberate suicide run with the ones I'm not using, though the nature of the limited roster makes that something I can only do occasionally. Levels are higher than they were at the end of the first run-through, which seems like bad scaling design, especially considering I was only top 100 on both of them the first time.

Unknown

Ben Grimm wrote:

I've now done a couple of deliberate suicide run with the ones I'm not using, though the nature of the limited roster makes that something I can only do occasionally. Levels are higher than they were at the end of the first run-through, which seems like bad scaling design, especially considering I was only top 100 on both of them the first time.

But I don't think that how well you place affects the scaling much, if at all. Like many others have guessed, I'm thinking we're seeing people who beat nodes they can beat and avoiding the ones they can't - and whether this strategy puts them in the top 10 (through taking advantage of rubberbanding) or the bottom 1000, the game is still "seeing" that you've played 12 matches and won 90% of them (or whatever) and scaling you up, although you're not being scaled up as quickly or severely as someone who played 50 matches and won 90% of them.

Good luck on the suicide runs, although those don't seem to be effective either

Unknown

gamar wrote:

Good luck on the suicide runs, although those don't seem to be effective either

They may not be, but since less than half of them are intentional, I'm hoping I get something out of them, even if it's just playable nodes. My ambition at this point is "win each node once."

LordWill

Just had a quick thought....maybe I should paste this in suggestions....

So what if you had like a choose your own difficulty? So you see the match of 3 enemies-You do not see their levels. Before you go into the match you select, easy, medium, hard, deadly or whatever. Then based upon what YOU select and what challenge YOU want, the rewards/points scale accordingly.

This eliminates the need for Demiurge to sufficiently challenge me because I can challenge myself and play how I want to play.

This eliminates the needs for scaling because if I only do the easy, then I don't make a lot of points or iso. Just like how we can get 20 iso from a prologue mission. I'm in control of my scaling.

This eliminates people complaining about their individual PVE rating because they will be more in control of it. If they want to do deadly and get the 300 iso reward plus mega points, then go for it.

It would reward strong rosters without punishing the weaker ones. And it would give people something to strive for....

Also it allows EVERYONE to do the content to whatever degree they feel they can handle. So this way they don't miss out on the content/storyline.

What do you guys think?

Unknown

LordWill wrote:

Just had a quick thought....maybe I should paste this in suggestions....

So what if you had like a choose your own difficulty? So you see the match of 3 enemies-You do not see their levels. Before you go into the match you select, easy, medium, hard, deadly or whatever. Then based upon what YOU select and what challenge YOU want, the rewards/points scale accordingly.

This eliminates the need for Demiurge to sufficiently challenge me because I can challenge myself and play how I want to play.

This eliminates the needs for scaling because if I only do the easy, then I don't make a lot of points or iso. Just like how we can get 20 iso from a prologue mission. I'm in control of my scaling.

This eliminates people complaining about their individual PVE rating because they will be more in control of it. If they want to do deadly and get the 300 iso reward plus mega points, then go for it.

It would reward strong rosters without punishing the weaker ones. And it would give people something to strive for....

Also it allows EVERYONE to do the content to whatever degree they feel they can handle. So this way they don't miss out on the content/storyline.

What do you guys think?

In the past I've suggested that as many times as a player wants, they should be able to knock 10 levels off each member of the enemy team in exchange for 10% less event points (or whatever figures make sense to prevent players from taking advantage of the system)

reckless442

Ben Grimm wrote:

gamar wrote:

Good luck on the suicide runs, although those don't seem to be effective either

They may not be, but since less than half of them are intentional, I'm hoping I get something out of them, even if it's just playable nodes. My ambition at this point is "win each node once."

Since I'm not joining a bracket until later, because I don't have time to grind deadly mode, I've done at least a dozen suicide runs on the first node in deadly. I'm using three teams -- two low-level tank teams and my A-team (190 HT, 141 BP, 141 Psylocke.) That node began with Venom at 170 and the goons at 171. My efforts have resulted in the node dropping to Venom at 169 and the goons at 170.

Unknown

reckless442 wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

gamar wrote:

Good luck on the suicide runs, although those don't seem to be effective either

They may not be, but since less than half of them are intentional, I'm hoping I get something out of them, even if it's just playable nodes. My ambition at this point is "win each node once."

Since I'm not joining a bracket until later, because I don't have time to grind deadly mode, I've done at least a dozen suicide runs on the first node in deadly. I'm using three teams -- two low-level tank teams and my A-team (190 HT, 141 BP, 141 Psylocke.) That node began with Venom at 170 and the goons at 171. My efforts have resulted in the node dropping to Venom at 169 and the goons at 170.

Woo-hoo! Progress! Now do that 1,200 more times and the node will be nice and easy.

bahamut685

kevind722 wrote:

Let's not forget they plan on nerfing Spidey soon. Then where will we be?

No they don't... He's like number 4(?) on their list, and they've stated that the fun-balance list is on the back-burner, which is why nobody expects X-Force to ever be anything besides terrible.

Unknown

bahamut685 wrote:

kevind722 wrote:

Let's not forget they plan on nerfing Spidey soon. Then where will we be?

No they don't... He's like number 4(?) on their list, and they've stated that the fun-balance list is on the back-burner, which is why nobody expects X-Force to ever be anything besides terrible.

They'll probably balance him about the same time I finish his covers. Let's see, I've been playing 5 months, and have 2 covers for him, at that rate, 10 weeks per cover, 130 weeks from early November 2013....

He'll be useful in Mid-May of 2016. It's Science!

LordWill

I went ahead and made a formal thread. I hope you guys can give some feedback and see if we can't get this into the game

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6219

bahamut685

IceIX wrote:

We're trying out a change to help out scaling overall starting in Heroic Chapter 3, to go Live very soon.

- Smoothed scaling over all brackets of PVE rating so that players will see a more gradual bump on enemies

- Keep in mind that some pins will still be harder than others, this just makes the huge instant bumps less prevalent, although if you join on second one then come in 20 hours later, you should expect to see a change due to Community Scaling.

- Smoothed the route back down in PVE rating if you're losing in missions so that enemies will get easier quicker. We've put in brakes however so that you can't just retreat your way to easy-dom.
- Increased the maximum level of enemies from 230 to 400. >230 enemies are intended to only regularly be seen by those players that are already beating up on 230s.

Increasing the maximum enemy level allows us to provide more challenges for the players that are higher in overall roster level and not create a roadblock where those players that are beating down 230s with ease are making scaling work harder for all the other players who aren't there yet.

What about if instead, d3 simply followed through with the months old promise to fun-balance Spidey and Mags? Then there'd be no need for boosting enemies past 230 (since when those of us without fully covered Spidey/Mags face 230s we burn a bunch of boosts and barely scrape though (or just lose) the match.

Polares

This 400 lvl is a very bad move, it just aggravates the gap between new players and the old ones (it keeps getting easier and easier to new players).

Then, why lvl 400? So it is more difficult to some? But then you should give more rewards if it is going to be more difficult for some players than to others. Right now PvE is a game about grinding and knowing the meta game not facing diffult battles. If now the paradigm changes and we have more focus on difficulty then there are a lot of other thing that need to change, you can't just rise the difficulty to some and don't give nothing on return. This is very unffair, and it is not very fun to face a lvl 400 Daken, Ares or Juggernaut.

And then there is the thing that nobody asked for this, why make this change when there are so many things people is asking for? (nerfs and buffs, single player, etc.).

This game needs a serious rethinking in the PvE department...

Unknown

heroes regen after fight is the main problem
actually, i perfect everything with low ball team modern storm / mordern thor / OBW.
once u get 6 red and 10 green, u can perfect them with 0 more damage but keep on grind until a timer reach 1 and u can't destroy it.

then, Red strom, green strom, add a yellow thor when map need more green and repeat !
u can use it in pvp too, and perfect any 141 team, kill a 12k hulk without any anger apply, but ennemy will faceroll your strom as long as we can't tank low hp heroes in pvp.

Unknown

Well, having taken my time to more fully experience the PvE scaling change I can safely say it's literally ****.

Firstly fights become ridiculously long (assuming you're going to win them). They were bad enough at lv230 but at >230 (highest i've had the "pleasure" of is 348-9) they are just stupidly longwinded. There's not a lot of fun in slowly grinding through Hp of perma stunned targets which leads to...

Secondly you introduced a mechanic aimed at ppl using spiderman in PvE and it basically FORCES ppl to use spiderman in PvE. I was happily wandering though not using him at all then scaling slams into overdrive and I have no choice. It's not just a matter of trying to avoid damage, it's a matter of it being unwinnable without him. YOU basically forced me to use the hero YOU think is unbalanced.... ironic huh?

Finally... you've made the game into Russian roulette. Either I get the blue AP I need (and/or purple since using MMN is the only safe way to play assuming it's not a hero required node) before pretty much any ability fires or I lose. Ares was hitting for over 850 damage per green AP on Onslaught. So 2 green matches is over 5k damage. Hell, even match damage is insane at that point. My lvl 130 Patch got reduced from full health to exactly 150 health by a 3 match which cascaded into a 5, crit 3 then a follow up 4 match. Normally cascades are an issue because of the accrued AP but that was JUST match damage.

So basically now I start a match with Spidey in tow (no choice), look at the board and see if there's likely to be the blue +/- purple matches i'll need. If not I instantly retreat, heal in prologue, try again, rinse, repeat. I used health packs reasonably often if I was enjoying playing and took damage but I literally refuse to use them on this **** ****.....

EDIT: By "used health packs" I meant i'd use free ones then spend Hp on a few more if I was enjoying myself.

Unknown

Polares wrote:

This 400 lvl is a very bad move, it just aggravates the gap between new players and the old ones (it keeps getting easier and easier to new players).

Then, why lvl 400? So it is more difficult to some? But then you should give more rewards if it is going to be more difficult for some players than to others. Right now PvE is a game about grinding and knowing the meta game not facing diffult battles. If now the paradigm changes and we have more focus on difficulty then there are a lot of other thing that need to change, you can't just rise the difficulty to some and don't give nothing on return. This is very unffair, and it is not very fun to face a lvl 400 Daken, Ares or Juggernaut.

And then there is the thing that nobody asked for this, why make this change when there are so many things people is asking for? (nerfs and buffs, single player, etc.).

This game needs a serious rethinking in the PvE department...

The best player in my alliance just quit the game, he got tired of facing these overpowered enemies, he's got a good team of 141's, always breaking 1000+ on pvp's, but these **** going on on pve was just to much, **** sucks

Unknown

So everything scales except the rewards...

Seriously, adding more hp and dmg to enemies doesn't make the game more complex or challenging, it just makes it less fun.

This game is horribly repetitive. The change not only adds more repetition but adds more wait times for healing and stun chipping.

Punishing people who do well is a pretty terrible idea and makes no sense at all.


Just Add more game modes and more heroes and everything will be fine.

Unknown

yea, or nerf that **** spidey stun so ppl will not faceroll ennemy and scaling will be better when ppl reach 200+ wall.

magneto and spidey nerf are really needed, and that before than kickass 3* daken comes.

kensterr

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