Heroic Chapter 3 PVE Change

Moral

I'll get to test my 'creativity' shortly. 330 for the first deadly nodes

Unknown

Wow good luck

warcin

Thanks for destroying PVE once again. You finally got it after more than a month to the point where it was not just painful to even consider and then you go and destroyed it again.

Unknown

As long as the scaling stays the same (as it currently exists), I'm okay with it. I've figured out how to play just enough to where my scaling never gets higher than 150's. Which leaves a nice 3-4 minute match to zip through and get my allotment of rubberbanded points to stay in contention.

Unknown

I'm not sure if this has been asked before but this is something that's been boggling me for a while now...

Why does community scaling exist in PvE? Couldn't this situation be resolved if Players 1, 2 and 3 actions didn't affect each other?

Why not eliminate community scaling and just increase personal scaling? If 1500 players are beating a node easily while another 500 are having a difficult time, why not just increase their individual scaling for those 1500 people?

The difficulty for a particular player should be based solely on his own performance, not someone else's.

Unknown

Even using spidey against lvl 230 is not an instant win, devil dino or jugs can easily down any character with only 5 greens or reds, same with some of the soldiers and maggia, at lvl 230 they were making over 6k in damage with only 1 tile........now you are raising them to 400? at that level a freaking pyro is going to one shot my whole team and don't get me started on dino, jugs, daken or venom

With this change people are going to spend as much time tanking that playing, a game is supposed to be fun, challenging but fun, and you guys are taking all the fun away.....this new idea sucks.

NorthernPolarity

sinnerjfl wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

sinnerjfl wrote:

Do you not realize that while fighting lvl 230's is hard enough as it is, most of our rosters can only go to lvl 141?

The AI might be dumb as bricks but when you add ONE HUNDRED levels to the enemy, it more than makes up for it. Knowing how well you guys implemented scaling before, this sure is gonna go well isnt it?

Think you're missing the point of scaling. We've been beating level 230s with 141s: the idea is that they want to scale enemies to a point where it's actually challenging to the playerbase.

Can you do that reliably without Spider-Man? Lvl 230 Daken without stunlock, every match will hit for like 1000 dmg after a few turns, how the hell do you beat that?

My point was that scaling was intended to make the nodes equally challenging for the entire playerbase. This means that if the nodes hit 230 in the first place, then there must be people who can beat those nodes at that level. I beat the hard level 180 Daken node last heroic with level 100 IM40, level 85 A. Wolvie and level 1 mBW with boosts, and if that level of difficulty is doable with that team composition, then level 230+ Daken nodes are definitely doable with a higher power leveled roster that doesn't involve Spidey.

firethorne

Knock3r wrote:

The difficulty for a particular player should be based solely on his own performance, not someone else's.

Exactly! Let PvE actually be PvE. Don't try to formulate some ridiculous scaling system where level 141 rosters compete in brackets with level 50s. Strip out competition, make it all progression rewards. Like the simulator, you can have an easy mode and hard mode. Let hard mode have better rewards. Equal rewards for equal work. Better rosters can get further along.

Unknown

Maybe the plan is to allow for level 400 enemies one time and then no one will ever complain about level 230 enemies EVER AGAIN haha.

Unknown

sinnerjfl wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

sinnerjfl wrote:

Do you not realize that while fighting lvl 230's is hard enough as it is, most of our rosters can only go to lvl 141?

The AI might be dumb as bricks but when you add ONE HUNDRED levels to the enemy, it more than makes up for it. Knowing how well you guys implemented scaling before, this sure is gonna go well isnt it?

Think you're missing the point of scaling. We've been beating level 230s with 141s: the idea is that they want to scale enemies to a point where it's actually challenging to the playerbase.

Can you do that reliably without Spider-Man? Lvl 230 Daken without stunlock, every match will hit for like 1000 dmg after a few turns, how the hell do you beat that?

Yes, it can be reliably done without spidey stun lock. I did it in the Red ISO event against the 230 Daken/Bullseye/Maggia without Spidey, and without any problem whatsoever.

Twysta

Almost every change to PvE since... I think when they first ran the Hulk events in December has made me want to play less and less.

Increasing levels to 400 just doesn't seem right.
I would've thought that it would make more sense that if they wanted to balance the scaling a bit more with higher levels that with the tedium of 230's as is, that if they wanted to raise the level maximum (of 230) that they could do it by background processes. So while the player still see's 230 ( ) The game would see it going to a higher cap limit.

I can kind of understand the decision for increasing it, but considering that the scaling is already not perfect this could very well end in tears.
I'm still not a fan of level scaling in it's current form especially with the (current) lack of reward progression.

I really hope I'm proven wrong though and this works out for the best... for everyone, or the majority.

Puritas

IceIX wrote:

Player 2 can fight 230s and win fairly easily. They may be healing in battle, they may be stunlocking, they may be that good. They're still beating the 230 encounters without issue.

By raising the bar to 400, we've left room for Player 2 to grow while essentially pushing Player 1 into the same position Player 3 now enjoys.

I'd like to raise the point that winning through healing/stunlocking vs 230s takes a solid 8-10 minutes instead of the 2-3 minutes each that players have when they haven't hit the scaling wall.
Extra 5-8 minutes per fight in an event is hardly "without issue" in my book, considering that means an extra 4+ hours of my life gone to get the same result.

Thankfully I discovered dropping the required two characters that made those fights "fairly easy" gave the game experience room to grow for me a week or so before I ragequit.

Unknown

Puritas wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Player 2 can fight 230s and win fairly easily. They may be healing in battle, they may be stunlocking, they may be that good. They're still beating the 230 encounters without issue.

By raising the bar to 400, we've left room for Player 2 to grow while essentially pushing Player 1 into the same position Player 3 now enjoys.

I'd like to raise the point that winning through healing/stunlocking vs 230s takes a solid 8-10 minutes instead of the 2-3 minutes each that players have when they haven't hit the scaling wall.
Extra 5-8 minutes per fight in an event is hardly "without issue" in my book, considering that means an extra 4+ hours of my life gone to get the same result.

Thankfully I discovered dropping the required two characters that made those fights "fairly easy" gave the game experience room to grow for me a week or so before I ragequit.

If the rewards improve for beating higher leveled baddies, would that keep you from rage quitting for another week? Because I think that the extra difficulty (therefore additional time) per match should be rewarded also. It would frustrate me to know that an hour of my time is spent in six matches against level 230+++ enemies and earning 120 iso vs a player with a more limited roster spends an hour of their time in 30 matches and earns way more iso.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Increasing the maximum enemy level allows us to provide more challenges for the players that are higher in overall roster level and not create a roadblock where those players that are beating down 230s with ease are making scaling work harder for all the other players who aren't there yet.

GUYS, GUYS, GUYS... try to look on the brighter side of things. Two PvE events from now when the limit cap becomes lvl 640 because everyone's hitting the 400 wall, you'll look back at this moment and laugh.

over_clocked

locked wrote:

Community scaling:

I feel so short-sighted! So unappreciative of the devs' resourcefulness.

Unknown

Knock3r wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Increasing the maximum enemy level allows us to provide more challenges for the players that are higher in overall roster level and not create a roadblock where those players that are beating down 230s with ease are making scaling work harder for all the other players who aren't there yet.

GUYS, GUYS, GUYS... try to look on the brighter side of things. Two PvE events from now when the limit cap becomes lvl 640 because everyone's hitting the 400 wall, you'll look back at this moment and laugh.

And the people with 5 blue spideys will be complaining that he's not overpowered but that these missions would be impossible without him.

GumisK

The whole idea is straightforward insane. The solution to the scaling issue is not tuning it up even more. Im' sure I'm not gonna bother fighting those 300 or even 400 level monstrosities, even though I have a maxed Spidey on my roster. It's just too tiresome, stressful and completely opposed to fun, and do we need to remind the devs that video games are meant to be fun? As in having a good time? I've already proposed this a few times, on different occasions, but I will again: if you're so concerned with Spidey and C. Mags being unbalanced and harmful to PvE, then ban them from those tourneys straight away. No more using them in PvE, ever. I'll be OK with that, if it stops unreasonable changes like this one. And if you want people to be satisfied with scaling, let the events scale individually, for God's sake! What's with the whole concept of community scaling? Why is it so sacred? I'm rather disturbed with where the game is going right now.

NorthernPolarity

Another random thought: scaling makes me actively NOT want to play the event. If I'm grinding nodes for rewards, then I'm increasing my MMR and scaling, which I obviously do not want. I can't simply pick up the game and grind the nodes randomly anymore: I need to minimize the amount of time spent playing the game if I want to keep nodes at a reasonable level, and ride rubberbanding to victory. A feature that decreases user engagement feels like a bad idea in general.

Clintman

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Another random thought: scaling makes me actively NOT want to play the event. If I'm grinding nodes for rewards, then I'm increasing my MMR and scaling, which I obviously do not want. I can't simply pick up the game and grind the nodes randomly anymore: I need to minimize the amount of time spent playing the game if I want to keep nodes at a reasonable level, and ride rubberbanding to victory. A feature that decreases user engagement feels like a bad idea in general.

OMG THIS^^ It sucks that I avoid playing PVE so that I don't scale my opponents to an unplayable level. I actually strategize to maximize my points with the fewest number of matches possible. How terrible of a situation is that?

Twysta

Well I guess all I can say is...

Whoever came up with this must be great at parties