IceIX wrote: Here's what happens right now with 230s in-game: Player 1 can fight 230s but will come out of it pretty damaged. They're the intended audience for "230s = HARD". They've hit the point where their Deadly/Impossible pins are at that level. Great, fine for just those pins. Player 2 can fight 230s and win fairly easily. They may be healing in battle, they may be stunlocking, they may be that good. They're still beating the 230 encounters without issue. Player 3 can't fight 230s but they can win against 180s decently well. The game sees that the Deadly pin for Player 1 is being beaten regularly by players that are capable of taking down 230s (Player 2). They're both at the high end of PVE rating, so there's no real difference in difficulty as far as the system can see. The game *does* know that users are still defeating those pins pretty easily though, so it raises the floor to try and help difficulty go up for everyone on nodes that were apparently too easy. Player 1 sees that a couple of his Hard pins went to Deadly 200s from 180 as a result of being near the top of scaling while his bretheren is knocking down 230s like nothing. Player 1's game just got harder even though it shouldn't have, but the system has little way of knowing that without adding in much more complexity to the scaling system. Player 3 sees their nodes go from 180 to 185 since their rating isn't as high, so they're affected fairly little but still hit. A theoretical player 4 fighting 90s may be fighting 91s, so no big deal there. By raising the bar to 400, we've left room for Player 2 to grow while essentially pushing Player 1 into the same position Player 3 now enjoys. It's also the reason you see newbies hanging out in the points ranking for so long. They get hit by scaling less because the people that are pushing the community scaling up aren't hitting them as hard (as they shouldn't). They still hit difficult fights relatively quickly though as their individual rating climbs, so that ends up being self balancing by the end of any given PVE Event. Edit: Adding this to the original post for new readers.
kevind722 wrote: so if you get the point about the rewards, is something going to be done?
IceIX wrote: Clintman wrote: -Warning WOW reference inc.- When I took out Lich King on Heroic Mode I got incredible rewards, Joe Casual and his guild of casuals who took out the 10 man normal version did not get the same level of awesome rewards because he did not have to work as hard to get it. What you are doing now is making me fight at the cutting edge of character specialization, using team compositions that are not fun, but required for the same rewards that Joe Casual is getting. Err, you got 271s instead of 253s. Hardly amazing. But point taken in any case.
Clintman wrote: -Warning WOW reference inc.- When I took out Lich King on Heroic Mode I got incredible rewards, Joe Casual and his guild of casuals who took out the 10 man normal version did not get the same level of awesome rewards because he did not have to work as hard to get it. What you are doing now is making me fight at the cutting edge of character specialization, using team compositions that are not fun, but required for the same rewards that Joe Casual is getting.
This comes down to time, a fight taking 10 minutes is terrible. It is not fair to make me use a stunlock team that takes forever to beat this node. The risk vs reward is the piece that you are missing. -Warning WOW reference inc.- When I took out Lich King on Heroic Mode I got incredible rewards, Joe Casual and his guild of casuals who took out the 10 man normal version did not get the same level of awesome rewards because he did not have to work as hard to get it. What you are doing now is making me fight at the cutting edge of character specialization, using team compositions that are not fun, but required for the same rewards that Joe Casual is getting.
LoreNYC wrote: Hoping this means that a 400 single opponent could be viable instead of 3 * 230 Probably not what they're thinking but before there are 7 or 8 230s on everyone's roster, upping the top end to 400 is completely ridiculous
sinnerjfl wrote: Do you not realize that while fighting lvl 230's is hard enough as it is, most of our rosters can only go to lvl 141? The AI might be dumb as bricks but when you add ONE HUNDRED levels to the enemy, it more than makes up for it. Knowing how well you guys implemented scaling before, this sure is gonna go well isnt it?
kevind722 wrote: Does this sound like communism to anyone else? Those who have more must work harder so that those that have less can reap the same benefits.
IceIX wrote: kevind722 wrote: so if you get the point about the rewards, is something going to be done? It's been talked about, yes. Is there anything to announce at this moment? No. Until things get pinned down, we tend to stay relatively quiet about amorphous features/changes.
Phaserhawk wrote: I'm cool with this, guess what we just got.......Welcome to the Spiderman/C.Mags fun balance!!!!!! No one complained about C.Mags or Spiderman in PvP very much, it was always about their PvE ability, well guess what, you can stunlock but your margin of error is going way down, as you get hit a few times by a lvl 400 and you won't be doing a whole lot.I praise the Devs for this, this is a smart move and a possible answer to all those stunlocker's, you can still do it, but you better becareful.
NorthernPolarity wrote: sinnerjfl wrote: Do you not realize that while fighting lvl 230's is hard enough as it is, most of our rosters can only go to lvl 141? The AI might be dumb as bricks but when you add ONE HUNDRED levels to the enemy, it more than makes up for it. Knowing how well you guys implemented scaling before, this sure is gonna go well isnt it? Think you're missing the point of scaling. We've been beating level 230s with 141s: the idea is that they want to scale enemies to a point where it's actually challenging to the playerbase.
sinnerjfl wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: sinnerjfl wrote: Do you not realize that while fighting lvl 230's is hard enough as it is, most of our rosters can only go to lvl 141? The AI might be dumb as bricks but when you add ONE HUNDRED levels to the enemy, it more than makes up for it. Knowing how well you guys implemented scaling before, this sure is gonna go well isnt it? Think you're missing the point of scaling. We've been beating level 230s with 141s: the idea is that they want to scale enemies to a point where it's actually challenging to the playerbase. Can you do that reliably without Spider-Man? Lvl 230 Daken without stunlock, every match will hit for like 1000 dmg after a few turns, how the hell do you beat that?