**** Wolverine (X-Force) **** [PRE 2015-04]

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  • racanrpa
    racanrpa Posts: 32
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    GrimSkald wrote:
    What’s more, having 4*s dominate play is terrible for the game itself. The game revolves around 3* characters

    Acually, I think the devs were trying to change this. They did say they ll be releasing 4 star.png a lot more. That can mean they are trying to create a new, stable 4 star.png tier.
    I been playing this game since December 2013. Back then the 1-2 star.png transition was a thing to do. I remember having to fight my **** off to get OBW, and now they give them away like candy like every other 2 star.png. You would say that 1 star.png can t win too much in PVP? that s right, but a new, fresh player with a mediocre 1 star.png roster can beat the seeds in any PVP, and that is a posibility to win covers that didn t existed before. And PVE is extremly beginners friendly if you compare with that time
    I m not saying that old times were better, but that 1-2 star.png transition is virtually gone. So the devs may be trying to compensate this, and to give the vets a new carrot to chase. Are they doing it right? That s the question to answer...
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,537 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I do think they intend the 4*s to be more powerful than the 3*s, just not as much as they were originally perceived. I think the main failing there is that D3 gives more credit to some abilities than we do. This is unfortunately pretty typical - they weight things like board shake, protect tiles, AP reduction, and other special abilities as worth a certain amount of AP, and we frequently think it is way over-costed. But anyway, look at the slate of 4*s - each of them do at least something that is fairly unique. Goddess Thor is the only character fully interacting with charged tiles, Elektra has the only Attack Tile in the game that can't be seen by the opponent and has a unique way of avoiding damage, Star Lord can increase your opponent's or decrease your own AP costs, etc.

    I think the failing on D3's part comes from the fact that these abilities may not be all that practical, and doesn't quite have the impact on the important thing (winning the match with minimal damage) as they would expect. My hope is they're playing around with these concepts, and will start getting them right. Beast is a great example - his blue was just plain awful, then they sort of "fixed" it when they made Rocket and Groot.

    That's the hope anyway. Speaking for myself, I'm going to reserve my judgement on benching X-Force until I see what he can do. I'm hoping he'll still be pretty decent. If not, hopefully they'll tweak him again (I'm looking specifically at his green.)

    Another bright thing - they made a lot of positive changes (albiet minor) to a lot of characters at the same time. That's the first time they've done that without a full rewrite in a while. Hopefully we'll see it more often.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
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    There's no real comparison to Thor/KK now, they're both clearly superior XForce Green. As far as defense, that's another part of the reason I'm leaning at least 4/5/4 for XForce now. No, AI doesn't use Recovery well, but it still casts it, and having to choose between taking 2400 damage or letting XForce get another 6000+ health back isn't a fun choice.

    I'm right there with you on the 4/5/4 X-Force build. the question for me is do I tip the scales all the way and go 3/5/5? At that point yellow becomes do I let X-Force heal for 10K or take 3600 dmg? Green becomes horrible at that point though but Recovery is stellar. That's where I"m sitting right now, although then if you do go 3/5/5 then having KK or the new IW becoming awesome duos for X-Force, moreso IW, as she's got the new best Single Target Green

    To me the biggest reason to run X-Force 3/5/5 is because Surgical denies a color to both players if green is the color you won't care because your green sucks.

    4/5/4 I think toes the line perfectly between a nice balance of power all over while not sacrficing too much on green, but gaining a great deal in Yellow
  • They said in a thread (which I can't find to quote because i'm too lazy even though it was me being replied to. It was a 4Thor nerf thread IIRC and from Miles or Will....) that 4*s are meant to be 60% more health and 60% more damage than 3*s. Could have changed their mind now though OFC.

    Part of the issue is they assign a value to non-damaging parts of abilities... then alter it and downgrade the damage accordingly (what happened when they decided charge tiles were more valuable). The difference between Devs' opinion of the worth of secondary effects and players opinions are often very different and leads to a lot of the anger over nerfs.
  • TheOncomingStorm
    TheOncomingStorm Posts: 489 Mover and Shaker
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    Vladdy wrote:
    Should I sell my X-Force when the increased selling value is kicking in?

    Sadly, I have enjoyed him for only about 2 weeks now.
    Even more sadly, I bought the last 4 covers to max him (TEN THOUSAND HERO POINTS).
    A bit less sadly, I took him to level 270 (iso is none of my "too-much" business).

    I could use the iso to level up some 3*. But... Who and why?
    I could use the hp to buy... Wait... Nevermind... icon_mrgreen.gif

    I want to be happy and not thrice sad (counting the number of times I used to word above).

    Don't sell him. They just did that buff week thing. I would keep him at least till I see if that sticks around or not. Buffed X-Force might still be good.

    There is always the hope they'll realize that green Xforce needs a little love after they get data from the changes.
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,537 Chairperson of the Boards
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    racanrpa wrote:
    GrimSkald wrote:
    What’s more, having 4*s dominate play is terrible for the game itself. The game revolves around 3* characters

    Acually, I think the devs were trying to change this. They did say they ll be releasing 4 star.png a lot more. That can mean they are trying to create a new, stable 4 star.png tier.
    I been playing this game since December 2013. Back then the 1-2 star.png transition was a thing to do. I remember having to fight my **** off to get OBW, and now they give them away like candy like every other 2 star.png. You would say that 1 star.png can t win too much in PVP? that s right, but a new, fresh player with a mediocre 1 star.png roster can beat the seeds in any PVP, and that is a posibility to win covers that didn t existed before. And PVE is extremly beginners friendly if you compare with that time
    I m not saying that old times were better, but that 1-2 star.png transition is virtually gone. So the devs may be trying to compensate this, and to give the vets a new carrot to chase. Are they doing it right? That s the question to answer...

    That's possible, but they will have to substantially alter the way a lot of things operate at this time - basically they would probably need to start treating the 4*s more like the way 3*s are treated now - have them featured more than once, have them given out more often, etc. I don't know that they're wiling to do that.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Vladdy wrote:
    Should I sell my X-Force when the increased selling value is kicking in?
    What for? To use the HP to buy the character they'll end up nerfing next week?
  • Vinmarc43
    Vinmarc43 Posts: 266
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    absolutly not, only if you have more than one icon_razz.gif
  • I sold Ragnarok while he was worthless and two weeks later they buffed him. Now I have 1 cover, where I had 5... Same basic story with Gamora, except she didn't get buffed.
  • Ebolamonkey84
    Ebolamonkey84 Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
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    Thamanator wrote:
    I sold Ragnarok while he was worthless and two weeks later they buffed him. Now I have 1 cover, where I had 5... Same basic story with Gamora, except she didn't get buffed.

    Don't feel too bad about Rags; he's still worthless.
  • Dauthi
    Dauthi Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
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    Here is the main problem with making 4*s on the level of 4* Thor and Xforce pre-nerf: players were completely skipping the 3* realm and buying out 4*s. Everyone has seen them, they have a few 3*s maybe, and a maxed XForce. The result was that they were immediately competing/beating 3*s who worked hard for their complete roster. Since they were able to do that, their roster would increase dramatically in a short time (pay to win anyone?).

    Now, they can still do this, but with only a slight advantage and the fact that 4*s are never buffed, they are really shooting themselves in the foot by doing so. Nobody will be that scared of their 270 Xforce and 70 featured character, and 94 OBW (or whoever else they can scrounge up).

    Since 4*s still have an advantage, everyone will still get them, just when it is cost effective, i.e. when they finish most of their 3*s. I will still play with my 4*s because of this, though the possibility may arise when I won't because synergy with another 3* trumps 4* raw power. Having to think rather than opt straight to 4* might be pretty fun.
  • MarvelDestiny
    MarvelDestiny Posts: 198 Tile Toppler
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    SnowcaTT wrote:
    In an equal world I don't have any problem with the X-force nerf. He was everywhere, I ran numbers on the Hulk PVP and saw him (the unfeatured character) in more than half the matchups I saw. He's basically the "featured" character in every PVP, that can't be good. I think the nerfs did go to far - he should be similar to the other 4*'s, and on first glance it looks like he won't be as good as many of the othe4 4*'s.

    I also don't have a problem if 4*'s aren't more powerful than 3*'s. If they are supposed to be, that's great - but the game becomes incredibly pay to win, where only those who buy the 4* covers (and possibly the ISO to level them) are on the top of every event.

    I -do- have a problem that if the decision has been made that 4*'s shouldn't be more powerful than 3*'s, why do they cost twice as much to buy covers for, and (is it four times as much?) so much more to level with ISO. Not to mention why they are so, so incredibly rare to find in packs or obtain through normal play. If they aren't going to be "great", why are they hard to get and level?

    I agree that 4s are way too expensive if their planned power band lies just above 3s and it seems obvious d3 has made this decision (all in all, probably a good decision for the longevity of the game). Assuming d3 does not reduce the cost and rarity of 4s my recommendation is for them to create awesome animations for them, animations that go beyond anything seen for other star levels. This will make them something special and desirable.

    Regardless, to make the situation fair d3 should reset all nerfed characters to their base lvl, refund spent iso, and offer respecs.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
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    No, because he's not post-nerf Sentry.

    He'll still be a prominent character, just not an omnipresent one.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Don't feel too bad about Rags; he's still worthless.
    So Rags feeding blue to Quicksilver isn't the new meta? icon_lol.gif
  • rednailz
    rednailz Posts: 559
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    Thamanator wrote:
    I sold Ragnarok while he was worthless and two weeks later they buffed him. Now I have 1 cover, where I had 5... Same basic story with Gamora, except she didn't get buffed.

    and now he's barely better than useless..
  • pc means politically correct.
    I am not sure what the meaning of it is in this case, but that is because I know nothing of Luke Cage.
  • mgallop
    mgallop Posts: 120
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    What he means is that the only reason to push a nonwhite character is because of some sort of pc agenda. The theory that D3 is needing/buffing characters based on identity politics is actually just the fantastically stupid conspiracy theory I didn't know I needed in my life.
  • Unknown
    edited April 2015
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    Surprised no has yet mentioned Patch.
    With Berserker Rage and the most reliable heal in the game, he'll probably be relied upon more.

    Other 4* may gain some prominence, if anyone can ever cover them.
  • spccrain
    spccrain Posts: 249
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    1) Hood: XF was the weapon against him and without that quick kill Hood takes his mantle as the most dangerous character.
    2) Loki: same reason as Hood he is an ap stealing tinykitty and XF was the quick way to end him before he could stall you.
    3) Anyone with a black or green power: They just didn't really get used with XF in play so now Cage, Cyclops, BP and a few others take their spotlight back
    4) Nick Fury: With XF gone ole Tricky Nicky takes his place at the top back as the most useful 4*
    Cyclops really takes a leap forward IMO. His black is just amazing but XF was always better.
  • Hanzo0313
    Hanzo0313 Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
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    I bought HP for xf, cause this game is fun and I think it's fun to use him maxed.

    Now for a sudden he's nerfed, and I can't do anything but swallow it.

    This is very uncomfortable, and I bought it because of the skill description, now the product is changed, ****!?

    I don't know you guys get used to it or what, for me I felt very comfortable.
    Give my HP back, D3.
This discussion has been closed.