**** Wolverine (X-Force) **** [PRE 2015-04]

Pwuz_

I disagree that you don't have a stake in it. Do you compete in PvP? Do you ever score high enough that you start seeing 4 out of 5 teams featuring X-Force?

As a player well into 3* territory, but unable to collect 4* covers except by the fraction of a percentage for token pulls, X-Force is too often my adversary. Sure, I can win against him, but a bad board makes all the boosts in the world worthless.

Spoit

Nivrax wrote:

WolfmanX25 wrote:

I think the will now very rarely be the right choice. The nerf may not be as bad as it initially seems, due to the destroyed tiles' damage, but 8 AP for a board shaker and, let's say, 2400 damage isn't that great. It's not the worst ability in the game (Hulk's green or Ragnarok's are worse ), but If I have Kamala or Thor on my team, you can bet I'll very rarely use X-Force .

2400 for 8 is quite meh, but if it indeed generates 4,5-5 extra AP on average, making it net cost of 3-4, I'd say it's pretty good if you have team comp that can use whatever dropped for you, plus board shakes are also good for letting you get access to colour matches you want and perhaps setting 4 or 5 in a row. I don't see myself dropping 5 green for 5 yellow, at least not until matching yellow by enemy would switch resulting cascade for you.

Yeah, can we have one of the other sims run the numbers on that too? Most of the time it doesn't even make one match with the cascade for me, much less averaging closer to the side of 2.

Also, on that 1:4 chance to actually hit a particular tile (or rather, 5 tiles: that one, or the ones in each diagonal direction)x3

Nivrax wrote:

Wonko33 wrote:

but SS could be temperamental too, how many times have you been stuck with it because strongest color is purple or there are only a few of a certain color on the board?

In those situations new SS is getting hefty buff. The second did happen but fairly rarely unless you tried to SS twice same colour in short time between.

Nah, the board can get pretty depleted from just focusing on matching a particular color, no SSing required. Like if it's on black

jimstarooney

I think hulk gains the most now xforce claws have been turned into butter knives.

Unknown

Charcters with green as strong colour are no longer liability, Gamora (still bad), Mohawk (with hp ugrade much more potent), Hulk and Devil dino (both tanky can actually use their health as advantage now).

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

arktos1971 wrote:

The main concern many of us have is the nerf of XF and PvE scaling.

SS was helping a lot in very lethal situations...

I never minded nerfs of Top Tier teams (I always hate them), but I'm always really concerned about PvE scaling.

Kingpin is too slow, and not very efficient.

I ran a lot of comination of straight up power teams in Thunderbolt Mountains without X Force since you can't use him in half of the node and it's reasonably successful even if a lot of it depended on Iron Fist. The extra HPs will help in terms of winning fights (but not necessarily sustaining) because currently a high level opponent can generally one shot your guys which leaves you without much options once they hit their moves. With more HP you'll be able to survive and while your opponent has more health too, being able to take say a 9K hit (fairly common on high level opponents) versus not is likely a bigger benefit than your enemy having another 10K HP. I'd expect overall scaling to go down a bit and certainly not go up even more to the point where they can one shot your characters with the health increase. I am concerned with what happens against the guys with level 100 rosters that presumably didn't depend on X Force very much, since they're basically unaffected by the change, as it's already uncomfortable enough even when X Force dominated. Given X Force totally outclasses anybody, the fact that PvE between those who have X Force and not can be sometimes close suggests scaling applies an incredible weight in the opposite direction.

Sure, but what does your roster look like when you have finished clearing all the nodes ?

I managed to make it to Top 10, but could not play the PvPs meanwhile, because I was consistently out of health packs. Though I have most of the featured/useful characters as duplicates in my roster.

The Health Packs problem will be the next one, as you obviously can no longer participate in all events.

GrumpySmurf1002

jimstarooney wrote:

I think hulk gains the most now xforce claws have been turned into butter knives.

Not really, LCap still chews him up and spits him out very easily.

Because XForce's black is still very strong, so it's really the green powers that get a boost. Thor, Kamala, Patch, Groot, Punisher, Squirrel Girl, Fist, She-Hulk....they all benefit.

Panther gets a boost since he's back to (arguably) the best black in the game to go with his underrated yellow.

Doom is growing on me, his purple is amazing for finishing the last opponent quickly. But I don't think he's any stronger now

Unknown

Thamanator wrote:

pc means politically correct.
I am not sure what the meaning of it is in this case, but that is because I know nothing of Luke Cage.

He's saying Luke Cage is allowed to be OP because he's black.

Same logic behind people seeing a black guy in their office and thinking "He must be an affirmative action hire."

Good old internet racism.

thedarkphoenix

Xforce is still going to be good pvp, just not pve. I'm more upset about that...pve already takes way to much time.


As far as pvp goes not much will change outside of how long it takes to finish matches

4Thor is MUCH stronger now, basically anyone with abilities that can push 4k plus damage from other colors besides black will see more play, your mags, Dooms, 4Thor.

Also Hood and Lazy Thor will probably back in full force.

Wonko33

Nivrax wrote:

Wonko33 wrote:

but SS could be temperamental too, how many times have you been stuck with it because strongest color is purple or there are only a few of a certain color on the board?

In those situations new SS is getting hefty buff. The second did happen but fairly rarely unless you tried to SS twice same colour in short time between.

my biggest issue was that on pve there is a unfortunate amount of time where purple is the strongest color, because of the damn dark avengers-

Unknown

arktos1971 wrote:

Sure, but what does your roster look like when you have finished clearing all the nodes ?

I managed to make it to Top 10, but could not play the PvPs meanwhile, because I was consistently out of health packs. Though I have most of the featured/useful characters as duplicates in my roster.

The Health Packs problem will be the next one, as you obviously can no longer participate in all events.

I always thought they wanted you to pick which event to focus on. I didn't get much PvP done though that's mostly because Kingpin event seems like a completely lost cause. I sent in most of my non PvP team for PvE so while a lot of them were downed/crippled it wouldn't have mattered for PvP. It's a problem but not an unreasonable constrain on someone who wants to do well in both PvP and PvE.

Leugenesmiff

So I hadn't checked the forums lately and am just now reading the latest announcements. I've a question I hope those of you more familiar with the workings of the game could help me with. My only leveled up 4* is x-Force, level 198 right now. Will having him on my roster make my match ups considerably more difficult than if I didn't have him? I wasn't sure about this before but his power made up for any difficult battles. Now that I'm not sure if I'd even be using him regularly, I'm wondering if just keeping him on my roster will have a negative effect.

Thanks for any help.

Unknown

Your matches will continue to be basically whatever you have been seeing recently in Heavy Metal, Smash Hit, Kingpin, and now Lord of Thunder. XF's usability will be decreasing (slightly, he's still good) but what you match against will likely not change, other than their XF's also being deflated.

What's your next highest character? Do you have some solid 3* characters or just 198 XF and some 94s? If you have some solid 3* characters then I imagine a 198, or a 220 XF won't hurt you. If you went straight from 94s to day 180 to 5/5/3 XF, then yea he's probably hurting you.

Leugenesmiff

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I doubt I'd sell him off anyway, you never know what they might do to him in the future.
My roster (that I use) is mostly 3*s, with many maxed. I've got other 4s but none that I've got enough covers in for me to justify using the ISO to level them, so they're all at level 70.

jimstarooney

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

jimstarooney wrote:

I think hulk gains the most now xforce claws have been turned into butter knives.

Not really, LCap still chews him up and spits him out very easily.

Because XForce's black is still very strong, so it's really the green powers that get a boost. Thor, Kamala, Patch, Groot, Punisher, Squirrel Girl, Fist, She-Hulk....they all benefit.

Panther gets a boost since he's back to (arguably) the best black in the game to go with his underrated yellow.

Doom is growing on me, his purple is amazing for finishing the last opponent quickly. But I don't think he's any stronger now

What i meant is he will be skipped more often if u have him on defence since its gonna make matches vs hulk last longer again.a typical high scorer needs quick matches to progress.

bahamut685

Green-power heroes are the only characters gaining from the nerf, as far as playability goes, since his green is losing ~50% effectiveness... His black is GAINING damage (losing utility, but still the strongest black, power-wise), so no real gain to Black-power heroes. Yellow ALSO gained a very large buff, so he'll probably see just as much use in PVP, and possibly a little less in PVE.

vudu3

"Black-power heroes" will gain from the XF nerf simply because you won't run with XF in every single battle.

Phaserhawk

N-Day is here, and I have some suggestions for those who may panic.

Best Replacements
================
Cyclops--for an extra 2 red you can do about the same damage as X-Force and blow up a line, not to mention he also has a very lethal black.

Human Torch--with the health bump he becomes much more playable and his red is about the best damage for AP in the game, not to mention he has a very strong green


Best Single target Green Skills
==========================
IW--it's slower but does more damage
R&G--if you opt for level 5 and have some strike tiles this is a very strong skill
Patch--who better to replace himself
HT--? While not single target it does pack a punch

There are options, to me Cyclops, Human Torch and IW would be the straight up replacements for him with Cyclops almost literally replacing him minus the red for green they have the same colors, I think Cyclops and either KingPin or IW will be the go to duo.

Unknown

Luke Cage may be a good replacement - his yellow is fantastic, his red is useful, and his black gets better in slower matches (and the health increase is going to slow down matches). Problem is he overlaps 100% with Cyclops.

Iron Fist is another good one, and pairs well with Luke Cage, but a lot of people need covers for him (he's my least-covered 3* after Quicksilver, needing 4 covers).

Lazy Thor is probably going to be seen again a lot more. Also pairs well with Lazy Daken, though leaves black and purple without active powers.

I suspect we're going to start seeing more teams that cater to whoever is boosted/featured. I've been using Black Panther/Loki with Lazy Thor in the current PVP even prior to the change, because X-Force/Deadpool, my most common combo before, weren't sustainable over a long match. But I also suspect we're going to settle into another top 2 everyone uses before long.

GrumpySmurf1002

Best replacement for XForce is XForce. I'll be more apt to rotate him out now, but don't see why I'll stop using him.

That said, could Fist crash the party? Even with standard 3/5/5 build, it's a quick 660 and tacks another 352 onto the attack tile, so now you're doing 838 a turn.

She-Hulk destroying 2 colors of AP for cost 6 will also be an interesting replacement in the new world. XForce-Doom-Shulk is rainbow with lots of board shake and two abilities that can do 10k+ damage.

Unknown

daibar wrote:

Surprised no has yet mentioned Patch.
With Berserker Rage and the most reliable heal in the game, he'll probably be relied upon more.

Other 4* may gain some prominence, if anyone can ever cover them.

To me, as someone who doesn't bother with placement, but more goals for the progression rewards, I'm reverting back to Patch/Daken. True Heal is just HUGE, and while I like characters like Blade/Falcon/CMags, they need health packs.

If I want to switch it up 3hor/Laken.
- Unreall