MtGPQ 1.7 Release Notes (9/27/16)

Upstartes

I am concerned about seeing this announcement right before the next Saheeli Rai challenge starts. This update won't hit in the middle of the event, I hope.

Corn_Noodles

I don't much care about Kiora's ultimate since I have used it so very few times. The first ability moving to 9 is fine. For the second ability, I'd like to see one of two things: 1. Change mana to 2/4/6/8 or 2. Leave it at 1/2/3/4 but let us choose the creature from the next 4 in our library.

octal9

(Anything listed below is subject to change before release.)

You absolutely should re-think your Kiora changes. You're coming in with a sledgehammer (or a wrecking ball) when all you need is a trim hammer - she's already in a good spot. Your Sorin buffs are going to bring him to Koth's power level. Jace 2.0 will be at Koth's level of power. Why shouldn't Kiora be at that level? I mean hell - we bought her for 950 crystals (or whatever her exclusive offer price was, I wasn't around for that). That's over 50% more than Sorin, the second most expensive planeswalker.

The change to Kiora's second ability needs to be reconsidered. 12 loyalty for a fetch & four mana? Please, rethink this. If you're going to drop the mana cost down that much, make it her first ability and drop the loyalty to eight or so, and move the drain to her second, leave it at 9 drain and make it cost 12, idk.

Otherwise, the second ability (at the very least) should be fetching for eight mana. Twelve might be asking too much if you're going straight for the 75% nerf right off the bat - in this case, trading 12 loyalty for 8 mana and a fetch feels fair.

Her last ability was fine at 24 loyalty - if I've banked 24 loyalty I'm likely already able to win in other ways.

Don't kneejerk react into gutting a planeswalker. You don't need massive, sweeping changes. You just need to finetune.

EDHdad

I don't want to be a stinkin' whiner or anything, but I am of the opinion that Hixus Prison Warden is oppressive. At one time, this cost 18 mana and was inexplicably lowered to 6.

Some possible solutions:

* Raise the casting cost (at various times it cost, I believe, 18, 15, and 10).

* Give green and white a cheap, efficient way to destroy enemy supports. A 3-mana spell similar to Demolish would work. In paper Magic, green and white are primary in their ability to destroy artifacts and enchantments (which is what most supports in Puzzle Quest are), and green has quite a lot of land destruction, while red actually has great difficulty destroying enchantments (Demolish and Smash to Smithereens in paper can only destroy artifacts).

* Alternately, give green and white mass support destruction spells. In paper Magic, there are many green spells which destroy all artifacts and enchantments, and white has several cards which destroy all lands.

* Make Hixus a creature, as he is in Paper Magic. There are many more ways to deal with creatures than supports in this game, and creatures can be targeted while supports are destroyed in a near-random order.

* Allow me to purchase Hixus Prison Warden and Starfield of Nyx for a reasonable amount of cash or crystals, and I'll show you how fair and balanced those two cards can be.

Stormcrow

If Kiora's second ability needed a rework at all (it didn't), dropping it down to 3/6/9/12 mana would've been fine. Even 2/4/6/8 I could've lived with. 1/2/3/4 is just a bad joke. I'd have been fine if they just bumped the cost of her 1st ability. I never used the 3rd skill and now I and everyone else will just continue to never use the 3rd skill, so that's whatever. I hope that at the very least, after nerfing her they intend to drop the price down to 550 or 600 crystals for her, to bring her cost down to be in line with the other dual-color planeswalkers that she is now certainly not more powerful than.

Frankly I'm not that bothered by most of the other changes (pretty psyched about Sorin TBH), it's really just the ridiculous over-nerf to Kiora's second ability that gets me.

The cynic in me can't help but note that this gets announced just when a new, OP-looking blue planeswalker goes on sale. Fair warning to anybody who's thinking of picking up Jace 2.0: odds are he'll get the same nerfed-to-heck treatment once the devs have a new blue planeswalker they're looking to sell.

Chavez303

Seasons Past, has essentially become nothing.

Taking that out and putting Nissa's Renewal back in.

They cost the same and with the gem conversion happening up front, theres pretty much zero bonus to it.

I normally dont jump on the "Complain Train" but in this case, i think the mark was seriously missed.

I will say that i appreciate that the dev team does listen to complaints and works with the community, however in this case i think something went wrong.

chispito

EDHdad wrote:

I don't want to be a stinkin' whiner or anything, but I am of the opinion that Hixus Prison Warden is oppressive. At one time, this cost 18 mana and was inexplicably lowered to 6.
...
* Give green and white a cheap, efficient way to destroy enemy supports. A 3-mana spell similar to Demolish would work. In paper Magic, green and white are primary in their ability to destroy artifacts and enchantments (which is what most supports in Puzzle Quest are), and green has quite a lot of land destruction, while red actually has great difficulty destroying enchantments (Demolish and Smash to Smithereens in paper can only destroy artifacts).

Don't you mean black, blue and white? Green has Reclaiming Vines, which even at 8 is nice to keep in your pocket. More consistently, you can just cascade supports to death, especially low armor supports. But what do black and blue have?

kessy628

chispito wrote:

EDHdad wrote:

I don't want to be a stinkin' whiner or anything, but I am of the opinion that Hixus Prison Warden is oppressive. At one time, this cost 18 mana and was inexplicably lowered to 6.
...
* Give green and white a cheap, efficient way to destroy enemy supports. A 3-mana spell similar to Demolish would work. In paper Magic, green and white are primary in their ability to destroy artifacts and enchantments (which is what most supports in Puzzle Quest are), and green has quite a lot of land destruction, while red actually has great difficulty destroying enchantments (Demolish and Smash to Smithereens in paper can only destroy artifacts).

Don't you mean black, blue and white? Green has Reclaiming Vines, which even at 8 is nice to keep in your pocket. More consistently, you can just cascade supports to death, especially low armor supports. But what do black and blue have?

Black technically has Anguished Unmaking, but that comes from it being black/white duel colored. Beyond that, I don't think black or blue have any way to deal with supports on their own once they're on the field. But that's how it is in paper MTG as well; they usually deal with it by denial or discard to prevent the artifact/enchantment from even being played, or use colorless methods.

Dologan

Wow, that Kiora nerf is utterly excessive and obtuse.

Sure, she was definitely somewhat OP relative to other PWs, but the changes go waayyy overboard.

The first ability cost increase is fine, although perhaps a bit underpowered at low levels.

The second ability change is just ridiculous. 1/2/3/4? Are you out of your mind?? Do you seriously not realise how pathetic a +1 mana bonus per level is?? Nissa's first ability, at level two, now does more or less the same thing than this does at level 3, for 3 less loyalty. Yes, +12/16 mana at levels 3/4 was getting to be a bit too much perhaps, but now the ability is almost useless at any level. 3/6/9/12 would have been fine, hell, even 2/4/6/8, but 1/2/3/4? Pfft.

The third ability is a bit tricky. Before the patch, it was arguably OP at max level, but pretty bad value for the first couple of them. The patch is clearly aimed to fix it at max level play, but makes the ability worthless for the first 50 PW levels or so.

Most of the other changes seem generally okay. Although I don't have it, Season's Past seems a bit over-nerfed, although it was fair to prevent it from going into crazy feedback loops. I also never got Runaway Carriage, but even though I hated it when it was used against me and thought it could be too unbalancing for an Uncommon, it is rather sad to see it lose what made it an interesting card. Personally, I would have got around its potential unbalance in a different way: an X-turn Timer à la Investigate to remove its Prevent Damage. This way, you'd get its interesting invulnerability at first, but one could get around it by weathering it for a few turns or by destroying the gem.

David [Hi-Fi] Moore

*UPDATE (09/22/16)

Hi,

There's been a change to the Kiora rebalance. As always, what's mentioned in the notes can sometimes change before going live. The Kiora update now reads:

"Her first ability, Crashing Waves, now costs 9 Loyalty (up from 6)."

No other changes have been made to Kiora.

Thanks for your continued feedback.

octal9

Thank you for listening to us.

This is a good start - a minor change, see how it pans out, and then adjust accordingly if necessary.

Tilikum

Agreed. Nice move, devs.

Theros

good move.
now leave the endangered octopi alone

Pqmtg-

"David wrote:

Moore"]*UPDATE (09/22/16)

Hi,

There's been a change to the Kiora rebalance. As always, what's mentioned in the notes can sometimes change before going live. The Kiora update now reads:

"Her first ability, Crashing Waves, now costs 9 Loyalty (up from 6)."

No other changes have been made to Kiora.

Thanks for your continued feedback.

Seasons past and harness the storm casting costs also need no change. Just making the card draw after the gem destruction solves all existing problems.

Netatron

Pqmtg- wrote:

"David wrote:

Moore"]*UPDATE (09/22/16)

Hi,

There's been a change to the Kiora rebalance. As always, what's mentioned in the notes can sometimes change before going live. The Kiora update now reads:

"Her first ability, Crashing Waves, now costs 9 Loyalty (up from 6)."

No other changes have been made to Kiora.

Thanks for your continued feedback.

Seasons past and harness the storm casting costs also need no change. Just making the card draw after the gem destruction solves all existing problems.

Making the card draw after the gem destruction mostly nerfs the usage of it that wasn't a problem in the first place.

Pqmtg-

Netatron wrote:

Pqmtg- wrote:

"David wrote:

Moore"]*UPDATE (09/22/16)

Hi,

There's been a change to the Kiora rebalance. As always, what's mentioned in the notes can sometimes change before going live. The Kiora update now reads:

"Her first ability, Crashing Waves, now costs 9 Loyalty (up from 6)."

No other changes have been made to Kiora.

Thanks for your continued feedback.

Seasons past and harness the storm casting costs also need no change. Just making the card draw after the gem destruction solves all existing problems.

Making the card draw after the gem destruction mostly nerfs the usage of it that wasn't a problem in the first place.

It stops the infinite combo. What did you think was the problem?

Yvendros

--Adam wrote:

You should offer a limited time sell back for Kiora; no reasonable person would ever pay 950 for her in her current state. I'm honestly feeling kinda swindled.

Buffing Sorin right after he rotates out is pretty lame.

I've been focusing on lvl'ing Kiora. Almost had her finished too...

BUT HAH! I just purchased Sorin instead of Nahiri or Garruk. Then instantly regretted it. Looks like my foolishness wins again! MWHAHAHAHA!!!

arNero

"David wrote:

Moore"]We rebalanced Kiora, Master of the Depths and Sorin, Grim Nemesis.

Kiora, Master of the Depths

Her first ability, Crashing Waves, now costs 9 Loyalty (up from 6).

Was reading a few other threads about people complaining about Kiora. Personally, one thing I absolutely agree is that Kiora's first ability, a bit like Liliana's first, is extremely oppressive when the cost is too low. This cost increase is welcome. Your previous nerf to her second ability is a bit too much, although given that creatures tend to have a more long-lasting effect than spells, it makes me wonder how much we should consider comparing it to Jace's second ability, but anyway at least the nerf to her first ability is very much welcome.

Sorin, Grim Nemesis

Sorin’s first and second abilities have been completely redesigned. His loadout has also been improved.

His first ability, Vampiric Drain, has been redesigned. It now reads:

- Rank 1: “Gain 1 Life and 1 Mana per creature you control.” - Rank 2: “Gain 2 Life and 1 Mana per creature you control.” - Rank 3: “Gain 3 Life and 2 Mana per creature you control.” - Rank 4: “Gain 4 Life and 2 Mana per creature you control.”

Vampiric Drain now costs 6 (down from 9).

His second ability has been renamed and redesigned. It is now called Vampiric Power, and reads:

- Rank 1: Summon a Support with “When each of your creatures attacks, you gain 1 Life.” - Rank 2: Summon a Support with “When each of your creatures attacks, you gain 2 Life.” - Rank 3: Summon a Support with “When each of your creatures attacks, you gain 3 Life.” - Rank 4: Summon a Support with “When each of your creatures attacks, you gain 4 Life.”

This ability costs 15 Loyalty.

Sorin’s loadout also changed. He can now use 8 Creatures, 3 Spells and 3 Supports at level 1, and 10 Creatures, 5 Spells and 5 Supports at level 60.

Wow. Ally-lifegain deck has just got a new PW friend. I hope you didn't overdo it like what you did to Koth (but maybe I'm a bit too wary), but hey, I'll just play him and see how he goes. Thank you personally; he's forever my favorite vampire.

• Runaway Carriage: No longer has Prevent Damage.

You probably would want to bump its toughness then. Back then with prevent damage it was a nigh-unkillable mosnter despite having a measly 1 health, not with its prevent damage gone perhaps you may want to bump up its toughness so that it doesn't instantly die to Chandra? Just a thought. Otherwise, THANK YOU

- Chitinous Cloak: Now costs 5 (down from 7).

It feels weird that we have the Cloak and Murderous Axe having the same cost and effect, but if you think you're considering Standard format in the far future, I suppose this will do.

• Sage of Ancient Lore: Now costs 16 (up from 10).
• Werewolf of Ancient Hunger: No longer draws 2 cards when it transforms.

Whoah..... quite a brutal nerf here. While I agree this wolfie can be disastrously monstrous (especially if Kiora decides to pair him up with Forgotten Creation and Days Undoing), I wonder if this is too much.

mouser

"David wrote:

Moore"]*UPDATE (09/22/16)

Hi,

There's been a change to the Kiora rebalance. As always, what's mentioned in the notes can sometimes change before going live. The Kiora update now reads:

"Her first ability, Crashing Waves, now costs 9 Loyalty (up from 6)."

No other changes have been made to Kiora.

Thanks for your continued feedback.

I'm wondering if it might not be better to leave ability 1 loyalty cost unchanged but reduce the mana stolen. E.g. 1/2/3/4 mana. Or could make it so the mana stolen/gained does not have to be equivalent. e.g. 2 drained, 4 gained, or something like that (1/1, 1/2, 2/3, 2/4 drain/gain maybe for levels?)

Kiora's ability 2 is strong, but so are the 2nd abilities of many other PW's. The AI infrequently casts that 2nd ability as it will prefer to spam out ability 1 (which is a good thing IMO). With the looping green cascades available it become quite common to see an AI Kiora trigger off ability 2. If those cascades like Seasons Past are toned down, then you would see the AI firing ability 2 less frequently.

But a potential unintended consequence of this change is that by increasing ability 1 loyalty cost to 9 and leaving ability 2 at 12 we now have a gap of only 3 loyalty between the abilities instead of 6. Meaning we're going to see the AI firing off that second ability more frequently even without cascades. I don't know if it's desirable or not to have the AI using the 2nd ability more frequently. I can see arguments for and against it.

greenlantern81

I'm actually ok with most of the nerfs. Kiora's changes are fine imo. Keeps her 1st ability in check but she's still viable, her other nerfs were overkill lol.

I'm curious to see Ulvenwald Hydra's actual changes. The notes are wrong under his notes. Honestly I don't feel he really needed to be changed especially with the SP loop gone. He's powerful yes, but cmon! He's a mythic and he still can die to any removal and he's easily killable if dropped early.

As for Seasons Past, I totally understand and agree with it being nerfed to not bring itself back when cast. That infinite loop was ridiculous! But that was really the only nerf it needed! The cost going up to 20 PLUS it converts gems before getting your cards back is too much! It's completely inferior to Nissa's Renewal now! If you feel it needed another Balance change do one or the other, not BOTH! If it costs 20 then you should get the cards back first before it converts the gems (especially since it cant bring a copy of SP back anyways and it only converts 15 gems opposed to 20 gems and gain 30 life with Renewal lmao!) or leave the cost as is and have it convert the gems before you get your cards back! Not both lol! Why even play the card now?! Honestly imo it just needed the loop fixed. It didn't need any of the other nerfs! It'd still be a great card but not OP and broken. It's a freaking mythic lol! Now it's going to suck lol. I'd rather just run Animist's Awakening still or Renewal over it.