***** The Hulk (Bruce Banner) *****

monsieurmojo

Vhailorx wrote:

At least banner has theoretically infinite health. .

And it's exactly this that makes him more useful than Cap. He is an amazing meat shield. He can carry you through some fights just by virtue of being able to absorb an immense amount of damage and keep getting back up. The extra 5* match damage per turn isn't a bad deal, either.

The big problem I have using him, though, is that by their nature, the kinds of tough fights where he's useful also make him a huge health pack sink. His base kit is just bad (that blue!), and outside the free match damage, his Hulk kit kinda does, too.

Hendross

monsieurmojo wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

At least banner has theoretically infinite health. .

And it's exactly this that makes him more useful than Cap. He is an amazing meat shield. He can carry you through some fights just by virtue of being able to absorb an immense amount of damage and keep getting back up. The extra 5* match damage per turn isn't a bad deal, either.

The big problem I have using him, though, is that by their nature, the kinds of tough fights where he's useful also make him a huge health pack sink. His base kit is just bad (that blue!), and outside the free match damage, his Hulk kit kinda does, too.

I think we need to segregate PvP and PvE as well, I use Banner exclusively for PvE and he's great!... Vs. Kaecilius in Strange Sights Hulk was nuked twice, which would have insta-killed any other characters, only to revert back and transform again in 2 turns. Likewise wave nodes, longer the better. Banner may have more longevity in high level PvE than OML. Different tools for different jobs.

vinsensual

How does Smash! damage scale up? Is it tied to any of his Banner colors or his character level?

Vhailorx

vinsensual wrote:

How does Smash! damage scale up? Is it tied to any of his Banner colors or his character level?

I think it is tied to both level and number of purple banner covers.

Blahahah

Banner is pretty interesting with some combos. I like him (I know he is a weak 5*, but he is amazing in the 4*-5* transition)

Him and Mr. Fantastic make a surprisingly great team. Hulk's auto move still triggers imaginaut, Mr. F's blue helps really make sure Banner gets more bang for his buck too. Mixed with a good strike tile maker, they can dish out some absurd damage in a short period of time.

Hulk covers purple, black, and blue. Also covers red and green when he pops over

Mr. F covers blue black and yellow.

So you'd need a stable green/red/purple character, preferably someone good at making strike tiles.

If you're more 4*, X-23 is a great fit.
If you're more 5*, Jean Grey is a fit too.

Works out well. Drop imaginaut, watch Hulk auto-match a G/Y/R for essentially double damage, then do another match yourself. Also lets you fuel up with Gamma Radiation since it pops more green out.



Also, they have a **** ton of true heal between them. Hulk essentially is a big shield, but you know what I mean

jobob

Mr_Sinister wrote:

He's useless as banner and more uselesss as hulk. He needs fixing because I think he replaced cap as the worst 5*. Please rework him because the concept you've created is awesome and I want to like him. As is he is garbage tier.

Easy. Nobody is worse than Cap.

Polares

jobob wrote:

Mr_Sinister wrote:

He's useless as banner and more uselesss as hulk. He needs fixing because I think he replaced cap as the worst 5*. Please rework him because the concept you've created is awesome and I want to like him. As is he is garbage tier.

Easy. Nobody is worse than Cap.

Cap is the worse, and I agree Banner is lame, but the power of transforming him to Hulk makes him really interesting for PvE. It is also a bit annoying that Hulk red power match doesn't produce AP or can be selected by the user.

Banner blue and black though MUST be fixed. Blue is easy to fix, just raise the minimum number with covers and then transform just one tile always. At 5 covers, blue should be transforming tiles to green when there are fewer than 10 (or maybe even 11) green on the board (so basically, almost every turn a new green tile). For black I really don't understand why the enemy attack tiles are created. I don't remember Banner to being annoying or hard to work with in the comics, so this power should just create friendly attack tiles.

But blue is the most important power that needs a fix, as is the power that will help transform him into Hulk.

notamutant

Polares wrote:

I don't remember Banner to being annoying or hard to work with in the comics, so this power should just create friendly attack tiles.

Actually, at least in the runs preceding Secret Wars, Banner was a real A-hole. He was always arrogant and trying to do things on his own. He was basically the Cyclops of the Avengers (after Cyclops became the Phoenix and killed Prof X).

Polares

notamutant wrote:

Polares wrote:

I don't remember Banner to being annoying or hard to work with in the comics, so this power should just create friendly attack tiles.

Actually, at least in the runs preceding Secret Wars, Banner was a real A-hole. He was always arrogant and trying to do things on his own. He was basically the Cyclops of the Avengers (after Cyclops became the Phoenix and killed Prof X).

But this is a very short period of time, Hulk is a really old char. I don't think it is a good idea to add a power with something that has been in the comics just for a year or two, specially when the char looks like the 'classic Banner/Hulk', like the one in old comic books or the TV series (at least this the impression I get from the art).

notamutant

Polares wrote:

notamutant wrote:

Polares wrote:

I don't remember Banner to being annoying or hard to work with in the comics, so this power should just create friendly attack tiles.

Actually, at least in the runs preceding Secret Wars, Banner was a real A-hole. He was always arrogant and trying to do things on his own. He was basically the Cyclops of the Avengers (after Cyclops became the Phoenix and killed Prof X).

But this is a very short period of time, Hulk is a really old char. I don't think it is a good idea to add a power with something that has been in the comics just for a year or two, specially when the char looks like the 'classic Banner/Hulk', like the one in old comic books or the TV series (at least this the impression I get from the art).

The cover they chose is from the Incredible Hulk that ran from 2011 through 2012. This particular issue was released in April 2012. In this run, Banner was unable to transform into the Hulk anymore because they were separated into two different entities, and Banner was going crazy without the Hulk transformation. He was giving himself cancer in an effort to bring the Hulk back, and acting like a mad scientist by experimenting on animals and turning them into Hulks. They fought against each other at first. Eventually they rejoined, and the Hulk was trying to never lose control to Banner again. In the end, they realized they needed each other. It was a pretty bad run... but basically, Banner was a jerk in this run, and most of the recent comics. For character design, I am guessing they mainly are following the characters more modern power sets, unless they use an older comic version.

Blahahah

Polares wrote:

For black I really don't understand why the enemy attack tiles are created. I don't remember Banner to being annoying or hard to work with in the comics, so this power should just create friendly attack tiles.

Banner is a jerk a lot, actually. Also tries to either lead or leave any project they bring him on that isn't summarized by "smash something"

Straycat

I won a match using Banner. He had low heath when he transformed, but Hulk was still alive at the end of the match. After the match Banner was downed. Does Banner lose health when he transforms?

Skelepaw

Has this changed recently with one of the latest updates? I was playing with banner in the galactus sub-battles and in one of the fights hulk went down and instead of reverts my back to Bruce banner I just had a downed hulk. I have only had banner downed once so I don't know if it was a fluke or something that changed with the recent revision.

kramer2410

Skelepaw wrote:

Has this changed recently with one of the latest updates? I was playing with banner in the galactus sub-battles and in one of the fights hulk went down and instead of reverts my back to Bruce banner I just had a downed hulk. I have only had banner downed once so I don't know if it was a fluke or something that changed with the recent revision.

This happened to me ages ago. I thought it was normal til I played a PVP and hulk kept getting back up

Rick_OShay

Same happened just now, Banner being downed when he had remaining health before becoming Hulk.
This time, Banner had only about 2000 health left before transforming to Hulk. The battle ended in Hulk form with around 5200 Hulk-health.
I expected to decide about using a health pack anyway, but Banner should have reverted to his 2000+ health after the match, as opposed to being downed for 32+ minutes.
When deciding on health pack usage, I may have decided to wait if Banner was simply injured - but being improperly downed I used a health pack.
If anyone else confirms, we should enter a bug ticket.

SangFroid

Since D3 is now doing 5*'s reworks Hulk is the obvious next in line.

I use him and KK for the big enchilada every day and he is fun to play but obviously that is not high level PVP or PVE. I was thinking that if you gained AP from his Hulk matches he would become really good pretty quickly. It would still fit with flavour text that he is uncontrollable as sometimes his matches will wreck your planned cascades or targeted tile removal but would still for the most part be a big benefit. If you had Hulk on your team IRL obviously he is a risk factor and will mess with some of your plans but you would still WAY rather have him than not.

I would love to hear the thoughts and suggestions of those that have him Championed and have used him in PVP and PVE.

OneLastGambit

Poor old hulk.

Personally I love using him. He's loads of fun, he's just not competitive. Heres what I would do.

Change him so that in hulk form the match the AI makes :

Collects AP

-OR-

Does treble damage.

One simple change and now he is both competitive and usable and fun. He could also do with a boost to his AOE as its a bit weak for his tier.

monsieurmojo

OneLastGambit wrote:

Poor old hulk.

Personally I love using him. He's loads of fun, he's just not competitive. Heres what I would do.

Change him so that in hulk form the match the AI makes :

Collects AP

-OR-

Does treble damage.

One simple change and now he is both competitive and usable and fun. He could also do with a boost to his AOE as its a bit weak for his tier.

Totally agree with all of this; plus, unless you're using *another* 5* that has green as a primary color, Banner in base form will almost never transform into Hulk if he's on your defensive team in PvP. This makes him more or less useless if he's your only 5*. Gambit's changes *might* make him more viable, but he also needs a more streamlined avenue to that transformation as an AI-controlled character. Maybe overhauling his blue to be either more like Wanda's, or more like the Boss Rush version of Banner's, would be key.

OneLastGambit

monsieurmojo wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Poor old hulk.

Personally I love using him. He's loads of fun, he's just not competitive. Heres what I would do.

Change him so that in hulk form the match the AI makes :

Collects AP

-OR-

Does treble damage.

One simple change and now he is both competitive and usable and fun. He could also do with a boost to his AOE as its a bit weak for his tier.

Totally agree with all of this; plus, unless you're using *another* 5* that has green as a primary color, Banner in base form will almost never transform into Hulk if he's on your defensive team in PvP. This makes him more or less useless if he's your only 5*. Gambit's changes *might* make him more viable, but he also needs a more streamlined avenue to that transformation as an AI-controlled character. Maybe overhauling his blue to be either more like Wanda's, or more like the Boss Rush version of Banner's, would be key.

I disagree slightly here. at 5 covers he will transform with just 6 green ap. The transform tile will proc beforeany green user might fire an ability so even if AI collects more green the transform tile will still proc before he can use it up.

monsieurmojo

OneLastGambit wrote:

I disagree slightly here. at 5 covers he will transform with just 6 green ap. The transform tile will proc beforeany green user might fire an ability so even if AI collects more green the transform tile will still proc before he can use it up.

No, I understand this, Gambit! I'm actually looking forward to pulling that 5th green cover many years down the road from now, just to get that cost down. What I'm saying is just that, since AI Banner will prioritize blue, then black, then purple, then TU matches before green--and because the blue, even at five covers, is still such a poor generator of green--an AI controlled Banner is far too unlikely to ever even get the green in the first place. Even if he *does* get it, the moment Hulk gets another match, he's going to use it on that pathetic AOE. There needs to be a better method of green generation to make him even worth an ISO investment for anything outside of PvE.