Selling 2* champions - stop the bad math

Warbringa

MissChinch wrote:

Warbringa wrote:

MissChinch wrote:

Warbringa wrote:

....

Something to keep in mind, you don't get to just elect to receive one specific characters cover, so you're essentially working on all 14 (or 13 if you remove bagman) in parallel... Even if you went at your pace of 4-5 months, you average that out:

13(5 heroic tokens, 3 guaranteed 3* covers, 5CP and 375HC)

comes out to:
65 heroic tokens, 39 3* covers, 65CP and 4875 HC

which taken per month equates to:
13 to 16.25 heroic tokens,
7.8 to 9.75 3* covers,
13 to 16.25 CP and
975 to 1218.75 HC
per month, using the timeframe you stated in your post...

So even moving at that speed, it would be nice to know that just by championing and selling 2*s you could keep up with the game releasing a new character per month without worrying about new slots... and get a better than a heroic 10 pack to boot, not to mention the 3* covers and CP...

I'd say its worth serious consideration even if you take 4-5 months to max one out (which at the rate 2*s roll in seems extremely casual if you're already in the 3* range, and really quite slow even starting from scratch) but then again I'm a hoarder and don't like having covers for new characters I have to sell because I don't have slots to roster em...

I only have maxed out 8 of my 2* and they maxed out all within a week or two of each other. I would have to spend more than that to do so going forward as I already had all of those 2* characters maxed (lvl 94) and a hoard of iso sitting around when championing occurred. In addition, I would suffer having low 2* characters in required PvE as I rebuilt them since I do tend to utilize boosted 2* in several team combinations quite frequently. That iso will that I would spend on farming 2* will be better used to level 4* for Crash of Titans and champing all 3* both for effectiveness and actually seeing progression. I only earn per average 50,000 iso or so per week unless I am grinding...which I have stopped doing for the most part these days.

Makes total sense, how one values HC probably plays a part in it too, I'm still new enough to probably be over-valuing it by older account's standards... I dont have any of the dupes I want and am still over 10k HC away from having enough roster spots to roster everyone I want... I have to throttle down my CP and token usage for want of free roster space.

I thought it worth working out with the slow timeframe in mind just to show you still get a lot of throughput even in the slowest case... I totally see how its a no-go if the whole idea of the tradeoff doesn't generate value for you (which, if it doesn't, slower is probably better looking than faster anyhow) So its likely better to let evaluation of the rewards and not the timeframe drive the decision.

Yeah I understand that it can make sense but for me it just is going to take too long given how long it has take me to max out my current 2*. I suppose if I happen to be able to move into 4* land, those 2* covers may come about quite a bit faster.

Cousin Simpson

I've basically decided to hoard all of my 2* covers instead of selling all but one for each character (as I did prior to the sell-back update), and suddenly my daily ISO earnings have plummeted! CLEARLY A BUG.

tizian2015

The math is not so bad and D3 knows this. over the course of two weeks (after the introduction of this "feature", about 30 lightning rounds (most of them seeds +1 to reach 250 points) and a total of about 380 pvp-matches (including lr) i have a 2*droprate in a range of 5-7%, which is far away from old rate (and with the number of played matches its a relevant fact), i have made a thread about this matter, and posted mostly all my last results from pvp (esp.lr).

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45460

mckauhu

Don't you guys think it's better to think the benefits rather than how much is lost during recycling? I mean with every recycling 2*, you get 3 covers for a 3*, lots of iso, hp and cp's and LT

The Herald

mckauhu wrote:

Don't you guys think it's better to think the benefits rather than how much is lost during recycling? I mean with every recycling 2*, you get 3 covers for a 3*, lots of iso, hp and cp's and LT

I was contemplating redoing Champions for the bonuses before a massive iso8 pay out, so I'm more than happy now

BigRussian

this is a good way to basically trade 7,779 iso for non iso rewards. I'm a fan.

Pongie

Thanks to KDN, here are the maths for 3*

ISO rewards and costs:

Selling 3* =

+105,000
Using 13 covers (which would have been sold otherwise) = -6,500
Re-maxing the 3* to level 166 + champion fee = -127,419
Using 100 covers to max a champion (which would have been sold otherwise) = -50,000
ISO rewards for championing = +56,500

Total: -22,419

Non-ISO rewards

1500

= 500 from selling, 1000 from champion rewards
2x heroic tokens (can equal 1,250 if sold)
3x hero specific 4* (can equal 4,000 if sold)
50
5x latest legendary tokens (can equal 5,000 if sold)

Champion a 3* - 50 XP
Adding 12 covers - 60 XP
100 3* champion levels - 1000 XP
3 4* champion levels - 60 XP
Opening 2 Heroic tokens - 6 XP
Opening 5 legendary tokens - 50 XP

Total XP is 1226
If you also spend the command points to open 2 more legendary tokens 20 XP

and 4*

ISO rewards and costs:

Selling 4* =

+320,000
Using 13 covers (which would have been sold otherwise) = -13,000
Re-maxing the 4* to level 270 + champion fee = -378,321
Using 100 covers to max a champion (which would have been sold otherwise) = -100,000
ISO rewards for championing = +112,500

Total: -58,821

Non-ISO rewards

5000

= 1000 from selling, 4000 from champion rewards
250
10x latest legendary tokens (can equal 10,000 if sold)

Champion a 4* - 100 XP
Adding 12 covers - 120 XP
100 champion levels - 2000 XP
Opening 10 legendary tokens - 100 XP

Total XP is 2320
If you also spend the command points to open 14 more legendary tokens - 140 XP

and also 5*

ISO rewards and costs:

Selling 5* =

+500,000
Using 13 covers (which would have been sold otherwise) = -26,000
Re-maxing the 5* to level 450 + champion fee = -573,929
Using 100 covers to max a champion (which would have been sold otherwise) = -200,000
ISO rewards for championing = +220,000

Total: -79,929

Non-ISO rewards

21,250

= 2000 from selling, 19,250 from champion rewards
625
25x latest legendary tokens (can equal 25,000 if sold)

Champion a 5* - 200 XP
Adding 12 covers - 240 XP
100 champion levels - 4000 XP
Opening 25 legendary tokens - 250 XP

Total XP is 4690
If you also spend the command points to open 31 more legendary tokens - 310 XP

Edit: added XP

nigelregal

Need to add in the XP rewards for adding levels to champions as well into the equation.

For 2* When you go from nothing to a level 144 you gain:
- 46 XP getting to 13 covers
- 20 XP to champion
- 200 XP to go from 94 to 144
= Total of 266 XP for each 2* you flip

For 3* it would look like:
- 85 XP getting to 13 covers
- 50 XP to champion
- 1000 XP to go from 166 to 266
- 9XP for heroic tokens
- 70 XP for Legendary from CP use and Legendary tokens
= Total of 1214 XP for each 3* you flip

Assuming you are rank 70 1214 XP is worth ~17,000 ISO

Quebbster

nigelregal wrote:

Need to add in the XP rewards for adding levels to champions as well into the equation.

For 2* When you go from nothing to a level 144 you gain:
- 46 XP getting to 13 covers
- 20 XP to champion
- 200 XP to go from 94 to 144
= Total of 266 XP for each 2* you flip

For 3* it would look like:
- 85 XP getting to 13 covers
- 50 XP to champion
- 1000 XP to go from 166 to 266
- 9XP for heroic tokens
- 70 XP for Legendary from CP use and Legendary tokens
= Total of 1214 XP for each 3* you flip

Assuming you are rank 70 1214 XP is worth ~17,000 ISO

You are the first one to post in this thread since the SHIELD rank system was introduced. Just saying.

jobob

I get that there's an "opportunity cost," and that the ISO might be put to better use elsewhere. But, you also have to factor in the fact that a stash of ISO isn't doing you any good either. 65k ISO, whether it's tied up in a 2* or sitting in your hoard isn't going to do you any good if you are trying to champ a 4*, which costs around 370k in ISO.

But there is a smarter way to factor in opportunity cost and still make 2* a decent investment.

So I will usually keep about 3-4 maxed 2*, while I stockpile covers for the other 2* and keep them at level 15. The lvl 144 2* give me an easy team for DDQ. If I get to a point where I have enough ISO in my stash + the value of the 144's to add up to a 4* champ, I will "cash them in." And once I get enough ISO to champ a 2*, I'll add up my covers and put the ISO into whoever I have the most of. Typically, when I first champ a 2*, I will already have 20+ covers for that champ ready to go right away (it's around a character release and I've bought mutliple 40-packs, I will often champ them and take them right to 144 immediately). This way, even though you are tying up 72k in ISO, you are getting returns immediately. AND, you shorten the amount of time required to recoup the sell price dramatically. Plus, you get back taht high-level 2* for the DDQ.

Pongie

I always thought that you only get XP for adding covers (which are 12). Do you get the XP for the first cover? I thought that was covered if it was the first time you roster them. If it is, I'll adjust my figures accordingly

Pongie

Fixed up the mistakes. Serves me right for trying to post that on my mobile

tiberius02478

Not to rain on everyone's parade, but the numbers have changed (likely because the Devs realized that the players liked it). I have sold several 2* characters at the 65k ISO + 125 HP number. My most recent character to get there is now showing at a paltry 17.4k ISO & 100 HP. So it now costs you ~55k ISO to do that process. Much more painful than ~8k ISO...

(NOTE: I don't recall if I sold this character once already or not, so it may be 65k ISO the first time & then 17.4k ISO the second time...)

Has anyone else seen this?

deadtaco

It's a bug that has been discussed, not sure where to point you. Submit a ticket.

Orion

tiberius02478 wrote:

Not to rain on everyone's parade, but the numbers have changed (likely because the Devs realized that the players liked it). I have sold several 2* characters at the 65k ISO + 125 HP number. My most recent character to get there is now showing at a paltry 17.4k ISO & 100 HP. So it now costs you ~55k ISO to do that process. Much more painful than ~8k ISO...

(NOTE: I don't recall if I sold this character once already or not, so it may be 65k ISO the first time & then 17.4k ISO the second time...)

Has anyone else seen this?

I had the same problem. I submitted a ticket and they told me to sell the character and they would send me the difference. I did and they sent the rest of the ISO and HP a day or two later.

GreenMachine

Might I add, farming the 2* heroes really works to feed your Shield Clearance Level too.

tiberius02478

Thanks for the note about contacting Support. I was concerned that they decided to nerf that approach...

bbigler

My 2* Champed Ares at level 138 only sells for 16,900 ISO, so where are you getting 65,000 ISO from?

justplainchips

bbigler wrote:

My 2* Champed Ares at level 138 only sells for 16,900 ISO, so where are you getting 65,000 ISO from?

They (should) sell for 65,000 and 125HP when max champed at level 144.

Quebbster

bbigler wrote:

My 2* Champed Ares at level 138 only sells for 16,900 ISO, so where are you getting 65,000 ISO from?

A level 143 2* champion sells for around 18,000 ISO.
A level 144 2* champion sells for 65,000 ISO.
Yes, the effect of that last cover is that dramatic. Or it should be unless you encounter that bug mentioned here...