Selling 2* champions - stop the bad math

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  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,290 Chairperson of the Boards
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    MissChinch wrote:
    Warbringa wrote:
    MissChinch wrote:
    Warbringa wrote:
    ....


    Something to keep in mind, you don't get to just elect to receive one specific characters cover, so you're essentially working on all 14 (or 13 if you remove bagman) in parallel... Even if you went at your pace of 4-5 months, you average that out:

    13(5 heroic tokens, 3 guaranteed 3* covers, 5CP and 375HC)

    comes out to:
    65 heroic tokens, 39 3* covers, 65CP and 4875 HC

    which taken per month equates to:
    13 to 16.25 heroic tokens,
    7.8 to 9.75 3* covers,
    13 to 16.25 CP and
    975 to 1218.75 HC
    per month, using the timeframe you stated in your post...

    So even moving at that speed, it would be nice to know that just by championing and selling 2*s you could keep up with the game releasing a new character per month without worrying about new slots... and get a better than a heroic 10 pack to boot, not to mention the 3* covers and CP...

    I'd say its worth serious consideration even if you take 4-5 months to max one out (which at the rate 2*s roll in seems extremely casual if you're already in the 3* range, and really quite slow even starting from scratch) but then again I'm a hoarder and don't like having covers for new characters I have to sell because I don't have slots to roster em...

    I only have maxed out 8 of my 2* and they maxed out all within a week or two of each other. I would have to spend more than that to do so going forward as I already had all of those 2* characters maxed (lvl 94) and a hoard of iso sitting around when championing occurred. In addition, I would suffer having low 2* characters in required PvE as I rebuilt them since I do tend to utilize boosted 2* in several team combinations quite frequently. That iso will that I would spend on farming 2* will be better used to level 4* for Crash of Titans and champing all 3* both for effectiveness and actually seeing progression. I only earn per average 50,000 iso or so per week unless I am grinding...which I have stopped doing for the most part these days.

    Makes total sense, how one values HC probably plays a part in it too, I'm still new enough to probably be over-valuing it by older account's standards... I dont have any of the dupes I want and am still over 10k HC away from having enough roster spots to roster everyone I want... I have to throttle down my CP and token usage for want of free roster space.

    I thought it worth working out with the slow timeframe in mind just to show you still get a lot of throughput even in the slowest case... I totally see how its a no-go if the whole idea of the tradeoff doesn't generate value for you (which, if it doesn't, slower is probably better looking than faster anyhow) So its likely better to let evaluation of the rewards and not the timeframe drive the decision.

    Yeah I understand that it can make sense but for me it just is going to take too long given how long it has take me to max out my current 2*. I suppose if I happen to be able to move into 4* land, those 2* covers may come about quite a bit faster.
  • Cousin Simpson
    Cousin Simpson Posts: 1,086 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I've basically decided to hoard all of my 2* covers instead of selling all but one for each character (as I did prior to the sell-back update), and suddenly my daily ISO earnings have plummeted! CLEARLY A BUG.
  • tizian2015
    tizian2015 Posts: 194 Tile Toppler
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    The math is not so bad and D3 knows this. over the course of two weeks (after the introduction of this "feature", about 30 lightning rounds (most of them seeds +1 to reach 250 points) and a total of about 380 pvp-matches (including lr) i have a 2*droprate in a range of 5-7%, which is far away from old rate (and with the number of played matches its a relevant fact), i have made a thread about this matter, and posted mostly all my last results from pvp (esp.lr).

    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45460
  • mckauhu
    mckauhu Posts: 740 Critical Contributor
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    Don't you guys think it's better to think the benefits rather than how much is lost during recycling? I mean with every recycling 2*, you get 3 covers for a 3*, lots of iso, hp and cp's and LT
  • The Herald
    The Herald Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
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    mckauhu wrote:
    Don't you guys think it's better to think the benefits rather than how much is lost during recycling? I mean with every recycling 2*, you get 3 covers for a 3*, lots of iso, hp and cp's and LT

    I was contemplating redoing Champions for the bonuses before a massive iso8 pay out, so I'm more than happy now :p
  • BigRussian
    BigRussian Posts: 166 Tile Toppler
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    this is a good way to basically trade 7,779 iso for non iso rewards. I'm a fan.
  • Pongie
    Pongie Posts: 1,410 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2016
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    Thanks to KDN, here are the maths for 3*

    ISO rewards and costs:
      Selling 3* =
    +105,000 iso8.png
    Using 13 covers (which would have been sold otherwise) = -6,500 iso8.png
    Re-maxing the 3* to level 166 + champion fee = -127,419 iso8.png
    Using 100 covers to max a champion (which would have been sold otherwise) = -50,000 iso8.png
    ISO rewards for championing = +56,500 iso8.png

    Total: -22,419 iso8.png

    Non-ISO rewards
      1500
    spideycoin.png = 500 spideycoin.png from selling, 1000 spideycoin.png from champion rewards
    2x heroic tokens (can equal 1,250 iso8.png if sold)
    3x hero specific 4* (can equal 4,000 iso8.png if sold)
    50 commandpoints.png
    5x latest legendary tokens (can equal 5,000 iso8.png if sold)

    Champion a 3* - 50 XP
    Adding 12 covers - 60 XP
    100 3* champion levels - 1000 XP
    3 4* champion levels - 60 XP
    Opening 2 Heroic tokens - 6 XP
    Opening 5 legendary tokens - 50 XP

    Total XP is 1226
    If you also spend the command points to open 2 more legendary tokens 20 XP

    and 4*

    ISO rewards and costs:
      Selling 4* =
    +320,000 iso8.png
    Using 13 covers (which would have been sold otherwise) = -13,000 iso8.png
    Re-maxing the 4* to level 270 + champion fee = -378,321 iso8.png
    Using 100 covers to max a champion (which would have been sold otherwise) = -100,000 iso8.png
    ISO rewards for championing = +112,500 iso8.png

    Total: -58,821 iso8.png

    Non-ISO rewards
      5000
    spideycoin.png = 1000 spideycoin.png from selling, 4000 spideycoin.png from champion rewards
    250 commandpoints.png
    10x latest legendary tokens (can equal 10,000 iso8.png if sold)

    Champion a 4* - 100 XP
    Adding 12 covers - 120 XP
    100 champion levels - 2000 XP
    Opening 10 legendary tokens - 100 XP

    Total XP is 2320
    If you also spend the command points to open 14 more legendary tokens - 140 XP

    and also 5*

    ISO rewards and costs:
      Selling 5* =
    +500,000 iso8.png
    Using 13 covers (which would have been sold otherwise) = -26,000 iso8.png
    Re-maxing the 5* to level 450 + champion fee = -573,929 iso8.png
    Using 100 covers to max a champion (which would have been sold otherwise) = -200,000 iso8.png
    ISO rewards for championing = +220,000 iso8.png

    Total: -79,929 iso8.png

    Non-ISO rewards
      21,250
    spideycoin.png = 2000 spideycoin.png from selling, 19,250 spideycoin.png from champion rewards
    625 commandpoints.png
    25x latest legendary tokens (can equal 25,000 iso8.png if sold)

    Champion a 5* - 200 XP
    Adding 12 covers - 240 XP
    100 champion levels - 4000 XP
    Opening 25 legendary tokens - 250 XP

    Total XP is 4690
    If you also spend the command points to open 31 more legendary tokens - 310 XP

    Edit: added XP
  • nigelregal
    nigelregal Posts: 184 Tile Toppler
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    Need to add in the XP rewards for adding levels to champions as well into the equation.

    For 2* When you go from nothing to a level 144 you gain:
    - 46 XP getting to 13 covers
    - 20 XP to champion
    - 200 XP to go from 94 to 144
    = Total of 266 XP for each 2* you flip

    For 3* it would look like:
    - 85 XP getting to 13 covers
    - 50 XP to champion
    - 1000 XP to go from 166 to 266
    - 9XP for heroic tokens
    - 70 XP for Legendary from CP use and Legendary tokens
    = Total of 1214 XP for each 3* you flip

    Assuming you are rank 70 1214 XP is worth ~17,000 ISO
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
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    nigelregal wrote:
    Need to add in the XP rewards for adding levels to champions as well into the equation.

    For 2* When you go from nothing to a level 144 you gain:
    - 46 XP getting to 13 covers
    - 20 XP to champion
    - 200 XP to go from 94 to 144
    = Total of 266 XP for each 2* you flip

    For 3* it would look like:
    - 85 XP getting to 13 covers
    - 50 XP to champion
    - 1000 XP to go from 166 to 266
    - 9XP for heroic tokens
    - 70 XP for Legendary from CP use and Legendary tokens
    = Total of 1214 XP for each 3* you flip

    Assuming you are rank 70 1214 XP is worth ~17,000 ISO
    You are the first one to post in this thread since the SHIELD rank system was introduced. Just saying.
  • jobob
    jobob Posts: 680 Critical Contributor
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    I get that there's an "opportunity cost," and that the ISO might be put to better use elsewhere. But, you also have to factor in the fact that a stash of ISO isn't doing you any good either. 65k ISO, whether it's tied up in a 2* or sitting in your hoard isn't going to do you any good if you are trying to champ a 4*, which costs around 370k in ISO.

    But there is a smarter way to factor in opportunity cost and still make 2* a decent investment.

    So I will usually keep about 3-4 maxed 2*, while I stockpile covers for the other 2* and keep them at level 15. The lvl 144 2* give me an easy team for DDQ. If I get to a point where I have enough ISO in my stash + the value of the 144's to add up to a 4* champ, I will "cash them in." And once I get enough ISO to champ a 2*, I'll add up my covers and put the ISO into whoever I have the most of. Typically, when I first champ a 2*, I will already have 20+ covers for that champ ready to go right away (it's around a character release and I've bought mutliple 40-packs, I will often champ them and take them right to 144 immediately). This way, even though you are tying up 72k in ISO, you are getting returns immediately. AND, you shorten the amount of time required to recoup the sell price dramatically. Plus, you get back taht high-level 2* for the DDQ.
  • Pongie
    Pongie Posts: 1,410 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I always thought that you only get XP for adding covers (which are 12). Do you get the XP for the first cover? I thought that was covered if it was the first time you roster them. If it is, I'll adjust my figures accordingly
  • Pongie
    Pongie Posts: 1,410 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Fixed up the mistakes. Serves me right for trying to post that on my mobile
  • tiberius02478
    tiberius02478 Posts: 3
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    Not to rain on everyone's parade, but the numbers have changed (likely because the Devs realized that the players liked it). I have sold several 2* characters at the 65k ISO + 125 HP number. My most recent character to get there is now showing at a paltry 17.4k ISO & 100 HP. So it now costs you ~55k ISO to do that process. Much more painful than ~8k ISO...

    (NOTE: I don't recall if I sold this character once already or not, so it may be 65k ISO the first time & then 17.4k ISO the second time...)

    Has anyone else seen this?
  • deadtaco
    deadtaco Posts: 409 Mover and Shaker
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    It's a bug that has been discussed, not sure where to point you. Submit a ticket.
  • Orion
    Orion Posts: 1,295 Chairperson of the Boards
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    tiberius02478 wrote:
    Not to rain on everyone's parade, but the numbers have changed (likely because the Devs realized that the players liked it). I have sold several 2* characters at the 65k ISO + 125 HP number. My most recent character to get there is now showing at a paltry 17.4k ISO & 100 HP. So it now costs you ~55k ISO to do that process. Much more painful than ~8k ISO...

    (NOTE: I don't recall if I sold this character once already or not, so it may be 65k ISO the first time & then 17.4k ISO the second time...)

    Has anyone else seen this?

    I had the same problem. I submitted a ticket and they told me to sell the character and they would send me the difference. I did and they sent the rest of the ISO and HP a day or two later.
  • GreenMachine
    GreenMachine Posts: 52 Match Maker
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    Might I add, farming the 2* heroes really works to feed your Shield Clearance Level too.
  • tiberius02478
    tiberius02478 Posts: 3
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    Thanks for the note about contacting Support. I was concerned that they decided to nerf that approach...
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,115 Chairperson of the Boards
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    My 2* Champed Ares at level 138 only sells for 16,900 ISO, so where are you getting 65,000 ISO from?
  • justplainchips
    justplainchips Posts: 133 Tile Toppler
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    bbigler wrote:
    My 2* Champed Ares at level 138 only sells for 16,900 ISO, so where are you getting 65,000 ISO from?
    They (should) sell for 65,000 and 125HP when max champed at level 144.
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
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    bbigler wrote:
    My 2* Champed Ares at level 138 only sells for 16,900 ISO, so where are you getting 65,000 ISO from?
    A level 143 2* champion sells for around 18,000 ISO.
    A level 144 2* champion sells for 65,000 ISO.
    Yes, the effect of that last cover is that dramatic. Or it should be unless you encounter that bug mentioned here...

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