CW scaling goes boom

whycantwesyncpc

Nothing says great scaling like having a Hawkeye essential be a two wave fight with the first one being all 5* characters...

PeterGibbons316

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

Nothing says great scaling like having a Hawkeye essential be a two wave fight with the first one being all 5* characters...

The winter soldier one is no better. I busted my **** all week in the Hulk event to end up with 3 covers for him, and he's front and center against two waves of level 320 enemies. Say what? And I'm only in round 3 I think, can't wait to see what is in store for round 7........

Nick441234

There is absolutely no thought to this event whatsoever. I was just coming on here to complain about that Winter Soldier node in particular. I have 2 covers for him, so he's practically useless. So my 2 other guys (both level 170) now have to face off against 6 opponents all at 203. Its utterly laughable.

Bowgentle

Those two wave nodes are designed by people who hate their player base.
I'm sorry, I have no other explanation.
We're supposed to lose, again.

(not that I did, but if MY roster wouldn't be able to handle this then I don't know what could)

Linkster79

nick_chicane wrote:

There is absolutely no thought to this event whatsoever. I was just coming on here to complain about that Winter Soldier node in particular. I have 2 covers for him, so he's practically useless. So my 2 other guys (both level 170) now have to face off against 6 opponents all at 203. Its utterly laughable.

I have no Winter Soldier so had to switch over to the opposition and use my single covered Hulkbuster instead. Just as brutal.

smkspy

This event turned into a real civil war, especially for alliance comanders.

Also, if they meant for scaling to go this way. Then rewards should reflect that. Nothing more defeating than beating those insane all unique character waves or 200+ individual fights only to get critical boosts or a standard tokenn.

I'm not against harder battles but have it fair so that the rewards match the effort.

Likewise, individual progression awards should be much better. Makes no sense to earn a 3 star reward then the next tier reward is a measly 250 iso.

That's just no fun and gives me no incentive to either play more or spent money on the event.

Orion

Linkster79 wrote:

revskip wrote:

herm1978 wrote:

Really, what would be the harm in letting everyone clear the nodes since IM/cap is where all the points are anyway and they scaled just fine?

The main harm would be that there would be no real inherent benefit to having a superior roster and/or superior alliance.

If everyone gets every progression award and every alliance gets every progression award it isn't a contest it is a participation trophy. Now there are plenty of parents all over the country who love when their kids get that trophy for coming in absolutely last in their soccer league because it gives the kids that warm and fuzzy feeling that they did something even if all they did was show up. But I would argue that giving everyone the rewards not only dilutes the reward but also dilutes any sense of accomplishment for finishing the event.

As it stands now you need a top roster to hit top progression in Civil War. Which is exactly as it should be. I am in the 3* transition group and at no point did I expect to hit the top rewards because honestly I don't have the time put in to merit it. I don't have the entitlement that suggests I should get everything that people playing 2 years longer than me should.

I've progressed faster than most people with my days in by joining some top alliances early and grinding things out for those alliances. Why should casual alliances reap the same rewards as organized and grindy alliances? And if they did why would anyone ever aspire to actually be in a competitive alliance?

I have enjoyed getting my butt kicked by Cap at level 8 and by the wave nodes at level 8 a bunch more than I did kicking the snot out of under-leveled nodes in the early levels. I didn't mind chugging away early knowing that I was limiting my overall points for the betterment of the other people in my alliance precisely because I knew that when rounds 7-8 came around I'd be lucky to win anything without throwing deadpool whales at it. I am on pace to hit the second Black Panther cover by chipping in what I can with my limited roster and my alliance mates have been awesome about doing the heavy lifting in the late rounds. Which will net me a bunch of covers that would normally take me far longer to collect.

Having a good roster and being in a top alliance rewards the effort/money spent all year round, again I ask is it really a bad thing that for 1 or 2 events a year that almost every one can earn the best prizes? Those top alliances can still get the top awards they seek but with less effort and freeing up their time and resources for other events. New players and alliances can get the same but with a bit more effort and can encourage them to stick around long term. Allowing (almost) everybody the opportunity to get a 5* cover is hardly going to break the game, after all a single covered 5* isn't going to all of a sudden push somebody to first place in versus events. It isn't about giving folks a "participation" trophy at all, I see it as more of a thanks from D3. For the more experienced player it can be a thanks for sticking with them and for a newer player a thanks for giving their product a chance in a cut throat market. In business you have to speculate to accumulate and by throwing newer players a bone it may encourage them to spend a bit more in the future.

So you want 2* rosters and early 3* rosters to be handed a 5* cover? You know what happens after that, we've seen it dozens of times on the forum - "I won a 5* cover and now my scaling is completely out of whack. I'm facing max 4* teams and I can't get past 300 points in pvP and my PvE opponents are all 100 levels higher than anything I have. Help!"

revskip

firethorne wrote:

revskip wrote:

herm1978 wrote:

Really, what would be the harm in letting everyone clear the nodes since IM/cap is where all the points are anyway and they scaled just fine?

The main harm would be that there would be no real inherent benefit to having a superior roster and/or superior alliance.

Nonsense. Because the actual node where the points are, the bosses, still are there. Our alliance had people start wiping on round 5. I've got one of our better rosters, and I was having one man downed most of the time, with the other two fairly bruised. House party protocol is no tinykitty joke. The precious top one percenter's still were the only ones who'd win the final rounds, even without the brutal and demoralizing scaling. The "you're supposed to lose" design philosophy was still in place for all of us plebeians.

My alliance is top 50/100 PVE with rosters that range from 5* crushers to my lowly 2*-3* transition. We finished Iron Man this morning and are already in round 4 of Cap today. It was definitely possible to win, it did require coordination between the alliance members and certainly an alliance that has a few heavy hitters to take down the level 8 boss.

Orion wrote:

Linkster79 wrote:

Having a good roster and being in a top alliance rewards the effort/money spent all year round, again I ask is it really a bad thing that for 1 or 2 events a year that almost every one can earn the best prizes? Those top alliances can still get the top awards they seek but with less effort and freeing up their time and resources for other events. New players and alliances can get the same but with a bit more effort and can encourage them to stick around long term. Allowing (almost) everybody the opportunity to get a 5* cover is hardly going to break the game, after all a single covered 5* isn't going to all of a sudden push somebody to first place in versus events. It isn't about giving folks a "participation" trophy at all, I see it as more of a thanks from D3. For the more experienced player it can be a thanks for sticking with them and for a newer player a thanks for giving their product a chance in a cut throat market. In business you have to speculate to accumulate and by throwing newer players a bone it may encourage them to spend a bit more in the future.

So you want 2* rosters and early 3* rosters to be handed a 5* cover? You know what happens after that, we've seen it dozens of times on the forum - "I won a 5* cover and now my scaling is completely out of whack. I'm facing max 4* teams and I can't get past 300 points in pvP and my PvE opponents are all 100 levels higher than anything I have. Help!"

Pretty much the boat I'm in now. I have that Iron Man sitting in my cover queue and I have to decide in the next 13 days whether I take the plunge and harm my PVE scaling or sell it and then possibly have terrible luck drawing another one in the future. First world problem to be sure but still kind of a conundrum.

DeNappa

Orion wrote:

[snip]
So you want 2* rosters and early 3* rosters to be handed a 5* cover? You know what happens after that, we've seen it dozens of times on the forum - "I won a 5* cover and now my scaling is completely out of whack. I'm facing max 4* teams and I can't get past 300 points in pvP and my PvE opponents are all 100 levels higher than anything I have. Help!"

Well, instead of being stingy when it comes to giving out nice things, they could also try to fix these kind of scaling issues so this won't be a problem .

Linkster79

Orion wrote:

So you want 2* rosters and early 3* rosters to be handed a 5* cover? You know what happens after that, we've seen it dozens of times on the forum - "I won a 5* cover and now my scaling is completely out of whack. I'm facing max 4* teams and I can't get past 300 points in pvP and my PvE opponents are all 100 levels higher than anything I have. Help!"

That's an issue that shouldn't even be happening, no game should be made harder for getting better rewards! That being said I would like the newer players in these events at least be given that problem to deal with. Events like this are (or at least should be) marketing tools, not just for the license but also the game and by excluding a large portion of that market they are doing everyone involved a disservice.

Thevipper

Orion wrote:

Linkster79 wrote:

revskip wrote:

herm1978 wrote:

Really, what would be the harm in letting everyone clear the nodes since IM/cap is where all the points are anyway and they scaled just fine?

The main harm would be that there would be no real inherent benefit to having a superior roster and/or superior alliance.

If everyone gets every progression award and every alliance gets every progression award it isn't a contest it is a participation trophy. Now there are plenty of parents all over the country who love when their kids get that trophy for coming in absolutely last in their soccer league because it gives the kids that warm and fuzzy feeling that they did something even if all they did was show up. But I would argue that giving everyone the rewards not only dilutes the reward but also dilutes any sense of accomplishment for finishing the event.

As it stands now you need a top roster to hit top progression in Civil War. Which is exactly as it should be. I am in the 3* transition group and at no point did I expect to hit the top rewards because honestly I don't have the time put in to merit it. I don't have the entitlement that suggests I should get everything that people playing 2 years longer than me should.

I've progressed faster than most people with my days in by joining some top alliances early and grinding things out for those alliances. Why should casual alliances reap the same rewards as organized and grindy alliances? And if they did why would anyone ever aspire to actually be in a competitive alliance?

I have enjoyed getting my butt kicked by Cap at level 8 and by the wave nodes at level 8 a bunch more than I did kicking the snot out of under-leveled nodes in the early levels. I didn't mind chugging away early knowing that I was limiting my overall points for the betterment of the other people in my alliance precisely because I knew that when rounds 7-8 came around I'd be lucky to win anything without throwing deadpool whales at it. I am on pace to hit the second Black Panther cover by chipping in what I can with my limited roster and my alliance mates have been awesome about doing the heavy lifting in the late rounds. Which will net me a bunch of covers that would normally take me far longer to collect.

Having a good roster and being in a top alliance rewards the effort/money spent all year round, again I ask is it really a bad thing that for 1 or 2 events a year that almost every one can earn the best prizes? Those top alliances can still get the top awards they seek but with less effort and freeing up their time and resources for other events. New players and alliances can get the same but with a bit more effort and can encourage them to stick around long term. Allowing (almost) everybody the opportunity to get a 5* cover is hardly going to break the game, after all a single covered 5* isn't going to all of a sudden push somebody to first place in versus events. It isn't about giving folks a "participation" trophy at all, I see it as more of a thanks from D3. For the more experienced player it can be a thanks for sticking with them and for a newer player a thanks for giving their product a chance in a cut throat market. In business you have to speculate to accumulate and by throwing newer players a bone it may encourage them to spend a bit more in the future.

So you want 2* rosters and early 3* rosters to be handed a 5* cover? You know what happens after that, we've seen it dozens of times on the forum - "I won a 5* cover and now my scaling is completely out of whack. I'm facing max 4* teams and I can't get past 300 points in pvP and my PvE opponents are all 100 levels higher than anything I have. Help!"

And that should not be a problem events should not scale up if the iso dont ill face lvl 40 jugs all day with my 5 star gaining 70 iso or crit boost if it means the match is 1 min and the event is cleared in less than 1 hr

Frustrated1

I have advised my alliance not to spend any money (and we've got a couple of heavy hitters) just because of the ridiculous nature this "event".

Don't we play games to have fun and be challenged?

Oh, I forgot.

" You're supposed to lose."

Pylgrim

Linkster79 wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Let's be honest. The scaling for the first 6 rounds was not "reasonable", it was laughably easy. A team of 1*s could have finished those nodes, no exaggeration. Can people really be upset that they literally gave away two covers of one the best character in the game (if you picked team IM, that is) just because for the third one they ramped the difficulty to where it should be?

Would it be a bad thing that newer players could compete in an event that brought them to the game? I know if I downloaded the game because if this event to find myself wiping out to the nodes before the big boss I would be uninstalling asap.

But... it allowed them to do so! For a full day, a newbie could enjoy and compete and earn rewards. In fact, I'd argue that the difficulty increase is the curved end of that pointy hook that makes sure the fish remains hooked: Those players now have a reason to keep playing and improve their rosters because they can see there are stages of the game that they can only access with a good roster, but in the meantime the had fun and got nice rewards.

Linkster79 wrote:

Orion wrote:

So you want 2* rosters and early 3* rosters to be handed a 5* cover? You know what happens after that, we've seen it dozens of times on the forum - "I won a 5* cover and now my scaling is completely out of whack. I'm facing max 4* teams and I can't get past 300 points in pvP and my PvE opponents are all 100 levels higher than anything I have. Help!"

That's an issue that shouldn't even be happening, no game should be made harder for getting better rewards! That being said I would like the newer players in these events at least be given that problem to deal with. Events like this are (or at least should be) marketing tools, not just for the license but also the game and by excluding a large portion of that market they are doing everyone involved a disservice.

Wait, so you are arguing that newbies should be allowed to compete for the top notch rewards and that no part in the system discourages them from doing so? So if a newbie can get 5*s with no penalty, that player just needs to get a bit lucky and draw some other 5*s to be able to completely skip the 2*-3*-4* transition. At what point is that fair for the players that have trudged for 2+ years? If a team of 1*s can cruise an event and get all the rewards, what's the point of having a wide roster and levelling up your characters? And if there's no point in growing your roster... what's the point of rewards anyway and of playing?

Bryan Lambert

New players can get 5*'s already. All they have to do is play low-scaled PvE's, earn command points, buy legendary tokens, and get lucky.

One of the most impressive things D3 has managed to do, intentionally or otherwise, is to get its playerbase arguing with each other over which of them deserve a chunk of imited rewards more than the others.

biryon

Pylgrim wrote:

Wait, so you are arguing that newbies should be allowed to compete for the top notch rewards and that no part in the system discourages them from doing so? So if a newbie can get 5*s with no penalty, that player just needs to get a bit lucky and draw some other 5*s to be able to completely skip the 2*-3*-4* transition. At what point is that fair for the players that have trudged for 2+ years? If a team of 1*s can cruise an event and get all the rewards, what's the point of having a wide roster and levelling up your characters? And if there's no point in growing your roster... what's the point of rewards anyway and of playing?

Why do you keep ignoring the boss battle? Match damage alone will wipe out 1* teams really fast. No 1* teams are cruising through the boss battle, where the vast majority of points are located. You're not getting great rewards by doing the side nodes and wiping repeatedly after a few turns on the boss node.

Also, the boss fight is the only thing with set scaling. The side nodes scale to roster. The crazy scaling you're supporting actually hurts the newbies less. It hurts more with leveled characters. So if anything, it actually discourages you from leveling up your characters. If the side nodes had scaled by round instead of by time & roster, *that* would've encouraged progressing your characters.

1* teams have an easier time getting 3, 4, and 5 star rewards by playing normal PVEs every day, where they're on equal footing with all other players. Strangely, you seem to be ok with that, but when they add a challenging, non-scaling boss battle in a one-time event (ok, two-time), suddenly lowbie teams getting rewards is a problem.

To answer your last question, you should be playing a game because it's FUN. Not because it makes you better than other people. Because it's FUN. The point of getting rewards is because it's FUN. This is the point the devs seem to keep missing. You can have good rewards, but if you make it so people aren't having FUN getting them, they are going to stop playing.

alphabeta

biryon wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Wait, so you are arguing that newbies should be allowed to compete for the top notch rewards and that no part in the system discourages them from doing so? So if a newbie can get 5*s with no penalty, that player just needs to get a bit lucky and draw some other 5*s to be able to completely skip the 2*-3*-4* transition. At what point is that fair for the players that have trudged for 2+ years? If a team of 1*s can cruise an event and get all the rewards, what's the point of having a wide roster and levelling up your characters? And if there's no point in growing your roster... what's the point of rewards anyway and of playing?

Why do you keep ignoring the boss battle? Match damage alone will wipe out 1* teams really fast. No 1* teams are cruising through the boss battle, where the vast majority of points are located. You're not getting great rewards by doing the side nodes and wiping repeatedly after a few turns on the boss node.

Also, the boss fight is the only thing with set scaling. The side nodes scale to roster. The crazy scaling you're supporting actually hurts the newbies less. It hurts more with leveled characters. So if anything, it actually discourages you from leveling up your characters. If the side nodes had scaled by round instead of by time & roster, *that* would've encouraged progressing your characters.

1* teams have an easier time getting 3, 4, and 5 star rewards by playing normal PVEs every day, where they're on equal footing with all other players. Strangely, you seem to be ok with that, but when they add a challenging, non-scaling boss battle in a one-time event (ok, two-time), suddenly lowbie teams getting rewards is a problem.

To answer your last question, you should be playing a game because it's FUN. Not because it makes you better than other people. Because it's FUN. The point of getting rewards is because it's FUN. This is the point the devs seem to keep missing. You can have good rewards, but if you make it so people aren't having FUN getting them, they are going to stop playing.

The people who will stop playing aren't the ones who spend money on the game so the devs won't care or miss them for a second - there has to be a bias towards those who spend or they might stop spending and that's the devs meal ticket - it really is as simple as that.

HxiiiK

I'm pretty okay with reasonable scaling, but the genius who decided, "hey, you know what would be fun? 3* Cap Marv in ALL the wave nodes! At level 300 she'll just use energy absorption on every **** skill, THAT'll challenge the players!" should find the nearest ditch and bury himself in it

Pylgrim

biryon wrote:

1* teams have an easier time getting 3, 4, and 5 star rewards by playing normal PVEs every day, where they're on equal footing with all other players. Strangely, you seem to be ok with that, but when they add a challenging, non-scaling boss battle in a one-time event (ok, two-time), suddenly lowbie teams getting rewards is a problem.

See, I'm not complaining or having a problem particularly in this event with new players getting high rewards. That's, in my opinion, bad all the time, but not the point of my argument in this thread. The only "problem" I'm rallying against in this thread is the people who, not satisfied with having had one of the easiest events in the history of the game yet, feel the need to complain about it not being /even/ easier. That's all.

To answer your last question, you should be playing a game because it's FUN. Not because it makes you better than other people. Because it's FUN. The point of getting rewards is because it's FUN. This is the point the devs seem to keep missing. You can have good rewards, but if you make it so people aren't having FUN getting them, they are going to stop playing.

Who's saying that the goal of the game is to feel superior to anybody? I am talking about "FUN" as well. Do you know game theory? Progression and a sense of achievement are big components of what makes games fun. If you play an RPG where characters don't level up and neither do the challenges, leaving you to simply slay harmless slimes for countless hours, you'll get bored pretty fast. Similarly, if you play a multiplayer game in which a character that you have grown and trained for days and days faces against a character that achieved the same power by simply inserting a cheat code, you'll feel pretty cheated of your sense of achievement, eliminating your fun.

Malcrof

HxiiiK wrote:

I'm pretty okay with reasonable scaling, but the genius who decided, "hey, you know what would be fun? 3* Cap Marv in ALL the wave nodes! At level 300 she'll just use energy absorption on every tinykitty skill, THAT'll challenge the players!" should find the nearest ditch and bury himself in it

Considering she's softened, and does not even generate black, its a non issue.

I love that fact that it is loads more challenging now, heck, its sorta nice to see my OML die once in a while, keeps ya humble.

HxiiiK

Malcrof wrote:

HxiiiK wrote:

I'm pretty okay with reasonable scaling, but the genius who decided, "hey, you know what would be fun? 3* Cap Marv in ALL the wave nodes! At level 300 she'll just use energy absorption on every tinykitty skill, THAT'll challenge the players!" should find the nearest ditch and bury himself in it

Considering she's softened, and does not even generate black, its a non issue.

I love that fact that it is loads more challenging now, heck, its sorta nice to see my OML die once in a while, keeps ya humble.

OML dies a bit more than I'd like, seeing as he is only at 1 yellow

Don't get me wrong, I like the challenge but when you put Spidey/She-Hulk/Ares to slow down my advance and burn out my stockpile of AP then throw out CapMarv/****/Goon with AP Reduction, the game kinda stops being fun

The rest are okay-ish, but CapMarv at this scaling level is a tad more "challenging" than I'd like