Is it time for daily 4* in DDQ?

Linkster79

SnowcaTT wrote:

Oh - hey - look at that, two more 4*'s, getting the game to 33. Really looking forward to both the 4* DDQ and the flood of ISO that D3 has planned to introduce with the Civil War event!

(always hopeful, or slightly mad?)

Neither, very delusional

mpqr7

ISO is all most of us need. ISO.

I remember when all my characters were max-leveled for the amount of covers they had. That was a looooong, long time ago. Once DDQ happened, then I got a flood of new covers and never, ever had that problem again.

I'm happy to get new covers, but I really need the ISO to champ my characters. It's very sad that it basically takes a month to champ each 4*, so I only get to champ twelve 4*s each year. That's so painfully slow. And they're not even that useful after you already have the good ones champed. I wish that of my 91 rostered characters, more of them were actually useful. I wish I had a reason to play with more than just my 5 - 10 favorites.

bpcontra

I want this...badly...believe me. But to play devils advocate, would this encourage people to skip the 3* tier?? Does this make championing 3*s useless?

Dayv

I'd like to see a daily 4* cover and increase the one-on-one matchup for LTs to twice per cycle, on days 5 (current one) and 2. Or switch it to a six-day cycle instead of five days and run the one-on-one every three days.

ZootSax

bpcontra wrote:

I want this...badly...believe me. But to play devils advocate, would this encourage people to skip the 3* tier?? Does this make championing 3*s useless?

Regardless of whether or not they do 4* DDQ, that ship has already sailed. I'm firmly in the 2*-->3* transition (no 5*'s only two semi-usable 4*'s--5/3/5 Devil Dino & 2/4/2 Fury) and the current season has really put an exclamation point on the number of 1*-->2* players who are skipping the 2* & 3* transition entirely through 4* & 5* acquisition. Each event I'll face 2-3 different players with loaner + 2x5*'s with 1-3 covers. When I look at their rosters, the next best characters are typically 1-5 cover 4*'s and their only maxed characters are 1*'s--they'll have partially 2*'s and 3*'s, but why use them when you have two level 255 behemoths to do the heavy-lifting? In the current meta, it's hard to find a reason for a new player not to take this route. If you're in what used to be the 1*-->2* transition, by the time you have maxed 3*'s following the traditional path and *should* be ready to start the 4* game, there will be at least a dozen new 4*s...probably many more. The 4* path "the old fashioned way" will be a snail's pace at that point and that's even still assuming that 166 3*'s will even be able to hit 1,000 in PVP at that time. If they're willing to grind for 4* covers on releases as well as the 25CP in PVE, that's a MUCH more reliable way to handle 4* transition than anything relying on what vets had to do 6+ months ago. to get where they are now. I'm not sure I like that this is the way things seem to be, but that's where we're at.

Calnexin

ZootSax wrote:

why use them when you have two level 255 behemoths to do the heavy-lifting? In the current meta, it's hard to find a reason for a new player not to take this route.

Mainly because it's really expensive.

A 255 5* with a couple of covers will help with your match damage, sure. They might even be able to fire off a power that's productive.

I see these teams a lot in PvP, and I hit every single one of them. Any character with less than 5 covers, 1*-5*, is an easy win. Those who field single cover 5* either

a) don't care about being hit, or
b) naively think the raw opponent level will act as a deterrent

Anyone with an aim to PvP progression should not be running 5*s unless they're viable. The only way to hit good rewards with such a team is to constantly shield after a win. Plus, their PvE scaling is absurd. Struggling through lv255-scaled opponents with a primarily 2* team would be unpleasant.

mohio

OneLastGambit wrote:

I guess the point I was making is: why not flood all players with iso?
The lower level players aren't going to suddenly catch up to vets because they've got tons of iso because during the 2* level you always have more iso than covers.

Saying they'll catch up to vets is like saying if I pay no tax and Bill gates pays 95% I will catch up to his bank balance pretty quick.

Vets and whales are light years ahead of noobs and it will always be that way no matter how much iso noobs get so just give it to everyone in all levels of play. By the time the noobs can spend it (during 3* transition) they'll have the issue of a lack of covers to slow them down again.

The reason you don't see suggestions to just flood the game with ISO, or that are based on MMR/scaling, etc. is because the devs have explicitly stated multiple times that they do not want to turn up the iso flow for everyone because that would make the early stages of the game too short. They want people to actually decide which 2* they want to level to be their main team until they can earn more 3*. Same for 3*. If iso flow were tuned for what a 4/5* player "needs", it would be trivial for a 2* to just max all their toons in a matter of a couple weeks. No need to be discriminate about what 3* to level, just level cap them as you get covers because the iso flow will be able to cover that. It marginalizes the 1* and 2* game completely, and they do not want that to happen.

elusive

Where I am right now, I'd be happy to even get a four star once a week. I'm still stuck in that three to four star transition hell and can't even beat the weekly LT node.

Orion

elusive wrote:

Where I am right now, I'd be happy to even get a four star once a week. I'm still stuck in that three to four star transition hell and can't even beat the weekly LT node.

So you can't get to 1k in any PvP? I've seen people post that they can get there with a 3* roster. You can't reach max progression in PvE? It usually only takes 3 clears a round with maybe a tiny bit of grinding in between. The weekly 4* DDQ isn't for people beginning the 4* transition, it's for people with a medium amount of covers in each 4*. You're better off worrying about the 4*s you can get in each PvP or PvE.

firethorne

Orion wrote:

elusive wrote:

Where I am right now, I'd be happy to even get a four star once a week. I'm still stuck in that three to four star transition hell and can't even beat the weekly LT node.

So you can't get to 1k in any PvP? I've seen people post that they can get there with a 3* roster. You can't reach max progression in PvE? It usually only takes 3 clears a round with maybe a tiny bit of grinding in between. The weekly 4* DDQ isn't for people beginning the 4* transition, it's for people with a medium amount of covers in each 4*. You're better off worrying about the 4*s you can get in each PvP or PvE.

It certainly isn't getting any easier for 3* teams. PvP is mostly impossible without a few shields. With hops, not impossible, but a hell of a lot more difficult than it is for people running a 4/4/4 OML, hitting 1000 without even burning though any health packs. Even with the updates, on a "win" it isn't uncommon to lose more points than you've won when fielding a 3* team. If you're two tiers behind in the meta, you are an instant target.

PvE is a bit more viable, but even there, not having the required character on the highest point node can also be a problem for getting points.

And, at the end, there's the question of is it actually worth it? Is it fun? From demoralizing shield hops where you lose progress to having to treat the game like a full time job and spend hours clearing pve nodes, this is where the game is really failing. The question shouldn't just be, "Is it possible?" You also need to ask, "Is it is fun?". And a game developer should find a large segment of the player base answering 'no' to be very troubling. Games are supposed to be fun. The developers have lost sight of making it fun for a clear segment of players.

KGB

mohio wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

I guess the point I was making is: why not flood all players with iso?
The lower level players aren't going to suddenly catch up to vets because they've got tons of iso because during the 2* level you always have more iso than covers.

Saying they'll catch up to vets is like saying if I pay no tax and Bill gates pays 95% I will catch up to his bank balance pretty quick.

Vets and whales are light years ahead of noobs and it will always be that way no matter how much iso noobs get so just give it to everyone in all levels of play. By the time the noobs can spend it (during 3* transition) they'll have the issue of a lack of covers to slow them down again.

The reason you don't see suggestions to just flood the game with ISO, or that are based on MMR/scaling, etc. is because the devs have explicitly stated multiple times that they do not want to turn up the iso flow for everyone because that would make the early stages of the game too short. They want people to actually decide which 2* they want to level to be their main team until they can earn more 3*. Same for 3*. If iso flow were tuned for what a 4/5* player "needs", it would be trivial for a 2* to just max all their toons in a matter of a couple weeks. No need to be discriminate about what 3* to level, just level cap them as you get covers because the iso flow will be able to cover that. It marginalizes the 1* and 2* game completely, and they do not want that to happen.

Then why not tie double and triple ISO to your anniversary date?

When you hit the 2 year resupply (day 720) you get starting getting double ISO rewards. At the 3 year resupply date you get triple ISO rewards. This makes a nice incentive for vets to keep playing without flooding the game with ISO for everyone.

KGB

ClydeFrog76

firethorne wrote:

And, at the end, there's the question of is it actually worth it? Is it fun? From demoralizing shield hops where you lose progress to having to treat the game like a full time job and spend hours clearing pve nodes, this is where the game is really failing. The question shouldn't just be, "Is it possible?" You also need to ask, "Is it is fun?". And a game developer should find a large segment of the player base answering 'no' to be very troubling. Games are supposed to be fun. The developers have lost sight of making it fun for a clear segment of players.

100% this.

grunzadin

firethorne wrote:

Games are supposed to be fun.

Games need to be engaging, but they don't have to be fun. For instance the Dark Souls games regularly leave players wanting to throw a controller across the room, but a lot of people love that challenge.

Games can be fun, and fun is certainly a good thing, but games don't have to be fun to be compelling.

kirk justice

grunzadin wrote:

firethorne wrote:

Games are supposed to be fun.

Games need to be engaging, but they don't have to be fun. For instance the Dark Souls games regularly leave players wanting to throw a controller across the room, but a lot of people love that challenge.

Games can be fun, and fun is certainly a good thing, but games don't have to be fun to be compelling.

I'm pretty sure most people play Dark Souls because they find the challenge itself to be fun. Also because they're just really good games (in my opinion at least).

ClydeFrog76

kirk justice wrote:

I'm pretty sure most people play Dark Souls because they find the challenge itself to be fun. Also because they're just really good games (in my opinion at least).

Also because Miyazaki and co craft some of the most amazing digital worlds you can find. Exploring a new Souls game for the first time is an experience that can't be beaten.

SnowcaTT

With Fury/IW confirmed, looks like regular rotation. Assuming XF is re-inserted in rotation and Howard isn't run again this rotation, the current rotation will restart again in approximately December. That's right - if you have a character that will win one of these, you won't get a chance to win again for SIX MONTHS.

05/17/2016 Fury vs. 270 Magneto
05/22/2016 Invisible Woman vs 270 Quicksilver
05/27/2016 Hulkbuster vs 270 Hulk
06/01/2016 DPXF vs 270 X-force
06/06/2016 Thor vs 270 Ragnarock
06/11/2016 Elektra vs 270 Blade
06/16/2016 Ant-Man vs 270 Jean Grey
06/21/2016 Starlord vs 270 Gamora
06/26/2016 PX vs 270 Elektra
07/01/2016 KP vs 270 Luke Cage
07/06/2016 Carnage vs 270 Doctor Octopus
07/11/2016 Thing vs 270 Human Torch
07/16/2016 FalCap vs 270 Captain Marvel
07/21/2016 Jean Grey vs 270 Moonstone
07/26/2016 Mr. Fantastic vs 270 Dr. Doom
07/31/2016 Iceman vs 270 Jean Grey
08/05/2016 Cyclops vs 270 Hulkbuster
08/10/2016 RHulk vs 222 Hulk
08/15/2016 X-23 vs 270 Electra
08/20/2016 Ghost Rider vs 270 Galactus
08/25/2016 Cho-Hulk vs 2/2/2 level 270 Beast
08/30/2016 Miles vs 270 Starlord
09/04/2016 Venom vs 270 Carnage
09/09/2016 Nova vs 270 FalCap
09/14/2016 Spider-Gwen vs 270 Spider-Miles
09/19/2016 X-force vs. 270 Cyclops [??? Placeholder, missed X-force in 3rd rotation]
09/24/2016 Quake vs 270???
09/29/2016 Punisher vs 270???
10/04/2016 Drax vs 270???
10/09/2016 Winter Soldier vs 270???
10/14/2016 Dino (anniversary) vs 222 Squirrel Girl [Placeholder, assumed]
10/19/2016 War Machine vs 270???
10/24/2016 June release #1 (4* character 34)
10/29/2016 June release #2 (4* character 35)
11/03/2016 July release #1 (4* character 36)
11/08/2016 July release #2 (4* character 37)
11/13/2016 August release #1 (4* character 38)
11/18/2016 August release #2 (4* character 39)
11/23/2016 September release #1 (4* character 40)
11/28/2016 September release #2 (4* character 41)
12/03/2016 October release #1 (4* character 42)
12/08/2016 October release #2 (4* character 43)
....note that by this point, you'd have more 4*'s than 3*'s even if you discount Howard/Dino.
12/13/2016 November release #1 (possible re-run date).
12/18/2016 November release #2

THIS is why the 4*'s need to be inserted daily - NOW. So much time between specific characters otherwise! Leave this LT node that pops up every five days. But in addition, make daily 4* specific node(s) in DDQ to get the specific covers allotted out, and allow people to improve all their 4*'s while encouraging them to do so.

philosorapt0r

Another possibility: on Clash of Titans days, give people an either/or choice: do the 1-v-1 for a LT, or do DDQ-style 1-cover-required nodes that give a fixed cover reward for that hero. That way people who are early in their 4* transition (or who just don't have many covers for that character) can still progress, but without simply increasing the flow of 4* covers for the haves.

Slarow

It doesn't have to jump from one every 5 days to one every day. Why not progress slowly. Move to one every 4 days as a first step.

Tony_Foot

I don't think it matters anymore. I am a 3 star player with almost two full covered 4 stars. I am already thinking of abandoning champing all but the best 3 stars and then just saving iso. The 4 star game will skip me by. I will end up with a better 5 star sooner than it took me to get 13 covers on one 4 star. Even if they gave me a 4 star cover every day for no effort, just for logging on I will not put iso into them past 150. What's the point? I collect them for essentials and that's it.

So because of that reason, people like me that will have 3 and 5 star rosters they have no choice but to launch 4 star PVP asap. Or people like me will eventually end up with 30 odd 4 stars with 13 covers and not bother putting any iso into them in the same way you have 2 stars moonstone at level 15 for essential nodes.

They completely ****ed up 5 stars.

SnowcaTT

Tony Foot wrote:

I don't think it matters anymore. I am a 3 star player with almost two full covered 4 stars. I am already thinking of abandoning champing all but the best 3 stars and then just saving iso. The 4 star game will skip me by. I will end up with a better 5 star sooner than it took me to get 13 covers on one 4 star. Even if they gave me a 4 star cover every day for no effort, just for logging on I will not put iso into them past 150. What's the point? I collect them for essentials and that's it.

So because of that reason, people like me that will have 3 and 5 star rosters they have no choice but to launch 4 star PVP asap. Or people like me will eventually end up with 30 odd 4 stars with 13 covers and not bother putting any iso into them in the same way you have 2 stars moonstone at level 15 for essential nodes.

They completely ****ed up 5 stars.

I'm tracking what happens when you max a 5* and I'll post in the next couple days. It is Not Good.

Colog has a thread of "irrelevant" (seven originally, the number is growing) over in characters. His point being yours - all you need is a couple of good 4*'s max covered and by that time you'll get six-covered 5*'s....and all 4*'s will be forever irrelevant to you. Sad, sad state of the game.