The Hulk was my most favorite event, but....
Comments
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mechgouki wrote:Eddiemon wrote:It is what you want. You are still here. You still play. The devs look at that and know that there is no issue. You claim there is an issue and cry a lot but your actions which are truer than your words say there is no issue. They value the stats from the game over the echo chamber on here.
Selective hearing, basically. Thanks for telling.
Surprising as this might seem, I am not the only person who has expressed discontent at the scaling system. When many people agree on the same thing, could there actually be a legitimate concern?
I don't think 'selective hearing' has ever been defined as listening to the majority before. But yes, if that's how you see it, they selectively listen to the majority instead of you. Though technically as I have pointed out you are still here and playing so they are listening to you too. You enjoy the game the way it is too much to quit, so that is a tick of approval.
Yes more than you have had a whine, but the content majority don't make any noise because things are fine. The player numbers, activity numbers and revenue numbers back this up. So you and the ten or so others on here regularly complaining are totally irrelevant in the scheme of things and they know it.
But few people agree with you. Many, by far the majority keep playing and aren't abandoning the game in droves. You are the minority, just a very noisy minority. People who are happy generally don't make noise and you keep looking at the echoes to feed your belief that you represent a vast group of players. You don't. Even if everyone on the forum agreed with you we are a fraction of a fraction of the player base. Which as mentioned is growing, playing more actively and paying more.0 -
jozier wrote:Yes, it was entirely broken in TaT. They fixed it considerably since.
The problem with TaT is that the same grinding mechanics were present and the scaling was completely uneven across the board - especially since there was no community scaling. Community scaling is a huge change that has benefited the high level players and I prefer it to the original version of scaling.
No, your previous complaint was that lvl 230 characters kept you locked out of the event. Now that they aren't a problem for you, you think they're great and everyone complaining about lvl 230 characters is an idiot.
There's nothing wrong with liking mechanics because you feel they give you an advantage. But at least be honest about it.0 -
MarvelMan wrote:jozier wrote:The problem is that a lot of tinykitty people are claiming to speak for everyone.
"We" don't need you to speak up for us. I like scaling. It reduces grind and rewards high level players the most.
Little correction here, it rewards LOW players first and high level players second. Not sure I like agreeing with mech, but he is right that it wipes out the middle ground. My roster is nowhere near as high as yours: 3x 85 plus one over 100 (at 101) but Im getting 3x 210 in the EASY sub.
You're in for a rude awakening if you think there is a massive power boost. 3 x 141 is more powerful than 3x85, but it isn't an order of magnitude better, and if OBW is one of your 85s you may not have a replacement 141. I have 1 141, patch I think just crossed 100 for me and everything else is a mess.
It's more about playing the boosted characters and controlling colours than anything else. With an effective 100 level boost a 60 anything is better than an unboosted 141. CStorm has been one of the best characters the last 2 events and those character boosts level the playing field between high and medium rosters.0 -
DaveyPitch wrote:I thought it'd been a few days since a mechgouki moan thread, so I guess we were about due one.
That literally made me laugh. It is like clockwork.0 -
The 3* really aren't that much stronger for these event unless they happen to be one of the more broken ones. But that's just because they're broken. Wolverine 2* absolutely owned The Hulk to the point there wasn't a need for anyone else because he was broken during the time of The Hulk.
The problem with the so-called mid tier guys is that they're trying to pump all their iso8 into one character that's level 141, but unless that guy is Magneto, it's not going to be enough to matter. Yes, not even Spiderman helps, because he's not an offensive threat so you'd still die from boredom even if you were handed a level 141 Spiderman without the corresponding offensive pieces. Technically you can win most fight with a level 141 Spiderman and 2 level 1s, but it'd take half an hour at the very least to go through a team of 230X3s and you'd still be way behind just because your games take too long to finish.0 -
mechgouki wrote:Eddiemon wrote:The scaling system is to avoid having to grind everything. A grind is fantastic for people who don't have jobs. The same people who don't pay anything towards the game. That's why they are putting in scaling, so short bursts of quality play are more value than constant grinding.
Correct me if I am wrong here. But wasn't that what rubberbanding was for? And bracketing too, most likely putting you in the same leaderboard where the same people have the same grind time.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong anywhere here. From what I know, scaling doesn't directly help you with not grinding. What it does is effectively wipe out the middle ground of the player group. The ones left behind are those low-tiers, the high levels, and those middle-tiers with Spider-man or a lot of dedication.
Your competition is reduced to the new players, the top players, and those who have the heart and means to battle those endless 230 mobs. Those stuck in the middle, will probably have to use Spider-man, burn a lot ISOs on boosts, and possibly spend no less than 15 minutes on every single battle as well. The end result is a lot less people to compete with you. Thus you grind less.
Those who want to compete for top place, either has to already have a strong team, a newbie team, or be willing to slug it out against enemies having much higher levels than them, burning a lot of boosts, using whatever cheap trick they can dig up (Spidey), and spend a colossal amount of time per battle, consuming almost every health pack they have.
You only need to grind a little more than the second highest player to get the highest score. Or, in the case of the Brotherhood Submissions, you only need to grind a little more than the 6th highest player. Basically, I believe the reason you didn't have to grind so hard was the lax in competition.
If somehow, miraculously, the top 6 players in your Sub bracket decide to slug it out and grind like hell, you're definitely going to have to grind like hell too to get in top 5. Same case for the top 10 in main.
Now this is just an observation and a hypothesis. Not a complaint. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong any where here.
Rubber banding was meant to allow people who missed one refresh to catch up. It also gave people who did badly in earlier subs a better chance in later subs because they had a multiplier edge. But someone who grinds every mission out will always win.
Scaling helps fantastically with not grinding, and you covered it yourself. Those who win burn boosts, have better strategies and teams, play the game better, maybe have better luck. But nobody seems to complete every single iteration of every mission without running out of health packs. So players become selective based on their skills and capabilities and it stops being about grinding.
The brackets for the last PvE missions didn't have people with maxed rosters 100k points ahead of the pack because the missions were all easy mode. They weren't for anyone. But if you could beat 10 to 15 missions every 12 hours you could get top 30 in your main. You didn't need to beat 48 missions every 8 hours to be relevant.
If somehow, miraculously the top 5 players in my sub bracket decide to grind it out past 230 Ares and juggernaut then fair play to them. I hate to think what they are spending on health packs and boosts and I am not interested in buying my way to 'victory'.0 -
If you begin with the assumption that "I am going to do whatever the mechanics require to WIN every tournament," you don't really get to complain about the mechanics. I've had no trouble doing well enough in all the PVE events to build a respectable roster and make plenty of ISO without ever having been first or second in any tournament or even sub (I don't think).
Like how there's a sweet spot for *** covers around lvl 100 or so, and then you have to really decide whether to put in the exponentially more time and effort to push it up to 141? Treat tournaments the same way.0 -
Eddiemon wrote:mechgouki wrote:Eddiemon wrote:The scaling system is to avoid having to grind everything. A grind is fantastic for people who don't have jobs. The same people who don't pay anything towards the game. That's why they are putting in scaling, so short bursts of quality play are more value than constant grinding.
Correct me if I am wrong here. But wasn't that what rubberbanding was for? And bracketing too, most likely putting you in the same leaderboard where the same people have the same grind time.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong anywhere here. From what I know, scaling doesn't directly help you with not grinding. What it does is effectively wipe out the middle ground of the player group. The ones left behind are those low-tiers, the high levels, and those middle-tiers with Spider-man or a lot of dedication.
Your competition is reduced to the new players, the top players, and those who have the heart and means to battle those endless 230 mobs. Those stuck in the middle, will probably have to use Spider-man, burn a lot ISOs on boosts, and possibly spend no less than 15 minutes on every single battle as well. The end result is a lot less people to compete with you. Thus you grind less.
Those who want to compete for top place, either has to already have a strong team, a newbie team, or be willing to slug it out against enemies having much higher levels than them, burning a lot of boosts, using whatever cheap trick they can dig up (Spidey), and spend a colossal amount of time per battle, consuming almost every health pack they have.
You only need to grind a little more than the second highest player to get the highest score. Or, in the case of the Brotherhood Submissions, you only need to grind a little more than the 6th highest player. Basically, I believe the reason you didn't have to grind so hard was the lax in competition.
If somehow, miraculously, the top 6 players in your Sub bracket decide to slug it out and grind like hell, you're definitely going to have to grind like hell too to get in top 5. Same case for the top 10 in main.
Now this is just an observation and a hypothesis. Not a complaint. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong any where here.
Rubber banding was meant to allow people who missed one refresh to catch up. It also gave people who did badly in earlier subs a better chance in later subs because they had a multiplier edge. But someone who grinds every mission out will always win.
Scaling helps fantastically with not grinding, and you covered it yourself. Those who win burn boosts, have better strategies and teams, play the game better, maybe have better luck. But nobody seems to complete every single iteration of every mission without running out of health packs. So players become selective based on their skills and capabilities and it stops being about grinding.
The brackets for the last PvE missions didn't have people with maxed rosters 100k points ahead of the pack because the missions were all easy mode. They weren't for anyone. But if you could beat 10 to 15 missions every 12 hours you could get top 30 in your main. You didn't need to beat 48 missions every 8 hours to be relevant.
If somehow, miraculously the top 5 players in my sub bracket decide to grind it out past 230 Ares and juggernaut then fair play to them. I hate to think what they are spending on health packs and boosts and I am not interested in buying my way to 'victory'.
But why does that necessitate such severe community scaling? I'm sure there would be some people still complaining even if scaling was more gradual, but I think most people just don't want to be hit with teams 100 levels above them straight out of the gate. If a node goes up to level 230 after a player has beaten it 3 or 4 times, fine, but give players a chance to see the storyline, get 2 or 3 of the node completion rewards, some event progression rewards, don't just lock them out from playing!0 -
I don't think very many people would disagree with a slight toning down in the scaling.0
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Phantron wrote:
The problem with the so-called mid tier guys is that they're trying to pump all their iso8 into one character that's level 141, but unless that guy is Magneto, it's not going to be enough to matter.
I think that's probably most of it. If the character you've been focusing all your iso in isn't buffed, you're gonna have a bad time. Having a rooster that gives you flexibilty and making use of boostered characters helps a lot.0 -
In the first The Hulk event, I remember there were like 50 guys tied at exactly the same points because that was the maximum number of points available in the sub bracket. That is why they have scaling, so that you don't have 50 guys tied for first because it frankly doesn't make any sense in a allgedly competitive enviornment. The first sub bracket in The Hulk devolve into people trying to finish their last mission 5 seconds before the event ended due to the way tiebreaker goes to the last guy who finishes the mission. That kind of behavior would be actually pretty common if the missions don't scale up quickly.0
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Funfact:gamar wrote:jozier wrote:Yes, it was entirely broken in TaT. They fixed it considerably since.
The problem with TaT is that the same grinding mechanics were present and the scaling was completely uneven across the board - especially since there was no community scaling. Community scaling is a huge change that has benefited the high level players and I prefer it to the original version of scaling.
No, your previous complaint was that lvl 230 characters kept you locked out of the event. Now that they aren't a problem for you, you think they're great and everyone complaining about lvl 230 characters is an idiot.
There's nothing wrong with liking mechanics because you feel they give you an advantage. But at least be honest about it.
Jozie Complained all throughout the last PVE event and still came in 1st place. true story.0 -
gamar wrote:
But why does that necessitate such severe community scaling? I'm sure there would be some people still complaining even if scaling was more gradual, but I think most people just don't want to be hit with teams 100 levels above them straight out of the gate. If a node goes up to level 230 after a player has beaten it 3 or 4 times, fine, but give players a chance to see the storyline, get 2 or 3 of the node completion rewards, some event progression rewards, don't just lock them out from playing!
Because if everyone can beat it 3 or 4 times then you have to beat it 3 or 4 times to be competitive which is the definition of grind.
And if community scaling sets a mission at 230 it should mean lots of people are beating it which means you may be doing something wrong. Like with simulation where when you told people to stop using hulk and punisher and start using c storm and Daken the fights were suddenly easy. If community scaling works correctly it tells you that you are trying to push a square peg through a round hole and to choose a different hole.
The first time I faced 230s would have been way back in ISO hunt I think, where I was relying on cap, wolvie and modern widow. And that was against ragnarok in all his un nerfed glory.0 -
DD-The-Mighty wrote:
Funfact:gamar wrote:jozier wrote:Yes, it was entirely broken in TaT. They fixed it considerably since.
The problem with TaT is that the same grinding mechanics were present and the scaling was completely uneven across the board - especially since there was no community scaling. Community scaling is a huge change that has benefited the high level players and I prefer it to the original version of scaling.
No, your previous complaint was that lvl 230 characters kept you locked out of the event. Now that they aren't a problem for you, you think they're great and everyone complaining about lvl 230 characters is an idiot.
There's nothing wrong with liking mechanics because you feel they give you an advantage. But at least be honest about it.
Jozie Complained all throughout the last PVE event and still came in 1st place. true story.
Fun fact, I didn't complain at all about Brotherhood you **** moron.0 -
gamar wrote:jozier wrote:Yes, it was entirely broken in TaT. They fixed it considerably since.
The problem with TaT is that the same grinding mechanics were present and the scaling was completely uneven across the board - especially since there was no community scaling. Community scaling is a huge change that has benefited the high level players and I prefer it to the original version of scaling.
No, your previous complaint was that lvl 230 characters kept you locked out of the event. Now that they aren't a problem for you, you think they're great and everyone complaining about lvl 230 characters is an idiot.
There's nothing wrong with liking mechanics because you feel they give you an advantage. But at least be honest about it.
I was never locked out of the event. You can ask any regular, but I routinely finish top 5 in every PVE event, much like TaT. I was annoyed that every single battle I was facing was a level 230. Same with Heroic Oscorp. Because that was prior to community scaling. And unlike all the other people, I had been so successful at the events that I couldn't tank their ratings at all. Everyone else retreat-lost and managed to get down to 100. I had to grind out level 230 missions, and this was prior to the community scaling which meant grinding was still a factor.
Don't tell me what I complained about when I know myself better than you do.0 -
Only Internet Superheroes have the right to complain. The rest of us will get a kick in the **** for trying to do the same.0
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Impulse wrote:Phantron wrote:
The problem with the so-called mid tier guys is that they're trying to pump all their iso8 into one character that's level 141, but unless that guy is Magneto, it's not going to be enough to matter.
I think that's probably most of it. If the character you've been focusing all your iso in isn't buffed, you're gonna have a bad time. Having a rooster that gives you flexibilty and making use of boostered characters helps a lot.
I love it when he says Rooster0
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