The Hulk was my most favorite event, but....

I am at least 80% certain that they have full intentions of ruining this with their **** scaling effects.

I loved the Hulk event. It was doable, with enemies at various levels, some reaching up to 240, but certainly not for ALL the battles. 90% of the battles were actually something that were achievable, even without Thorverine at the pre-nerf state.

Best part is, everyone gets Hulk covers once enough points were reached. We reached the quota, we get one random Hulk cover, no questions asked.

I'm kinda worried that they will completely ruin this with the bloody scaling effect.

The devs have some kind of selective hearing super-power, that lets them ignore time again and again what we have been saying. WE DON'T WANT SCALING!!

The devs just don't seem to get it....
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Comments

  • While I agree on the scaling part, we don't know yet if they changed the mechanics for this particular event. I'm still having my fingers crossed.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think it's a bit premature to start the topics complaining about scaling in the current PvE event, I think we can put this on hold until tomorrow when we see what they actually do. Who knows, there might be a slim chance that they actually tweaked scaling to a reasonable form.
  • Perhaps. There is a chance that they might actually make it reasonable this time.

    But from their previous performance, it is more likely that they will ignore our legitimate concerns, and go on ahead with a **** scaling system, despite the plain blatant obvious fact that we have in no uncertain terms, told them time after time again, WE DO NOT WANT SCALING.

    Every change they made, they do it despite our countless pleas.

    The devs need to understand. If you want to earn the customers' money, you have to give them what they WANT. NOT what you THINK they NEED.

    And we don't WANT or NEED a scaling system!
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    mechgouki wrote:
    Perhaps. There is a chance that they might actually make it reasonable this time.

    But from their previous performance, it is more likely that they will ignore our legitimate concerns, and go on ahead with a **** scaling system, despite the plain blatant obvious fact that we have in no uncertain terms, told them time after time again, WE DO NOT WANT SCALING.

    Not really true. One thing I've noticed with scaling in place is that the game got a lot less grindy (which was actually one of their goals for having this scaling in place). I remember during the last Hulk event I had to grind every single mission down to 1 point in order to stay competitive. Compare that to the last tournament, where you had to grind significantly less in order to achieve the same result because of scaling making missions too annoying to grind for everyone. While something like TaT's mission structure could arguably get the same result without scaling, I'd like to see where Demiurge wants to take scaling: there is a chance that it ends up doing well and satisfying everyone.
  • eidehuaeidehua Posts: 521 Critical Contributor
    The devs understand. If you want to earn the customers' money, you have to give them what they WANT. AND what you THINK they NEED.

    And we WANT and NEED a scaling system!
  • Please, no. While I absolutely loved The Hulk event, any hint at scaling will destroy that fond memory forever.

    WE DON'T WANT SCALING!!
  • Whats wrong with grinding? I'm not one to grind myself but if people want to grind to win, why cant they? I think its worse that a new player with a very low roster can compete against a top tier roster.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Madjam wrote:
    Whats wrong with grinding? I'm not one to grind myself but if people want to grind to win, why cant they? I think its worse that a new player with a very low roster can compete against a top tier roster.

    Two separate things here:

    1. Allowing new players to compete against people with top tier rosters is healthy for the game, as it grows the playerbase by engaging these newer players in these events. I think what you're complaining about is that newer players shouldn't be able to trivially complete missions that mid-tier/end-game people have more difficulty with. They should have a harder time with these missions, but still be competitive enough to earn the 2* covers and maybe 1 3* cover, and this can still be accomplished by tweaking scaling.

    2. No one likes grinding. Think about it this way: would you rather grind 3 level 1 enemies 1000 times, or grind 3 level 230 enemies 8 times? While exaggerated, you can think of last Hulk event as the level 1 enemies and the last event as the 230 enemies. I much prefer to spend less time on more challenging fights than more time on trivial fights, and I think that's what scaling was trying to accomplish. It obviously wasn't perfect for the entire player base, but give them some time to get it tuned and it'll probably end up much better than the PvE events we had before.

    I also think that people were fond of the Hulk event due to that free Hulk cover in the middle of it, while forgetting the grinding that came with doing the subs.
  • eidehua wrote:
    The devs understand.

    WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
    eidehua wrote:
    And we WANT and NEED a scaling system!

    Still wrong. But not as wrong as the last one.

    YOU want a scaling system. The rest of us don't.
  • One thing I've noticed with scaling in place is that the game got a lot less grindy (which was actually one of their goals for having this scaling in place). I remember during the last Hulk event I had to grind every single mission down to 1 point in order to stay competitive. Compare that to the last tournament, where you had to grind significantly less in order to achieve the same result because of scaling making missions too annoying to grind for everyone.
    Maybe it's because I don't have a top roster, for me the game got much more grindy. Sure, I had to grind every single mission down to 1 point to stay competitive, used to take about an hour. Most were fast fights, actually made me feel like I was getting stronger. Fun. Now I only have to clear each mission once, maybe some twice. Takes at least twice as long as before, with every mission feeling like a prolonged exercise in repetition. Boring.

    I'd go for static scaling any time. Take the hulk missions as they were, with encounters set to a static broad range of levels. Each clear should increase the level by a static amount, each reset decrease the level by the same static amount. So an easy encounter might start at level 50 for full points and progress to level 80 for 75% points, level 110 for 50% points, level 140 for 25% points, level 170 for a single points. Encounter stays at level 170 for as much single point grinding as you want, once points reset it's back to level 30. No side effects on other encounters. Now there's a way of actually feeling like achieving something, eventually being able to clear an additional round of encounters would feel like major progress to me.
  • 1. Allowing new players to compete against people with top tier rosters is healthy for the game, as it grows the playerbase by engaging these newer players in these events. I think what you're complaining about is that newer players shouldn't be able to trivially complete missions that mid-tier/end-game people have more difficulty with. They should have a harder time with these missions, but still be competitive enough to earn the 2* covers and maybe 1 3* cover, and this can still be accomplished by tweaking scaling.

    Nobody has anything against new players being able to compete and participate in events.

    What I have a problem against is how that scaling system is giving anyone who has a mid to high roster a tinykitty hell.

    There is nothing fun about fighting lv 230 mobs with your lv 85-100 teams EVERY SINGLE FIGHT. In the previous events where enemy levels were a static constant value, we only see the 240 mobs in one level, and that one was optional round, and it was even exciting. To have it in every single **** fight is something else altogether.

    This is made worse by the fact that they have taken our Thorverine, and will soon take away the only stunlock option we have against them.

    No one is saying the newbies shouldn't play. I'm saying the old peeps shouldn't have to suffer their **** banged by 230 mobs!
    2. No one likes grinding. Think about it this way: would you rather grind 3 level 1 enemies 1000 times, or grind 3 level 230 enemies 8 times? While exaggerated, you can think of last Hulk event as the level 1 enemies and the last event as the 230 enemies. I much prefer to spend less time on more challenging fights than more time on trivial fights, and I think that's what scaling was trying to accomplish. It obviously wasn't perfect for the entire player base, but give them some time to get it tuned and it'll probably end up much better than the PvE events we had before.

    I also think that people were fond of the Hulk event due to that free Hulk cover in the middle of it, while forgetting the grinding that came with doing the subs.

    Here's the thing. Some of us will be dead by the second 230 hunt, let alone 8 times.

    Grinding something that we can actually handle is way better than not even finishing a single round of what instant-gibs us every single time we try it.
  • I meant grinding in comparison to not being able to play at all against lvl 230 enemies. Personally i like to play when i feel like it. If i have a wall of 230's i cant play when i want to. Whats the point in fighting a battle i cant win, therefore i cant play.

    With regards to new players, no they should not be able to compete with people of higher tiers for the same rewards. There should be level sectioned groups. I would rather compete against and lose against someone around my level than against a 1* roster player.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    mechgouki wrote:
    1. Allowing new players to compete against people with top tier rosters is healthy for the game, as it grows the playerbase by engaging these newer players in these events. I think what you're complaining about is that newer players shouldn't be able to trivially complete missions that mid-tier/end-game people have more difficulty with. They should have a harder time with these missions, but still be competitive enough to earn the 2* covers and maybe 1 3* cover, and this can still be accomplished by tweaking scaling.

    Nobody has anything against new players being able to compete and participate in events.

    What I have a problem against is how that scaling system is giving anyone who has a mid to high roster a tinykitty hell.

    There is nothing fun about fighting lv 230 mobs with your lv 85-100 teams EVERY SINGLE FIGHT. In the previous events where enemy levels were a static constant value, we only see the 240 mobs in one level, and that one was optional round, and it was even exciting. To have it in every single **** fight is something else altogether.

    This is made worse by the fact that they have taken our Thorverine, and will soon take away the only stunlock option we have against them.

    No one is saying the newbies shouldn't play. I'm saying the old peeps shouldn't have to suffer their **** banged by 230 mobs!
    2. No one likes grinding. Think about it this way: would you rather grind 3 level 1 enemies 1000 times, or grind 3 level 230 enemies 8 times? While exaggerated, you can think of last Hulk event as the level 1 enemies and the last event as the 230 enemies. I much prefer to spend less time on more challenging fights than more time on trivial fights, and I think that's what scaling was trying to accomplish. It obviously wasn't perfect for the entire player base, but give them some time to get it tuned and it'll probably end up much better than the PvE events we had before.

    I also think that people were fond of the Hulk event due to that free Hulk cover in the middle of it, while forgetting the grinding that came with doing the subs.

    Here's the thing. Some of us will be dead by the second 230 hunt, let alone 8 times.

    Grinding something that we can actually handle is way better than not even finishing a single round of what instant-gibs us every single time we try it.

    I understand your frustration, as I don't like having to suffer through 230s either and know that scaling is broken for the mid-tier players that can't actually win against them, but this doesn't mean that scaling is 100% broken and will never be fixed. I realized during the beginning of last event that I was actually having more fun fighting the level ~120s than I was stomping through the level 40s before scaling (before they scaled up to 230 at least). The point is that just because scaling has some problems now doesn't mean that it will never be good in the future. Give the devs some more time to work the kinks out, as I'm sure they didn't intend the veterans to be facing a wall of 230s all the time.
  • I'm sure they didn't intend the veterans to be facing a wall of 230s all the time.

    You have more confidence than I do. Watching at all the changes that they have done, I'm almost certain that they're just trying to troll us.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    mechgouki wrote:
    I'm sure they didn't intend the veterans to be facing a wall of 230s all the time.

    You have more confidence than I do. Watching at all the changes that they have done, I'm almost certain that they're just trying to troll us.

    I doubt alienating their most dedicated players would be good for the growth of the game and their revenue stream.
  • eidehuaeidehua Posts: 521 Critical Contributor
    mechgouki wrote:
    eidehua wrote:
    The devs understand.

    WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
    eidehua wrote:
    And we WANT and NEED a scaling system!

    Still wrong. But not as wrong as the last one.

    YOU want a scaling system. The rest of us don't.

    Lol, I just took what you said and changed a few words. Argument sounds ridiculous doesn't it? If they can get scaling correct, I'd think it would work out. Sure, there are a lot of kinks to work out, and perhaps community based scaling may be off (I'd prefer individual based scaling), but hopefully the devs can adjust it well.
  • eidehuaeidehua Posts: 521 Critical Contributor
    mechgouki wrote:
    I'm sure they didn't intend the veterans to be facing a wall of 230s all the time.

    You have more confidence than I do. Watching at all the changes that they have done, I'm almost certain that they're just trying to troll us.

    I'm almost certain they're trying to help us.
    The scaling system has actually been improving.
  • The point is that just because scaling has some problems now doesn't mean that it will never be good in the future. Give the devs some more time to work the kinks out, as I'm sure they didn't intend the veterans to be facing a wall of 230s all the time.
    There is no reason to believe they don't intend the veterans to be facing that wall of 230s all the time. Going by the official responses we got so far, scaling is working exactly as intended, no change planned. It also makes perfect sense from a business point of view, as much as I'd hope for those kinks to get worked out I'm very convinced they are supposed to stay.
  • mechgouki wrote:
    I'm sure they didn't intend the veterans to be facing a wall of 230s all the time.

    You have more confidence than I do. Watching at all the changes that they have done, I'm almost certain that they're just trying to troll us.

    I doubt alienating their most dedicated players would be good for the growth of the game and their revenue stream.

    Your point being? That they won't do it?

    Anyway, it only took them 4 months to implement a respec system. But that's still good news. So maybe they will get this scaling fixed. Eventually.

    Still, I would prefer no scaling to a "less-broken scaling" any day of the week.
  • NemekNemek Posts: 1,511
    Moghwyn wrote:
    The point is that just because scaling has some problems now doesn't mean that it will never be good in the future. Give the devs some more time to work the kinks out, as I'm sure they didn't intend the veterans to be facing a wall of 230s all the time.
    There is no reason to believe they don't intend the veterans to be facing that wall of 230s all the time. Going by the official responses we got so far, scaling is working exactly as intended, no change planned. It also makes perfect sense from a business point of view, as much as I'd hope for those kinks to get worked out I'm very convinced they are supposed to stay.


    I'd be curious as to where you're pulling the "working exactly as intended, no change planned" quote from.
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