Missing the new system already on pve

ZootSax

While the new system has some benefits (especially for more casual players, like myself), imagine if you had to play it during a new character release in Venom Bomb? Every node was already an initial bad board away from a full team wipe for my anti-goon A team after 1-2 clears already in Unstable Iso-8. A genuinely hard event with higher than usual progression targets would be damn near impossible in the new system.

I'll be the first to admit the current PVE system is very flawed, but I just don't understand the argument that the test system isn't, at the very least, just as bad. At least for me, the current system lets me use more of my roster. I've already used more team combinations in the first two clears of the Juggernaut Heroic than I did in the entire Unstable Iso-8 event...and I'm missing ~1/3 of the available characters in the heroic. We shall see...

Xenoberyll

The only thing likable about the new system is the intended schedule independence.
Execution et all is bad though.

jobob

Old:
-Hated the scheduling

New:
-Hated the scaling

They need to have a baby, with Old scaling, New scheduling. All I care about is hitting the progression, but I can sympathize with the hardcore PVEers, so find a way to cut them some slack and not require 7+ clears.

fmftint

Ultimately the top players will be the top players in either format.
The players for the new format need to take off the full points any time blinders and see that you are paying for it in increased scaling across the board. And getting the same rewards as you were when Trivial nodes were capped at 70

wymtime

revskip wrote:

I've been routinely hitting top 50 in the old system. With an okay board I was still having to use health packs or go to different teams of the same relative strength. Which was one of the reasons I made my 2*s as numerous as I did rather than jumping right in to the 3* transition. I did play a lot, but I was also having to play a lot in the old system. I do think top 10 will have to play more to to stay top 10, I don't see a problem with that. If they can't handle it there isn't going to be a vacuum. New players will take their place by grinding it just a little more.

I fully understand that the new system will present bigger difficulties as my roster grows. That is the point of most games. I play chess competitively online. As I have become better at the game the site I use steps up the level of opponent I face. There are definitely hard walls that I run into but as I improve so does my opposition. That is part of the fun. Facing more and more challenging people. Or in the case of this game more and more difficult opposition in terms of the teams you face. I've played with a 4* roster on a friend's account I fully understand that there is a time element to some of the tougher matches and that there is a fair amount of team shrink that goes along with it. That really isn't that different than when my roster only had 2 or 3 characters I could use, as you jump through the transitions I am sure there are several such tipping points where you are behind the 8 ball.

No matter what format is used there are going to be some players who like it and others that don't. I'm sorry my experience doesn't mesh with yours but neither of our experiences is "the one true gospel". For me right now, I prefer the new system, I prefer a system that rewards people playing more over a system that rewards people who play at predetermined times with more efficiency.

first I want to say I completely respect your opinion and actually value the fact that you are speeking up for the positive impact that you have had from the new system. What I ask is that you take a look at the view from a player with a much bigger scaling roster. In order to compete for the same prize in the same bracket I have to to spend more time clearing and play with a more limited roster because of scaling yet I have significantly more championed characters. The new system actually promotes grinding the nodes more for placement. In the Heroic I have made 3 clears in round 1 and none of my clears have been ideal. I will do one more clear and be comfortably in top 50. In the new system I would not be top 100. So in the new system I have to grind more at harder nodes and use more resources to do so compared to others. In PVP players get capped based on their roster. PVE is suppose to be a even playing field. The new system is not there yet and has some big issues. They have fixed things for lower level players and created issues for higher developed rosters.

simonsez

fmftint wrote:

Ultimately the top players will be the top players in either format.

Here's one that won't. There's no way in hell I'm playing 6-7 hours in a row in the middle of the night.

Slarow

Polares wrote:

Do you undertand that if you play in the old system exactly as you play in the new system you will get the exact same results when not playing for top50 ?!?!? (so be top100, even get the 25 CPs most of the time)

Try in this event if you dont believe me. Play once when the sub starts and 4 or 5 times every node 2h before the end of the sub.

Ps: Man, you should think before you write...

Do you understand that "play in the old system exactly as you play in the new system" and "Play once when the sub starts and 4 or 5 times every node 2h before the end of the sub." are two completely different things?

If you had read his opening statement:

Don't like going back on schedule again. Was fun to play anytime without loss points

You would have understood that.

Being able to play nodes 6 times at any time during the 24 hour period, either all at the same time or as time allows, without having to worry about when exactly to play, is the reason why many of us prefer the new PVE format.

simonsez

Slarow wrote:

If you had read his opening statement:

Don't like going back on schedule again. Was fun to play anytime without loss points

You would have understood that.

Being able to play nodes 6 times at any time during the 24 hour period, either all at the same time or as time allows, without having to worry about when exactly to play, is the reason why many of us prefer the new PVE format.

And what many of you don't understand is that if you're not clearing down to the timer when the sub opens, you ARE losing points, regardless of the warm fuzzies you're all feeling when you see the words "full points".

Please, just go play Juggs Heroic exactly like you played the tests. Clear all the nodes whenever you feel like it. The end result isn't going to be any different.

sc0ville

simonsez wrote:

Slarow wrote:

If you had read his opening statement:

Don't like going back on schedule again. Was fun to play anytime without loss points

You would have understood that.

Being able to play nodes 6 times at any time during the 24 hour period, either all at the same time or as time allows, without having to worry about when exactly to play, is the reason why many of us prefer the new PVE format.

And what many of you don't understand is that if you're not clearing down to the timer when the sub opens, you ARE losing points, regardless of the warm fuzzies you're all feeling when you see the words "full points".

Please, just go play Juggs Heroic exactly like you played the tests. Clear all the nodes whenever you feel like it. The end result isn't going to be any different.

Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown.

bobbyfish

hitting progression usually is a fairly safe T100 for me. This test, hitting progression got me T500. If there are more points available, they are available for everyone else as well, don't get fooled into thinking the lack of point decay helps.

Yes, it was nice to hit progression playing very casually, but this was mainly due to the amount of goon nodes. If I can no longer casually earn T100 finishes, T50 with a little bit extra, PVE becomes much less worth my time.

jobob

In the new system, you can only lose points if you play a node more than 7 times, regardless of schedule.

In the old system, you can lose points if you play the node more than 1 time, though you have 8 hours margin for error to do 3 clears for full points.


...That's a pretty wide gap that I think a lot of people are overlooking. Maybe there is room for something in between? Like 2-3 clears at full points, and then 18h to build back to full?

I want to see those non T50 players get to play on their own schedule, but it's not right to expect those T5 players to do 7 clears at zero hour and then grind the last 6.

carrion_pigeons

I want the old system's variety in scaling and limited requirements to get progression, with the new system's lack of point decay. Is that an impossibility? Why?

cyineedsn

I'm curious to see what would happen if it did go live, what the cutoff will be in terms of time commitment to get T100.

Will it be the casual dream of just doing 3-4 clears whenever during the day? Will it be doing 6-7 full clears anytime? Will it be doing 6-7 full clears at the start plus grind at the end?

For the record in the old system I generally do 3.5-4 clears at sub-optimal intervals (ranging between from 6-10 hours between, but hardly ever actually 8) for t100 in most events. So anything that ends up requiring me to play any more than that, is a big booooo for me.

simonsez

jobob wrote:

In the new system, you can only lose points if you play a node more than 7 times, regardless of schedule.

That's not true. The quicker you clear down the timer, the more points will be available at the final grind. So for every minute that goes by with a node that says "full points", yes, you are ultimately losing points.

fmftint

simonsez wrote:

jobob wrote:

In the new system, you can only lose points if you play a node more than 7 times, regardless of schedule.

That's not true. The quicker you clear down the timer, the more points will be available at the final grind. So for every minute that goes by with a node that says "full points", yes, you are ultimately losing points.

Yup, he's not accounting for point recharge

Twysta

JVReal

Same old ****. People like the new system, they're stupid for liking it. People get joy out of a mobile game and people tell you that you aren't supposed to be having fun.

It's just kind of irritating that some people can't let other people enjoy the frickin' game without telling them they're wrong for liking it.

I've enjoyed both the scaling, and the lack of time constraints. I actually played more this event because there was no timer telling me I couldn't and I wasn't penalized in points for playing when I had time.

I don't care what the tinykitty you say, I enjoyed it more and it was scaled appropriately for my roster.

My desire to not see a timer is no more crazy than some people's desire to see the timer as soon as they can. You can can play the new system throughout the day and all it will cost you is points. I can play the old system in bunches whenever I want and all it will cost me is points. You don't want to lose points, I don't want to lose points. We are more alike than you think. It's just human nature that we care about our own experience more than everyone elses.

I will play PVE regardless, but I will enjoy it more and likely play more under a hybrid of the new system THAT STILL NEEDS MORE ADJUSTING to be more palatable to more people.

mpqr7

I think people will like it more if the scaling is lowered and prizes are increased for those with better rosters.

Some nodes scale fine and some are absolute nightmares when scaled.

Soldier/general nodes are usually fine.

Muscle/Assassin nodes can be nightmares.

Symbiote/Carnage nodes are unbearable.

Dark Avenger nodes are doable but so incredibly repetitive. We have hundreds of characters.. I'm sick of fighting the same 10 or so.

Polares

Slarow wrote:

Polares wrote:

Do you undertand that if you play in the old system exactly as you play in the new system you will get the exact same results when not playing for top50 ?!?!? (so be top100, even get the 25 CPs most of the time)

Try in this event if you dont believe me. Play once when the sub starts and 4 or 5 times every node 2h before the end of the sub.

Ps: Man, you should think before you write...

Do you understand that "play in the old system exactly as you play in the new system" and "Play once when the sub starts and 4 or 5 times every node 2h before the end of the sub." are two completely different things?

If you had read his opening statement:

Don't like going back on schedule again. Was fun to play anytime without loss points

You would have understood that.

Being able to play nodes 6 times at any time during the 24 hour period, either all at the same time or as time allows, without having to worry about when exactly to play, is the reason why many of us prefer the new PVE format.

It doesnt matter if it is at the end of the sub, I said it like that because it is closer to how you would play in the new format.

I will say it in a different way, play the nodes 5 times whenever you feel like it, all at the same time, with one hour difference, whenever you want, it doesn't matter, you are going to be between 75 to 150 in any event that it is not giving a new 4, exactly like in the new format. The points you loose are not going to make that much of a difference because the big majority of casual players don't play the nodes more than a couple of times.

The Viceroy Returns

The new system needs three things, trhen it will be better in every way to the current format:

1) REAL Trivial Nodes.
Bring back the three Trivial Nodes with enemies under Level 50. These should start at around the mid to high 30's like they do now, and scale up to make somewhere in the 60's, even for high end rosters with many champ'ed 4 stars.
I don't know what the dev's problem is with giving high end rosters Trivial Nodes to fight.
This would help cut down on the time investment in a big way, as well as let us use other characters on our roster instead of always having to use our A Team or A' Team for every PVE fight.

2) Scaling still needs work; still too high for high end rosters.
Bringing back real Trivial Nodes will help, but scaling in general is still too high for the other nodes. Scaling should be close to whatever is the current format uses.
At the end of the day, there needs to be a benefit to having a high end roster. Cause right now, players are punished for having high end rosters. The new system does not reward players for expanding and strengthening their roster. It's why "soft-cappers" exist. To purposefully play with under-leveled characters says the system is broken and needs work.
I actually thought they were trying to address this in more than just a surface level. Instead, the new system does the opposite, and encourages soft-capping even more.
Newbies to mid-tier rosters have it easier because the scaling isn't as harsh, and the fights don't take as long because they don't have to chew through 20K hit point enemies. They also have more usable characters available to them, because they aren't effectively locked out due to over-scaled nodes. High end rosters realistically only have a small selection of characters they can use, which made both of these tests feel more or less a Heroic.
In this Unstable ISO-8 test, I probably only used about 7 or 8 characters TOTAL out of my entire roster, and I'm only missing 2 5 star characters. So I should have had many options, but didn't due to scaling.
For me personally, scaling was slightly better compared with the EotS test, but still got pretty high.

3) Less clears required per node.
4 total instead of 7 sounds about right. Adjust the rewards to compensate because there would be less total clears.
The time investment under the new system needs to be AT LEAST as much as the current format, and ideally it should be less. But as it stands, with both tests it was easily at least DOUBLE. This msut be addressed, as it affects all players in the progression curve, regardless of roster strength.
PVE rewards need an overhaul anyway. The Crit Boost & Standard Token should be replaced with ISO rewards, and the ISO rewards should be higher (even if only increased by about 20% it's still something) across the board to keep up with the demands of the current game.
These have been in place since the launch of the game, and haven't been updated along with the ISO needed.


If these 3 things are done right, the new system can work.
Just my thoughts after two PVE tests.