Official Balance Changes Feedback Thread [Provide Details]

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  • Arondite
    Arondite Posts: 1,188 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Warbringa wrote:
    The reduction in abilities damage in many 3* characters is a side effect that I didn't anticipate. I thought championing was great until I realize now that many of my characters are no where near as good as they use to be as a player attempting to transition into 4* land. While I welcome the quick one time increase in LT tokens for championing maxed 3*, I have found the decrease in ability power (Dr. Doom purple especially) to be a huge loss as he is one of my go two purple users along with Blade and IF. I am concerned that now my transition to 4* land may be even longer as I run into plenty of 4* teams on PvP (who seemed to benefit from the changes). While I haven't compared numbers yet, 3* Thor seems less impressive after using him recently, was his ability damages significantly nerfed as well?

    Yes, boosted Thor was positively neutered. One of the worst that I've seen yet, actually. It's hard for me to remember precisely, but I want to say his yellow and green did about 4K and 7K+3.5K+3.K. Now, boosted + championed he was getting like 3.1K and 5.8K+2.9K+2.9K. Just not good.
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,290 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Arondite wrote:
    Warbringa wrote:
    The reduction in abilities damage in many 3* characters is a side effect that I didn't anticipate. I thought championing was great until I realize now that many of my characters are no where near as good as they use to be as a player attempting to transition into 4* land. While I welcome the quick one time increase in LT tokens for championing maxed 3*, I have found the decrease in ability power (Dr. Doom purple especially) to be a huge loss as he is one of my go two purple users along with Blade and IF. I am concerned that now my transition to 4* land may be even longer as I run into plenty of 4* teams on PvP (who seemed to benefit from the changes). While I haven't compared numbers yet, 3* Thor seems less impressive after using him recently, was his ability damages significantly nerfed as well?

    Yes, boosted Thor was positively neutered. One of the worst that I've seen yet, actually. It's hard for me to remember precisely, but I want to say his yellow and green did about 4K and 7K+3.5K+3.K. Now, boosted + championed he was getting like 3.1K and 5.8K+2.9K+2.9K. Just not good.

    Thanks for the confirmation Arondite. When I was playing 3* Thor, I had to do a double take because I thought I was playing 2* Thor due to the significantly lower damage and the character models are close in appearance. Only when I looked at health did I realize sadly, yes it was 3* Thor.

    I know someone else mentioned it but with them reducing 3* match and power abilities, are they going to reduce goons/minions strengths as well? Playing the Hand ninjas, it sure didn't seem like they scaled them back at all. If they don't adjust goons (and Gorgon - whose red ability is ridiculous), they have just made life way more difficult for all 3* players....
  • Sandwichboy
    Sandwichboy Posts: 193 Tile Toppler
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    Boosted 3* cap is also massively weakened from what he used to be. I can't recall the exact numbers, but at 260 previously he was doing over 6k with his red and now at 265 he's doing 4900. His protect tiles are also reduced by at least 30% from what I remember. I really hope the intent wasn't to make fully championed 3* characters the new version of boosted 166 characters because that's going to be a very long way off for most people.
  • Skorche
    Skorche Posts: 47
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    Okay so when I read the initial post about the balancing it said that there was an increase at lower levels and flattening at mid levels and no change at higher levels. I assumed for a 3 star that meant that no changes at 166 which is its max lvl. I'm assuming that meant its maxed champion level.

    This balancing suffers from a lack of communication. I would've really liked to have have more then just one line explaining stuff like ohh moonstone is a tank and at lvl 155 has 10876 even though rags at lvl 168 only has 10836. that just seems odd to me that a lvl 155 tank has more then a lvl 168 tank.

    This game has some strategy and knowing how characters will scale so I know what teams to bring helps. Its hard for me to know what teams are going to be effective now. Its seems like I'm relearning what to bring and who's effective against what. It used to be I'll bring x because they can one shot y now its like if I bring x they can two shot y but that keeps y in the game too long and bogs me down and ohhh look it gave the opposing team enough time to take down z and grr...

    Long story short I like champion I would have been more happy if these changes were introduced by more then one vague sentence.
  • CaptainFreaky
    CaptainFreaky Posts: 451 Mover and Shaker
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    3* HT is not producing nearly as much damage on his fireball as he was boosted pre-R91. He is only doing 3968 damage at level 240 - he used to do waaay over 4K before. This makes HT now a back bench player at best. He is more annoyance than any kind of real threat in PVP with the changes to ability damage.

    Now...math out of the way.

    Why are you mods deleting posts from this thread? Looking at Jamie's instructions below to say "what you like, what don't you like, suggestions, etc" - it seems that SOMEONE is being very handed or arbitrary with what they consider to be a suggestion, etc. And at least for me, I'm not even getting a courtesy PM saying that you deleted my posts and why.

    And lastly, can we PLEASE get someone to confirm what the actual boost bug is that won't be fixed until R94? I honestly have no idea where to put my ISO without understanding that? If 3* are going to be permantly nerfed when boosted, then I want to know that and not put any more effort into them. But if this is going to be fixed in R94 or whatever, then I can have a bit of patience and wait it out. But having ZERO ZIP ZILCH communication, while sadly common with Demiurge and D3 these days, is getting in the way of me making any kind of intelligent choice about how to invest in the game going forward.

    Jamie Madrox wrote:

    We'd like to get your feedback on your thoughts on the characters that you've noticed have been balanced. What do you like, what don't you like, suggestions, etc. We can't guarantee that it will mean any major changes, but we have it on good authority that this thread will be monitored. Please be specific with hard numbers where possible. The Characters forum still has the pre-balance stats so refer to them where necessary.

    So give us your honest opinions and please keep it civil and constructive. Last thing I want is Malcrof locking my thread.
  • xellessanova
    xellessanova Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
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    If I'm allowed I would like to thank King Dreadnaugt because collecting this data would be nearly impossible without him. The question is: boosted characters (championed or not) appear to do significantly less ability damage than before, but is this because boosting causes a bug or because the ability scaling is now very different?

    A typical casual-hardcore player who had hoarded tokens for a couple months would have maybe collected 5-6 covers of a single 3* at this point. If they got D3 to break down a dupe Iron Fist, maybe they would have a Level 180 IF. Only a player buying multiple 40-packs and such would be able to show the jump in power levels over 70+ extra covers on a mediocre 3*.

    Data

    New Champion (non-buffed) 238 Psylocke RK 1318 base, 263 Strike, 317 Attack

    So presumably New 240 Psylocke RK 1323 base, 264 Strike, 320 Attack
    Base damage 16.97% increase, 16.81% Strike, 18.51% Attack

    Old Boosted 240 Psylocke - RK 1602 base, 320 Strike, 385 Attack
    Base damage 41.64% increase, 41.6% Strike, 42.6% Attack

    Ability damage appears to be significantly lower. Like 25% lower. This is a huge, huge nerf and not acceptable. Psylocke needed a balance pass before because her Red and Black were underpowered and her Blue was unusable.
    xellessanova wrote:
    208 Psylocke RK 1240 base, 247 Strike, 296 Attack
    166 Psylocke RK 1131 base, 226 Strike, 270 Attack
    9.6% increase base damage, 9.3% Strike increase, 9.63% Attack increase over 42 levels
  • blinktag
    blinktag Posts: 157 Tile Toppler
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    It feels like Daredevil's trap damage got a nerf too, especially his self match trap. Maybe I'm used to only playing him featured, but he's quite a bit weaker in the current heroic than I remember.
  • Druss
    Druss Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
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    If it ain't broke don't try to fix it!

    The 2 & 3*'s were working fine - championing is a great way to close the gap between power levels - sure some 2*/3* are weaker than others but we are all used to that - to make them all weaker overall defeats the whole point of championing in the first place.

    Leaving all the 3* as they were & allowing them to scale naturally past 166 (possible with diminishing returns) seems to me the way to go - again there is going to be stronger 3* maxed than some 4* but once 4* get to 370 expect this gap to stay as it is now. The gap will narrow initially then widen again.

    The one gap that does need addressing is the 4-5*. 3 maxed 4* have no chance vs maxed 5*. This does not fit in with any of the other power levels.
  • udonomefoo
    udonomefoo Posts: 1,630 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Kamala felt REALLY WEAK in her own pvp event.

    She was boosted to 264 for me (I'll be maxing her this week from 150, which now feels like a waste of iso) and I think I used her green three times the whole event. In prior KK events, I'd be prioritizing purple & green all the way and blasting with that aoe. Not anymore.

    Feels like it got nerfed by about 25%.
  • chamber44
    chamber44 Posts: 324 Mover and Shaker
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    udonomefoo wrote:
    Kamala felt REALLY WEAK in her own pvp event.

    She was boosted to 264 for me (I'll be maxing her this week from 150, which now feels like a waste of iso) and I think I used her green three times the whole event. In prior KK events, I'd be prioritizing purple & green all the way and blasting with that aoe. Not anymore.

    Feels like it got nerfed by about 25%.
    i agree. she felt weaker, Human Torch's red seemed way weaker, and Mysique's black also seemed low. She used to be able to one-shot almost all the 3's when she was boosted.
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,296 Chairperson of the Boards
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    udonomefoo wrote:
    Kamala felt REALLY WEAK in her own pvp event.

    She was boosted to 264 for me (I'll be maxing her this week from 150, which now feels like a waste of iso) and I think I used her green three times the whole event. In prior KK events, I'd be prioritizing purple & green all the way and blasting with that aoe. Not anymore.

    Feels like it got nerfed by about 25%.

    25% is pretty much the amount I've been noticing lacking on the ability damage of all my buffed and maxed 3*s.
  • ErikPeter
    ErikPeter Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
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    Re boosted power levels, boosted characters are much less dangerous. I still skip matches against boosted maxed 3 stars out of habit, but after a while I think we'll get used to the new numbers.

    However it does have the effect of slowing down matches, and might've crossed a threshold where PVP may no longer be worth the effort. Fighting for 52nd place, a Kamala champion cover at 800, against a top ten all 1500+, was close to tedious, and now takes maybe 25% longer.

    Having some 4* in progress means I really noticed the mid-tier effectiveness drop (210 Hulkbuster) but that does encourage me to max him sooner to get back to his old effectiveness. Now at 230 and still waiting to catch up ( let's hope for a blue cover drop). Again, since the changes are across the board it didn't feel like a nerf. Hopefully it means once I hit 270 I should be more effective than those boosted-to-240 166s, which is nice.
  • optimus2861
    optimus2861 Posts: 1,232 Chairperson of the Boards
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    My boosted QS, 5/5/3 build (that's how the covers fell), level 200-something, does less than 500 damage on his green.

    I know part of that is the boosted-character bug (which we're stuck with for what, 4 more weeks? 8?), but that's beyond pathetic.
  • tanis3303
    tanis3303 Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
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    Boosted 3* cyclops is INCREDIBLY unimpressive after the champion nerf. His black at full power used to to somewhere in the neighborhood of 13,000 damage, now it's barely over 9,000. I understand that championing shouldn't give characters a huge, immediate jump in power, but surely the intent couldn't have been to cripple them either. But, we still don't know if this is intentional or part of the bug, since no one with that information wants to share it...
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
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    did we get any word on these issues of characters?
  • SolidQ
    SolidQ Posts: 247 Tile Toppler
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    Phaserhawk wrote:
    did we get any word on these issues of characters?
    Based on gauntlet 3* should be 325 lvl and damage same as before 290 lvl icon_e_wink.gif
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
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    glad I'm not in the middle of a 3-4 transition now. nerfing the boosted ability numbers of the 3*s makes it really hard when they have to constantly take on jeanbusters and the like, and good luck next week with boosted cyke and ice. boosted 4*s are now uber-powerful to help with taking on 5*s but the 3*s are only slightly better than 166s. they narrowed the power gap between 4s and 5s but widened the power gap between the 3s and 4s.
  • Linkster79
    Linkster79 Posts: 1,037 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Phaserhawk wrote:
    did we get any word on these issues of characters?

    It was confirmed a nearly a month ago that all changes to character balancing are as intended.

    There was a big announcement made and everything and I honestly don't know how every single forum users did not see it /sarcasm
  • CaptainFreaky
    CaptainFreaky Posts: 451 Mover and Shaker
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    Linkster79 wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    did we get any word on these issues of characters?

    It was confirmed a nearly a month ago that all changes to character balancing are as intended.

    There was a big announcement made and everything and I honestly don't know how every single forum users did not see it /sarcasm

    Yes - clearly we cannot grasp the details that the devs provided & we have been stumbling in the dark for a month because we lack the english skills to fully comprehend the changes.

    Clearly, we should have known what was and was not a bug - it was spelled out so well!! icon_rolleyes.gif

    Well - my weekly boosted 3* roster is now total tinykitty **** against the army of JeanBusters and the like. So... that's nice.
  • Calnexin
    Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I like the Quicksilver update. The change from a crit to a lock tile from his green power, combined with a decrease in the cost, make him much more versatile. It used to be nearly impossible to set off his blue bomb, but now he can force it if you fire off the green and follow with a black power match.

    I've been using him with Witch and CMag (all in the family motif) in the Gauntlet to good effect. He's suddenly useful, even unboosted.

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